ATS: IslamOnline: US Troops Reportedly Gassing Fallujah

I wonder if its the same gas we took from Saddam for gassing his own people..

I have a feeling those people miss Saddam

phreak: Does that also apply to tear gas / pepper spray / etc.? I can imagine this scenario:

Military target A) is surrounded by homes / marketplaces whatever and B) they're all full of civilians right now, so why don't we drop some tear gas canisters and come back in an hour for the bombing? Most of the civilians will probably head elsewhere, hence fewer civilian casualties....

leading to a use of pepper spray / tear gas / some other rapidly-dispersing (mostly) nonlethal chemical attack prior to a more heavy-duty assault. Not having any military experience I don't know if that's done or not, just tossing the idea out; if that's what's going in in Fallujah right now it looks like it's got the potential to turn into a big public relations backfire if the stories become widely believed.

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
As a former member of the US Army Chemical Corp, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the US military is NOT using chem weapons.

You can tell me that and I believe you 100%.... Try telling that to a muslim who has seen the original report from IslamOnline.

That is my exact point.

They will believe anything that is reported like this as fact.

This does not worry anyone?

It is quickly becoming a war of propaganda.. and the Islamic propaganda seems to be working when they will take any report at face value.

I wonder now how many Americans will read the first post in this thread and suspect that our own military would use chemical weapons in Iraq?

I hate to say it..But we live in a world fed by the media on all sides. There are too many who will believe anything that is reported as long as it comes from a source they have seen before... Hey if its on CNN or Fox it must be true right?

It is the same way in the Islamic world with Al Jazeera and Islam Online.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
You can tell me that and I believe you 100%.... Try telling that to a muslim who has seen the original report from IslamOnline.

That is my exact point.

They will believe anything that is reported like this as fact.

This does not worry anyone?

Yes, it is distressing to think that muslims (some, I hope not all) will believe something because of the source. It doesn't equate to CNN or Fox News, though, because American media are only too quick to point out the bad as well as the good. And even though this too is frustrating sometimes, it has to be good in the long run. As long as it is verified, and retracted if found to be false.

The problem is that islamonline does nothing to verify, or retract. That is why I consider it pure propaganda. And it is good that you bring this to our attention, so that we know what we are up against.

So what can we do to counter this propaganda? Anything?

Originally posted by sisonek
phreak: Does that also apply to tear gas / pepper spray / etc.? I can imagine this scenario:

Military target A) is surrounded by homes / marketplaces whatever and B) they're all full of civilians right now, so why don't we drop some tear gas canisters and come back in an hour for the bombing? Most of the civilians will probably head elsewhere, hence fewer civilian casualties....

leading to a use of pepper spray / tear gas / some other rapidly-dispersing (mostly) nonlethal chemical attack prior to a more heavy-duty assault. Not having any military experience I don't know if that's done or not, just tossing the idea out; if that's what's going in in Fallujah right now it looks like it's got the potential to turn into a big public relations backfire if the stories become widely believed.

Sorry, but I don't think your scenario is very do-able. If you were to launch CS into a building you wouldn't expect civillians only to flee, you would expect everyone to flee. I can see some scenarios were CS would be used. If you know that you have a group of rebels in a building, you could throw a cannister of CS in the window, and shoot them as they leave the building. Everyone scatters when they get a lung full of that stuff. It's not good for seperating the fighters from the civillians. Everyone will come out of the building, coughing and drooling.

I have been hit with it a couple of times. part of the training for NBC It turns you into a coughing, drooling snot ball. Your eyes water to the point where you can not see. If you get it on hot sweaty skin, it burns. It burns like bitting into a jalapeno though, not like having acid dumped on you. It doesn't leave any permanent scarring on the skin.

If we are using it as part of clearing operations, our soldiers would not need chem suits. It does disipate fairly quickly. And if you put a bunch of holes into the building afterwards to help out the ventilation, it clears even faster. However, if you are using CS to clear a building instead of filling it full of holes, you are doing it because the building holds some sort of operational value.

To a group of people whose education is mostly just learning the quaran verbatum, I could easily understand how they could mistake CS for VX. But I do not remember a whole lot of tactical training using CS, but then again I've been out for almost 15 years.

phreak: thanks for the response; that does make sense. My mental picture was more a "town square" setting with a lot of hard-to-move artillery in it�drive the people away, destroy the guns--but now that I think about it I can't see a town square with some heavy guns laying around while people do their thing, either...I'm usually in way over my head in military discussions, anyhow; thanks for the explanation.

If this is true, it's not going to help the "American cause", and just for everyone's information...in an interview from 2001, Osama bin Laden said:

HM = Hamid Mir
OSB = Osama bin Laden

HM: Some Western media claim that you are trying to acquire chemical and nuclear weapons. How much truth is there in such reports?

OSB: I heard the speech of American President Bush yesterday (Oct 7). He was scaring the European countries that Osama wanted to attack with weapons of mass destruction. I wish to declare that if America used chemical or nuclear weapons against us, then we may retort with chemical and nuclear weapons. We have the weapons as deterrent.

HM: Where did you get these weapons from ?

OSB: Go to the next question.

Full Interview

He means he would use them as a deterrant. And the reason he recently sought permission to use nuclear is because he has heard of the Americans using "uranium depleted" shells in Iraq.

Whether it is just, or not...the intentions are clear.

Quite frankly, you cannot believe either the pro-resistance "news" OR the American "news."

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Originally posted by cstyle226
HM: Where did you get these weapons from ?

OSB: Go to the next question.

cstyle226, Do you have a source or link for this 'interview' with OBL?

Also what was the date (Oct 7) of what year?

Gazz

[edit on 13-11-2004 by UM_Gazz]

My post has been updated with the link and the year (2001)

Sorry about that

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Lest we remember that the West, including the US with its recent actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, are seen, viewed, and proclaimed as the 'infidels'. As such, and according to Islamic traditions, lying to 'infidels' is deemed acceptable.

Seems to me, that this article and claim of the US "gassing" Fallujah recks of those famous 'unnamed sources'...

May we also not forget that Fallujah is home to three major chemical plants that Saddam used to make weapons for conventional use(s). Perhaps these 'unnamed sources' are confused by the American forces utilization of smoke grenades and artillery shells?

IslamOnline's 'enhancing' the story mentioning the US forces using white phosphorous might explain why IslamOnline is smearing this false factoid around?

Some artillery guns fired white phosphorous rounds that create a screen of fire that cannot be extinguished with water. Insurgents reported being attacked with a substance that melted their skin, a reaction consistent with white phosphorous burns.

Kamal Hadeethi, a physician at a regional hospital, said, "The corpses of the mujahedeen which we received were burned, and some corpses were melted."

U.S. drives into heart of Fallujah...

Oh wait....I guess when one of these 'smoke' grenades or 'white phosphorous' shells hits an "insurgent/terrorist", then it becomes a "chemical weapon"?



seekerof

[edit on 13-11-2004 by Seekerof]

A look at the war in Iraq and the Battle in Fallujah from an Arab/Islamic point of view..



'Catastrophic conditions' in Falluja

US wounded in Falluja hits 412

Falluja plunges into humanitarian crisis

Iraqi fighters down US helicopter

Like it or not this is how the news is reported to hundreds of millions of Muslims around the world and their perceptions of the U.S.A. are based on what they get in the form of news from their own media.

We are the good guys right?

What are we really fighting for?

Try telling a muslim!



[edit on 13-11-2004 by UM_Gazz]

Well Baghdad Bob and Al Jeez-Lie-A comes to mind here, but think about it, our press is just as bad. I mean ABC,NBC, and CBS . So where do you get unbiased news? The BBC?

Originally posted by edsinger
Well Baghdad Bob and Al Jeez-Lie-A comes to mind here, but think about it, our press is just as bad. I mean ABC,NBC, and CBS . So where do you get unbiased news? The BBC?

You're right! The only decent source of news is the Faux "News" Channel...

Give me a break, you "die-easy conservative."

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Originally posted by cstyle226

You're right! The only decent source of news is the Faux "News" Channel...

Give me a break, you "die-easy conservative."

[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Die Easy? Is that a threat?

Look you can run your chops in here and put forth your views and that is fine with me. You can do it from your keyboard all you wish. But when you threaten me, I dont take to kindly to it.

Indiana huh? I bet either Indy, Gary, or Terre Haute.....am I right?

Not Evansville I hope.

[edit on 13-11-2004 by edsinger]

Originally posted by edsinger
So where do you get unbiased news? The BBC?

I don't think you can get unbiased news anymore. At one time, a reputable news service wouldn't run with a story with less than two sources to confirm it's accuracy. Anymore it's speculation, innuendo, and outright BS.

Personally, I read everything out there, even the propaganda sites and try to find find the truth myself. You just cannot rely on a single media outlet anymore.

B.

Originally posted by Bleys
I don't think you can get unbiased news anymore. At one time, a reputable news service wouldn't run with a story with less than two sources to confirm it's accuracy. Anymore it's speculation, innuendo, and outright BS.
Personally, I read everything out there, even the propaganda sites and try to find find the truth myself. You just cannot rely on a single media outlet anymore.

B.

I think that is a decent route to travel in these days m8, try to piece the crap together the best one can. I also try to do this but I do tend to follow Fox News as the better between ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN....I guess the next best would be MSNBC but FOX is my first choice.

Originally posted by edsinger
Die Easy? Is that a threat?

Look you can run your chops in here and put forth your views and that is fine with me. You can do it from your keyboard all you wish. But when you threaten me, I dont take to kindly to it.

Indiana huh? I bet either Indy, Gary, or Terre Haute.....am I right?

Not Evansville I hope.

It's not a threat, you maniac...you're barely worth thought. I was just mocking you because when you were dissing the media (with which I agree), but you forgot to mention Faux News in your list. I assumed it was because you are a "die-easy conservative." Deal with it.



[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

Originally posted by cstyle226

P.S. If you think you know where I'm at, come get me! You won't make it home.[edit on 13-11-2004 by cstyle226]

If it was not a threat then I was wrong but with your antics I thought it was.

As for the last comment, do you profess these beliefs in public? I do mine. I would bet you dont becuase I lived in Indiana for years and you wouldnt be around long professing that America will get her due so damn much.

Why dont you just leave? Go fishing in the Dardanel Straights...........

I knew a Turkish Student once, nice guy for the most part, I actually bought his Calculus book. He hated the US so much because of Isreal, and being the devout moslem he was, he sure did like his beer and Jack parties. Come to think of it, he like bacon also. I really like the kid, as he was around longer , his attitude changed somewhat. not that he like Isreal so much but he realized a bit more reasonably the world picture.

Can we please try to keep on topic here?

Warnings are next.

Lol...He's one person. What difference does he make?

Pat Buchanan hates Israel and he's not a "devout Muslim" or Turkish.

Lots of people hate lots of things, especially on these boards it would seem.

I don't hate anybody. The only reason I say what I say on here, is because I'm tired of all the hate being preached on here, so sometimes I say things I don't mean, just to oppose some of these people.

These boards have become a anger-nesting ground.

I'm sure someone will be ANGRY at me for even saying that. I don't even really care anymore...I'm kinda getting tired of all the hate in this place, and I'll probably just stop posting, and maybe even reading. But I'm sure people will say "Fine, get out."

Just like you told me to get out of America.

When the American empire falls (as all do), we'll know why.