This Is What Happens When Bigotry and Intolerance Is Promoted Nationaly.

tothetenthpower
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

. I don't think Putin is relevant in any way to this event.

He's encouraging them with his silence and his government policies.

There's a developing culture in Russia where it's OK to hurt people for their sexuality. It's the governments job to stand up to such violent shifts in public behavior when they are unfounded and violate the most basic of human rights.

~Tenth

I don't believe the sort of person that is willing to do this is worried about what the President of Russia thinks about it. Would it matter if Putin spoke out against it? Is it such a problem that Putin needs to address it or is it a rare occurrence and we are just shocked at the severity of the act?

For example: These sorts of things have happened in the US. Does that mean there is a growing culture behind it and if/when the President comments on it....is it not seen as just political posturing and not a real call to stop such acts?

suz62
reply to post by Cuervo

 

Why am I being attacked? I am not anti-gay. I've merely pointed out what nature clearly intended.

And I'm just disputing it. You pointed out in your first post that you condemned the action so I'm not attacking you.

I guess it's irrelevant to the thread but I did want to make it clear that I understand your stance on the violence.

Bigotry and Intolerance Is Promoted Nationaly

what do you mean by that?

Russian people are equally disgusted by this.

Helious

Cuervo

suz62

Cuervo

suz62
Some people are outraged by the failure of other humans to act as nature intended.

Nature did intend for a certain percentage of the population to be gay. Nature did not intend on humanity using their violence to dispense social "justice" towards others.

Social prejudice is not natural. Gay folks are.

I disagree. It is clear what nature intended by virtue of the design of the sexual organs. Procreation only occurs with a man and a woman. For whatever reason, gays don't follow the programming.

edit on 9/14/2013 by suz62 because: spelling

edit on 9/14/2013 by suz62 because: (no reason given)

Procreation is not always favorable for the survival of a species. There are 1,500 species that exhibit homosexual behavior in nature. I'm pretty convinced that the ratio of gay to straight people fluctuates according to need. Just like certain species will change genders if there is a demand for it.

Our collective biological human subconscious is much smarter than you give it credit for.

You can debate the nature of social interactions within the human and animal world and how species interact with each other but please don't try to insinuate that nature intended a gay world. It's ludicrous and comes off as patently desperate.

edit on 14-9-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)

What other definition of nature is there?! If it happens regularly in nature, it's not unnatural! Nature dictates its own rules, not religion or ignorance.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I think those Russian homophobes should take a good look at themselves in the mirror. Raping someone anally with a bottle sounds kinda "gay" to me. Maybe they should beat and rape themselves next.

reply to post by sheepslayer247

Would it matter if Putin spoke out against it? Is it such a problem that Putin needs to address it or is it a rare occurrence and we are just shocked at the severity of the act?

There have been several instances, reported of similar events happening in Russia. The Olympic fiasco is another. Here in the US and Canada and Europe, we may not actually pay attention to what our politicians say, but in places like Russia the rhetoric spewed by leaders seems to effect the population at large.

I mean these people were ok with being INTERVIEWED regarding this incident and acted like they were in the right. That's not a group of people afraid of repercussions. It seems like a group of people who expect to be rewarded, not punished by the authorities. That atmosphere only occurs when leadership fail to stand up and make their dissent known.

For example: These sorts of things have happened in the US. Does that mean there is a growing culture behind it and if/when the President comments on it....is it not seen as just political posturing and not a real call to stop such acts?

Gun control. Race. These are two issues that have dominated the US over the last few years. A lot of it fueled by the rhetoric, legislation and ideas of people in power, like the President.

~Tenth

VoidHawk

tothetenthpower
This is purely disgusting.
Please do not link to the video in question as it does violate the T&C.

Ya know whats just as disgusting? All those people who'll go looking for that vid to watch it!

ya know whats even more disgusting, the people who watch the people who go looking for that vid to watch them watch it! Then act like they're better than somebody.

Yeah, the behavior is atrocious, I don't condone it. At least is isn't as bad as in many Islamic countries where homosexuals are sentenced to death on a regular basis.

Having said that, a society deciding to reject homosexuals is very much that society's decision. How they reject them is a completely different matter. Russia, in effect, doesn't consider homosexuality as either beneficial or tolerable for many reasons. One of the main reasons is rate of reproduction. Russia has one of the lowest birth rates in Eurasia. From a societal standpoint, homosexuality not only doesn't help the problem, but makes it worse. For their society, as it is, to survive the next 100 years, it needs its birth rate to get better. Another reason is cultural integration. Almost every Russian man I have ever met is an alpha type personality. Not all, mind you, but most. Keep in mind too, that most of my experience has been with former military Russians, and a few civilians in Philadelphia and Moscow (vacation). So my outlook is probably a little skewed, but going by what others have mentioned, Russian men are tough hombres compared to American men, at least mentally. Soft men get picked on, and in many respects they are viewed with pity. There's no malice, it's just pecking order. Homosexuals are the ultimate beta male, and so get picked on terribly. From a societal standpoint, there is very little place for homosexuals in Russia. At least in the eyes of many over there.

As above, so below. On a large scale, rejection of a certain political practice, religious practice, sexual practice, whatever, is akin to asking someone to leave your home on a small scale because you find them so disagreeable. You can disagree on the grounds by which a person is rejected, society or home, as much as you like, and you can certainly disagree with the method, but you can't disagree with the right to do so.

Summary. Do I disagree with the harrassment, assault, and rape? Yep, absolutely. It's vile, illegal, and a host of other awful things.

Do I disagree with Russia not embracing homosexual society as a part of their culture? No, absolutely not. It's their choice as a country.

Not to derail the thread, but can I ask this? If the Olympics were to be held in say, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, would anyone have brought up the persecution of homosexuals and boycott it? I'm curious because I'm getting the distinct feeling that Russia, as the US's most vocal and political adversary at the moment, is being vilified at every turn to distract the US public from the fact that they acted ethically and morally in Syria where the US didn't.

Cuervo

Helious

Cuervo

suz62

Cuervo

suz62
Some people are outraged by the failure of other humans to act as nature intended.

Nature did intend for a certain percentage of the population to be gay. Nature did not intend on humanity using their violence to dispense social "justice" towards others.

Social prejudice is not natural. Gay folks are.

I disagree. It is clear what nature intended by virtue of the design of the sexual organs. Procreation only occurs with a man and a woman. For whatever reason, gays don't follow the programming.

edit on 9/14/2013 by suz62 because: spelling

edit on 9/14/2013 by suz62 because: (no reason given)

Procreation is not always favorable for the survival of a species. There are 1,500 species that exhibit homosexual behavior in nature. I'm pretty convinced that the ratio of gay to straight people fluctuates according to need. Just like certain species will change genders if there is a demand for it.

Our collective biological human subconscious is much smarter than you give it credit for.

You can debate the nature of social interactions within the human and animal world and how species interact with each other but please don't try to insinuate that nature intended a gay world. It's ludicrous and comes off as patently desperate.

edit on 14-9-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)

What other definition of nature is there?! If it happens regularly in nature, it's not unnatural! Nature dictates its own rules, not religion or ignorance.

Your definition of natural and what that actually means in my opinion is lacking. Bipolar disorder is "natural" in origin, would it be ok to advocate for those that beat their spouses, abuse their children because of a "natural" condition?

Not that I mean to associate the two identically. You must understand that with humans, being gay is something completely different than in animals. Our brains are much more complex and while we can choose artificial insemination, breeding just to breed, the animals can not, gay animals or species die off in short order. Nature, does not intend species to be gay any more than it intends a calf to be born with 2 heads or people to be born at high risk of cancer.

Seems like a harsh comparison? It's not. Believe what you want about my moral character, it makes no difference to me or the argument I present. I will go so far as to say that in animals being homosexual on occasion is probably normal, there are multiple reasons for this but to be homesexual by nature is a defect when solely relating to animals as they will not be able to reproduce and thus, die off.

The argument as it pertains to humans obviously is not one in a truly "natural" sense as we can transcend nature these days, can't we. It then becomes some moral issue that as of late is forced upon us. Your assertion that homosexuality and all that, that culture, way of life and acceptance of is nothing more than nature running it's course is offensive to science, evolution and my general sense of accountability.

There are arguments you could make, this isn't a good one.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Perhaps you may have a better knowledge of the people and culture in Russia. From what I can tell, this is still a rare occurrence and the people involved are unrepentant and unashamed of what they have done.

If there is a connection to the rhetoric and inaction of their leadership that quietly approves of such actions....then I have not heard/seen it.

In the end, I believe these are the actions of individuals and should be treated as such. Once we try to involve politics and such, I believe that we detract from the horror of what has occurred and what crazy people are capable of.

tothetenthpower
While Putin is busy telling Obama he should not attack Syria and playing 'peace maker' perhaps he should pay a little more close attention to what his own political party and people are encouraging among each other.
~Tenth

Really! So much for his newfound belief that God created all of us to be equal.

I'm still wondering how it is that anybody in their right mind is supposed to trust Putin with anything involving poison, poison gas, poison chemicals, whatever....

suz62

Cuervo

suz62
Some people are outraged by the failure of other humans to act as nature intended.

Nature did intend for a certain percentage of the population to be gay. Nature did not intend on humanity using their violence to dispense social "justice" towards others.

Social prejudice is not natural. Gay folks are.

I disagree. It is clear what nature intended by virtue of the design of the sexual organs. Procreation only occurs with a man and a woman. For whatever reason, gays don't follow the programming.

edit on 9/14/2013 by suz62 because: spelling

edit on 9/14/2013 by suz62 because: (no reason given)

Thank you, how ignorant to say nature intended for there to be guys. Now that is a crock. Gays and lesbians are a mistake of nature. If not we would be asexual in reproduction. No we were made the right way but that does not give anyone the right to judge or mistreat them.

Only God can judge them. I used to, I was angry because my sister is lesbians. One day I realized judgment isn't mine to disseminate.

Russia is a joke, half the chemical weapons Syria has came from Russia lol. Nothing kgb putrid does is legit, he lies and kills his own people too. Nothing but a little troll. Seriously what a scary joke he is.

The Bot

And the replies on this thread just prove my point. Look at how many times the word ignorant has been used. People just can't seem to say "I disagree and I really don't think you can change my mind. I will agree to disagree with you." Attacking and name calling seems to be the norm these days.

reply to post by dlbott

Thank you, how ignorant to say nature intended for there to be guys. Now that is a crock. Gays and lesbians are a mistake of nature.

I would say that is just as ignorant to claim to know what nature intended and to call your fellow human beings a mistake because of what they choose to do sexually.

Each and every one of us have different things that appeal to us sexually. There are some crazy things heterosexuals do to each other for satisfaction that I would consider much more unnatural than a homosexual relationship.

Side note: I believe the sort of mindset you have displayed is a bit dangerous and can breed hate towards our gay brothers and sisters.

Cuervo

sheepslayer247
What I don't understand is why do we always hear about these people lashing out at other people because they are gay, but then use foreign objects to "violate" them?

Same reason football players slap each other on the ass.

So football players are all closet homo's? Haha.. sounds pretty heterophobic to me.

sheepslayer247
reply to post by dlbott

 

Thank you, how ignorant to say nature intended for there to be guys. Now that is a crock. Gays and lesbians are a mistake of nature.

I would say that is just as ignorant to claim to know what nature intended and to call your fellow human beings a mistake because of what they choose to do sexually.

Each and every one of us have different things that appeal to us sexually. There are some crazy things heterosexuals do to each other for satisfaction that I would consider much more unnatural than a homosexual relationship.

Side note: I believe the sort of mindset you have displayed is a bit dangerous and can breed hate towards our gay brothers and sisters.

Hate to intrude into this conversation because it's not mine but.......... Lets not go ahead and confuse nature with human emotions because it doesn't add up. Homosexuality does in fact, conflict with nature. Because it occurs in nature does not inherently make it more normal than other psychological or physical birth defects.

Humans are different because we have morality. I view your mindset as a bit dangerous because you fail to use science, forward thinking or common sense and continue to perpetuate ridiculous arguments that evidence does not support. Your guilty in my opinion of wanting a bunch of emotional ass slappers to rush in and prove that your moral stance on the subject is sound because of unwavering support for the emotional morality of your post when at the end of the day, it's DOA on any other merit.

Rapeing a man with a bottle.....thats a pretty gay thing to do.

tothetenthpower

If the state allows and actively promotes hatred versus a group of people, then people in return will act hateful towards that group.

The same thing happens when 4% of the population plasters their lifestyle all over the televisions of the 96% who are repulsed by it.

reply to post by Bone75


If the STATE provides benefits between men and women because of marriage it must also do so with same sex unions because the state does not have the authority to pass moral judgement. I would fight to my death for the right of homosexuals to be granted the same rights as others under marriage and any state benefit program. No exceptions.

The state must treat all people equally. Justice is blind. The rest of society however, is up to debate.