Homosexuality And Christianity; I don't believe Jesus of the Bible would judge you harshly

I take my gay friend to church all the time, and like anybody else he has his own struggles. I always wonder if we are judged for this by the church. At skate church (like a youth group type deal), a guy who was walking across the nation from Oregon to New York visited us. He said he was on this walk to stop people from bullying, because not only did he have to fight frequently in high school due to bullying, but his fifteen year old son commited suicide as he just couldn't take the bullying he was enduring at school anymore. He said his son wasn't sexually active, and that in the bible it says no one sin is worse than another. I remember as i'm sure most of you do the story of how we are not to throw a stone at somebody in judgement because we are all sinners in one way or another.

K, that's my rant, how does ATS feel about homosexuality and Jesus?

I don't think Jesus had anything to say about it.
He was talking about love, acceptance, and peace.



EDIT: Star/Flag is from me.

reply to post by wildtimes


Jesus may not have approved of the sinful behavior, but he would have loved the men and women just as much as anyone else. Jesus actually spent most of his time among sinners. He was all about love and acceptance.

Many use Religion as an excuse for intolerance and hate, some people say God hates us gays and some say God loves everyone. Some say homosexuality is a sin, and some say that homosexuality is not a sin the "act" is a sin

reply to post by Darth_Prime

Dear Darth_Prime,

That's a good start on a comprehensive listing of how people react to homosexuality. Do you mind if I babble a bit? It's stuff you've heard before, though.

It seems to me fairly obvious that all of us have one or more areas of weakness, some "sin type" that we're more susceptible to. Some have said they all boil down to a twisted or inflamed sense of pride, some say it's the desire to put something above God, but whatever, it's there. Anger, greed, lust, sloth, you know the list.

The Catholic Church (and I agree), says that God loves all of us, and if He does, then we should be following His example. We should help each other, and pray, that whatever their problem sin is, they can overcome it. The Church does not criticize any one for being homosexual, any more than they criticize someone who is fighting anger issues.

They do view sex outside of marriage as a sin. (Nope, I'm not going to get into the various distinctions) I find the Church's position to be both loving and hopeful, just and helpful.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


If they view the "act" of homosexuality as the Sin than every straight person engaging in the "act" should get the same intolerant treatment we have gotten correct?

for that matter anyone who "Sins" should receive the same treatments we have gotten?

i want to note i am not knowledgeable in religion so i don't want to speak out of turn about things i don't know, likewise i am not religious nor believe in any of it

As far as I know, Jesus never mentioned homosexuality much less condemn it. You'd think if homosexuality really was a sin and against God's wishes, he would have said something about it, but he didn't.

Either he thought of it as a non-issue or those who put the NT together intentionally left his teachings of it out of their book because he taught that it was not a sin. Either way, being gay is not a sin and is completely natural.

Over 1,500 species of animals show homosexual behavior, so it definitely isn't a choice either.

reply to post by finalaccount2008



- that is a clear, kind post, FA

you know, this s not so much about homosexuality in perticular,
but about ánything that can keep a soul away from Him.
Anything, that is fortifying the Self of a person.

.. and that 'anything' can have myriad Forms -
who was struck down dead immediately, after his Self directly Opposed God ? - ananias
and why ? - Greed
..because Greed is , after Pride, thé archenemy of His love -which 'gives'

so, He is angry about "anything" which imprisons that soul,
....yet some of those things are móre Dangerous - because they imprison that soul Deeper - then others.

- a murderer may have acted out of heart insanity for a moment ;
and his soul is tortured by that 1 moment,
but yet he may be closer to Him, as a luxury living believer.

...years ago, i had a most Vivid dream ;
i entered underneath earth in a halfdark, castle-like large low cellar,
a fireplace gave golden shadows over the people sitting there to long wooden tables,
it had all a medeival sphere,
But with each of the persons was something Wrong ;
one was counting his golden money at the table, his hands were grotesque, as his eyes,
his nature had becóme 'greed' , and showed in the parts of his body
so each person had the Deformation, according to their sin

i knew it wasnt ' hell ' where i was,
but the [fleshy] natures of realtime people, above ground level
or, their Self
..and He expects from every believer to WANT [!] to get Rid of Self
- that is, ' agreeing that it needs to get Rid of '... so He can execute that.

..the danger of a soul, trying to Jústify [his] homosexuality is,
that the person will tálk about ' jesus' - yet never Meet Him.
Because his Self can talk about Him
even correctly
- yet his soul wont see Him.

i ve found, that there are many types of smaller 'entities' who can sustain many types of addictions and sins;
stealing...drinking...sleeping around...etc
- but those cannot Fortify the Self so much, as Pride...and homosexuality.
..since the both latter are the nature of the Fallen ones, themsélves.

i wish you best,

reply to post by finalaccount2008


Jesus had nothing to say about it at all. Never mentioned it.

So either a person can accept that Jesus is cool with it or they can go by the old testament that tells them to stone children on the street when they talk back.

Or... you can do what many do and just cherry-pick whatever feeds your own ignorance and fear and then ignore the rest.

Originally posted by finalaccount2008
I take my gay friend to church all the time, and like anybody else he has his own struggles. I always wonder if we are judged for this by the church. At skate church (like a youth group type deal), a guy who was walking across the nation from Oregon to New York visited us. He said he was on this walk to stop people from bullying, because not only did he have to fight frequently in high school due to bullying, but his fifteen year old son commited suicide as he just couldn't take the bullying he was enduring at school anymore. He said his son wasn't sexually active, and that in the bible it says no one sin is worse than another. I remember as i'm sure most of you do the story of how we are not to throw a stone at somebody in judgement because we are all sinners in one way or another.

K, that's my rant, how does ATS feel about homosexuality and Jesus?

Are you sure you trust my judgement? It appears to me that only certain people's judgement is socially acceptable. I fully agree with the bible that a sin is a sin.
Since you've brought up the story, for whatever reason, I'll go ahead and chime in about that in asking this: Does a person who actually accepts themselves go ahead and kill themselves? Does a person who loves their self go ahead and commit suicide because other people hate him? Interesting.

reply to post by Wonders


Well, I know what it's like to want to commit suicide, I think a lot of people do, but I just couldn't put my family and friends through that. That said, I think an individual would have to be tortured inside to go that far. I don't think it reflects his personality or means he is wrong in how he feels, I think that bullying and having nobody to turn to can absolutely crush someone's spirit. Just like another poster on this thread said, homosexuality is even prevelent among animals, so it appears to be natural, maybe gay marriage isn't so bad. But on the other hand, it would be weird having two dads but as long as they love their child I can't find a reason to throw a stone here. Homosexuality is not for me but I feel like people are born that way.

reply to post by finalaccount2008


To understand Jesus' stance on sin, assess Jesus' teachings regarding the subject of sin itself. We know he spoke out against the religious leaders for their hypocrisy, but he never endorsed sin itself. On the contrary he was rather strict when it came to sin, and set a rather high moral standard for his followers.

Regarding harsh judgement, Jesus said he would reject a lot of Christians on a certain day when they go up to him saying "Lord, Lord" - because they were "lawless". That's harsh judgement, isn't it?

reply to post by Darth_Prime

Dear Darth_Prime,

This is a difficult subject to talk about, isn't it? I was talking about God and the Church. Straight people involved in sex outside of marriage are considered just as sinful as gays having sex outside of marriage.

As far as how sinners should be treated, I believe I've dealt with that. You're a sinner, and I'm a sinner. We both need God's mercy and forgiveness. As humans, we should encourage each other to overcome our sins, whatever they are, and should help each other through this life and to God. This means showing all the love we are capable of, and asking God for more love for our fellows. We are all headed for an eternal future, and it's only right to assist each other to a good one.

Now, what follows is not my main point, just a quick thought. If you don't "believe in any of it," I assume you don't believe in God or His laws. Given that, on what grounds can one argue it's not "fair" to be treated a certain way?

If humans are all there is, where does one human get off telling another what "fair" means? Fair for one may not be fair for another, and there is no higher standard to appeal to. I'm sure you've heard dozens of times; "But that's not fair! So what, who said life is fair?"

If you're mistreated by a Christian, at least you can say "God doesn't want you to act that way." But if there's no God, all you can say is "I don't want you to act that way," or "I've persuaded a bunch of people to put you in jail if you act that way."

I don't want you to be mistreated, and I don't believe I have ever mistreated you, any other Queen, ( I assume "Queen" is not derogatory. If it is, my sincere apologies.) or anyone with a different orientation. But I do reserve the right to say "God has condemned what you're doing," just as people can say to me that God has condemned some of my actions. The problem comes about after that. Mistreatment because of my sins is wrong. Offering understanding, support, and aid to me while I try to overcome my sins is right.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Good post. So you think according to scripture that homosexuality is a sin? I could see that. Just seems unfair to me since gays are born gay from what I can see. I've sinned HORRIBLY in my life almost killing somebody and being a felon and a womanizer and a dealer in the past, but now I'm alot better.

BTW, my pops (pictured in my avi) was born in '52! Gotta love baby-boomers

reply to post by charles1952


Yes, i have always defended anyone's rights because i want to be afforded the same, you have the right to believe what you want, say what you want, express yourself how you want.


but what if someone said they had "proof" in a book that said 'X' god believed that any Christian was a sin and should not be treated equally because it's against 'X' gods will?

who has the god that trumps the other gods?

it's a personally belief, but a lot of people hide behind religion to be derogatory

reply to post by finalaccount2008

Dear finalaccount2008,

Yep, 1952 was a pretty decent year.

May I clarify something? At least as far as I see it?

So you think according to scripture that homosexuality is a sin? I could see that. Just seems unfair to me since gays are born gay from what I can see.

I could easily be wrong, and that might be what's causing some confusion in my mind, but I see homosexuality as a desire, an inclination, a tendency, to be physically attracted to someone of the same sex. I don't see that as a sin, neither does the Catholic Church. I don't know about other religions' positions.

Whether they're born that way, or devlop through their environment doesn't matter to the question of sinfulness.

I suspect there are some people who, from birth or an early age, are physical, aggressive, and quick tempered. There's no sin in that. I'm told to treat that person as another of God's precious creations. I should love people who are inclined to violence, greed, any of the sins. But, if the person displays violence, verbal abuse, physical crimes, then a sin occurs.

The violent person can recognize he's going wrong, try to control his outbursts, get counselling, ask his friends to help him become more peaceful, or anything that may help reduce his sin in this area. Oh, sure, he'll punch somebody now and then, or curse up a storm, but does he feel remorse? Does he admit he still has that problem? Does he try again to live a good life? That's what matters.

Or does he say "I'm mad, and I want to knock someone over the head. That's just the way I am, get used to it." Notice that I'm not talking about laws and his relations with humans, I'm talking about sins and his relation to God.

I've sinned HORRIBLY in my life almost killing somebody and being a felon and a womanizer and a dealer in the past, but now I'm alot better.[/quote] I'm very happy for you. Just as an aside, not all crimes are sins and not all sins are crimes.

To show you how confusing this can get; I love Darth_Prime, I kind of like him but I don't know him as well as I'd like to (I think there's a lot of sensitivity and love in him), and I think some his actions go against what God wants for him, he should look into that and reconsider his path. I want him to be eternally happy. Darth_Prime has to do what he can, and rely on God for the rest.

In the same way, I should reconsider my path to avoid any "sin areas" that I might be susceptible to, and pray for God's mercy.

With respect,
Charles1952

The word sin means to miss the mark of perfection. We all do that every day. I am sure if Yeshua had wanted to address that as a major issue he could have and yet he did not do that. He stopped the hypocrites from stoning the woman caught in the very act of adultery by saying, "Who among you that is without sin cast the first stone" and I have actually heard that he really said "Who among you that is without THIS sin cast the first stone" because he knew it was a set-up. Notice they did not drag the man out there to be stoned and he was equally as guilty.

Paul is the one who really pushed the anti-gay agenda, the subjugation of women agenda, and the slavery is ok agenda. Paul causes all the divisions we see in the Church today. All sin separates us from God, and anyone who needs to bash gays needs to look in the mirror and find that beam in their eye!

No one needs to be told they are a sinner. By that, I mean that we all know when we are doing wrong. Some need to draw attention to others though to make themselves feel better. What I do know is that one of the last things Yeshua did tell those who loved him and followed him that it would be by the love we show one to another that people will know we are his disciples. I wish we would all show more of that brotherly love to each other and maybe we could get to Agape love which is unconditional.

Originally posted by finalaccount2008
reply to post by charles1952

 

Good post. So you think according to scripture that homosexuality is a sin? I could see that. Just seems unfair to me since gays are born gay from what I can see. I've sinned HORRIBLY in my life almost killing somebody and being a felon and a womanizer and a dealer in the past, but now I'm alot better.

BTW, my pops (pictured in my avi) was born in '52! Gotta love baby-boomers

...you re a very honest soul.
Yes - so, who did NOT sin horribly in his life.
and the bad thing -
in time, the sinning only appears to get móre Total.

honey yes homosexuality is having been born with it
or at least so it feels - as "a part of you"

theres the problem:
its not a "part of you" but a "part of your Self [ ego] "
since Ego is rúled by Evil

but that aint YOU ?

God....how hard it is to make clear the difference between someones fake Ego...and his Soul...

THIS---

knowyourmeme.com...


Humanity is so self-centered, most just cannot see the forest through the trees.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
As far as I know, Jesus never mentioned homosexuality much less condemn it. You'd think if homosexuality really was a sin and against God's wishes, he would have said something about it, but he didn't.

Either he thought of it as a non-issue or those who put the NT together intentionally left his teachings of it out of their book because he taught that it was not a sin. Either way, being gay is not a sin and is completely natural.

Over 1,500 species of animals show homosexual behavior, so it definitely isn't a choice either.

On numerous occasions, Jesus condemned the sins of adultery (Matthew 19:18), sexual immorality (Matthew 19:9) and fornication (Matthew 15:19). These terms describe any type of sexual intercourse that is not within the confines of a marriage ordained by God. Jesus then proceeded to define exactly what God views as a morally permissible marriage. He stated:

Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate (Matthew 19:4-6).

Link

Though Jesus never mentioned the word Homosexuality or Bestiality, we still can conclude with common sense and knowledge of the rest of scripture, that God does not like homosexuality. In the Old Testament, it was 'an abomination'.

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth has come, He will guide you into all truth” (John 16:12-13)

For the record, I do not like how some christian brethren focus on homosexuality and only preach against that. All sins are equal (James 2:10).

We all fall short.