Misogyny - a Product of Mixed Signals for Men

There have been threads on ATS pertaining to misogyny. The pattern behind those threads is similar, but the answer to the question: why does he hate women? Is never really there.

Then again, how could it be?

There are those who claim misogyny is impossible, because men are incapable of hating women. Nature, nurture, whatever you want to call it.

Unfortunately, misogyny is not only possible - it is, in fact, rampant.

The reason why misogyny appears to be far more common than any other form of hatred is because men receive mixed signals from society at large. Men are expected to adhere to chivalry (a remnant of the past, with various laws stemming from chivalry), and yet women are to be independent (feminist influence); women can use shaming language (be a man, etc.) with impunity, because society (men and women alike) offers them the right to do so.

Yes, men use that type of language as well, but not within the context of denigrating their own gender.

There is a definite cognitive dissonance in place, and that dissonance can be observed throughout the world (the West being the prime source). Women appear to be more rigid in adherence to gender roles than men are.

In essence - we are in a mess. Two worlds keep colliding: that of the past and that of the present. As it is the position of women which has changed significantly... and yet, that position remains unchanged. Men notice that contradiction and cannot always figure a way out of this mental conundrum.

The perplexing nature of the issue at hand does not justify misogyny, but it explains why there are men who take that particular route.

If we are going to push our society into gender equality, which is definitely a positive idea, then that means there are going to be situations where girls have the monetary upper-hand in a relationship

and / or are sharing a house with a guy who is a lot more socialized than previous generations due to cirumstances, possibly more socialized than her.

so there are going to be a lot of arguments that are definitely not simple enough to be generalized as being about gender.

Originally posted by darkbake
If we are going to push our society into gender equality, which is definitely a positive idea, then that means there are going to be situations where girls have the monetary upper-hand in a relationship

and / or are sharing a house with a guy who is a lot more socialized than previous generations due to cirumstances, possibly more socialized than her.

so there are going to be a lot of arguments that are definitely not simple enough to be generalized as being about gender.

edit on 8-9-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

Yes, but our general perception remains the same. Who wears pants in this relationship and so on. These are all indicators of the general trend. We can forget about gender equality around the globe. Our civilization would have to suffer a major cataclysm and re-organize itself. No amount of feminism can change that. Feminism and other movements are merely patches, not tangible solutions.

reply to post by FlowThruSpace


I think that a large majority of the world has the same general perspective. If we focus in on America, I think that a large majority of America has that general perspective. However, in America, there is a growing populace that doesn't -

Ah, I can point out instances in my general vicinity where sexism is entirely rampant. For example, gender roles in marriages (including not sharing cleaning and cooking duties even when both work), a lot of gaming culture is disproportionately hostile towards girls and even feminine characteristics (however, this varies from group to group).

In some ways it is getting better, in some ways it is getting even worse - due to the lack of social skills in general resulting from hardly any face-to-face time.

But I also think it is getting more complicated. I know if I had the choice, I would not treat anyone badly,

But circumstances have shown me that I do have to occasionally stand up for myself regardless of the gender of the person on the other end.

reply to post by FlowThruSpace


Totally a complicated subject in general. There are controlling men, for example, that dominate other men - and then women who think they can get away with anything with a certain guy in particular because they are women.

I think the easiest way to deal with either of this issues is not to believe in them as they pertain to your life.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by FlowThruSpace

 

Totally a complicated subject in general. There are controlling men, for example, that dominate other men - and then women who think they can get away with anything with a certain guy in particular because they are women.

I think the easiest way to deal with either of this issues is not to believe in them as they pertain to your life.

edit on 8-9-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

You're right, about gaming culture in particular. The gaming culture is a reflection of society at large, and gamers can actually lose their status and get treated like females. This is the biggest shame of all, akin to ritualistic behaviors of old. It serves to ''encourage'' them to be improve their skills, ostracize them, etc.

Women often burst into anger because they feel powerless/mistreated. This game (no pun intended) is played on a multitude of levels. I do not buy for a second there are no social engineers behind this; they are extremely intelligent and devoid of any empathy. True architects of our thought patterns.

Good thread.

I believe the topic at hand is one of a few reasons that Western culture is frowned upon in most parts of the world.

Women get mixed signals too. Look at porn.

It screams "I prefer a whore", but then men really want a virgin to marry.

Make up your mind. Do you like your women trashy or not? If we dress nicely we're frigid. If we dress provocatively we're whores.

Tell us what you really want and let's have an end to the name-calling.

reply to post by suz62


And men get mixed signals. All women want a huge penis. Leading to feelings of self loathing, depression, etc. In the long run porn hurts men more than women.

reply to post by FlowThruSpace


Uh yeah, I think you actually understand what I am saying on a bigger picture. I've also experienced a lot of situations where a political movement is used in order to further someone's personal agenda,

Our country is kind of a vile place.

That's why people pushing political agendas have to be careful, if we experience them rippling through our country one after another, each focusing on arresting a certain group for "thought" crimes, it is not going to be easy.

It might start with feminism, is what I'm saying, arresting guys who appear to be misogynistic who aren't, or racist who aren't (rather than those who are) because the agenda becomes blind.

Then imagine when another opposite movement comes, wanting to arrest those that are leeches, or gay, or whatever.

That is where our country is headed. It is not good.

Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by suz62

 

And men get mixed signals. All women want a huge penis. Leading to feelings of self loathing, depression, etc. In the long run porn hurts men more than women.

What gives you that idea about what all women want all women are different

In the end 'porn' hurts everyone


Porn doesn't show REAL people ... every man in porn has a six pack, all over tan, a huge

penis, and looks on the better side of average Of the men I've met I'm lucky if they have

one of those assets .... and women with washboard stomach's, hugely inflated

breast implants,hair pieces, false eyelashes, filler inflated lips (like a blow up sex toy) and

totally hairless (like a prepubescent girl)


I have not/do not watch porn but have worked for a company which was very male orientated

and with few females on staff, and the after conference entertainment usually involved porn

(this is when I would excuse myself and find something better to do with my time.


There is no lead up (foreplay) to the sex in porn ... Very necessary to discover the needs

and likes of a real person ... Oh and don't start me off on the exaggerated sounds and

noises Everyone is individual and different, their likes and dislikes are very

varied (there's no such thing as 'one style fits all' ) and a good lover can tune into this!!


Funnily enough I was reading an article just before I came here and i'll just quote a small

passage from it

" I was 14 years old when I first saw people having sex. I was hanging out with friends when

one girls 'boyfriend' turned up and demanded a s**g we all laughed (after all we were all smart

kids from a good school) The girl fancied herself 'in love' and to our extreme embarrassment

she complied ... she lay there chatting while the 'boy friend' grunted around on top with all the

finesse of a man changing a car tyre. That sordid and oh so mercifully brief horror show

convinced me that holding on to my virginity was just fine."


That in my view is what porn has done to the latest generation emotionless sex


A quote I read many years ago and attributed to Robert Redford

"I am not interested in loveless sex ... nor am I interested in sexless love.

That says it all to me!!

Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by suz62

 

And men get mixed signals. All women want a huge penis. Leading to feelings of self loathing, depression, etc. In the long run porn hurts men more than women.

I was responding to the OP.

reply to post by eletheia


I didnt mean it as every single woman per sé. I was meaning from a mans point of view, due to porn, women saying nasty things to men, etc. I appologize, i shouldve used all in quotes.
I do agree that porn taints the mind and ruins self images.

reply to post by suz62


That's great! But this is an open forum for all to participate.

reply to post by FlowThruSpace


Many men become misogynist to a degree because the society they live within is, itself, misandrist.

Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by eletheia

 

I didnt mean it as every single woman per sé. I was meaning from a mans point of view, due to porn, women saying nasty things to men, etc. I appologize, i shouldve used all in quotes.
I do agree that porn taints the mind and ruins self images.

Yes I suppose the 'perfect' stud in a porn movie may make a 'proper' man feel inferior?

and on the other side of the coin

The 'perfect' hairless Barbie doll 'wanabe' will have an effect on a 'normal' young girls self

esteem and body image?

I'll wager the majority of porn movies are made for men? With 99% of producers being

male too ... so where is all this supposed misogyny coming from??

reply to post by eletheia


There are plenty of those films with nasty, or obese women. Moreso than there are with men that arent well endowed. And lots of women watch porn, whether they admit it or not.

Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by eletheia

 

There are plenty of those films with nasty, or obese women. Moreso than there are with men that arent well endowed. And lots of women watch porn, whether they admit it or not.

Hey I'm no expert on porn but I have an enquiring mind (you could say nosey) and I read

a lot to try and understand 'things'

The 'porn' with nasty obese women is not, I believe the norm it is a specialised area for

people I think are called 'feeders' but that's another story ...


I don't doubt there are women that watch 'porn' but this is only my opinion

I think most of them watch it for a giggle if office gossip is to be believed !! I don't get

the feeling that they like to curl up with a take away a glass of wine and a

'porn movie' It is my experience women in general would rather have

'romance'!!

Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by eletheia

 

There are plenty of those films with nasty, or obese women. Moreso than there are with men that arent well endowed. And lots of women watch porn, whether they admit it or not.

Define "nasty".

reply to post by suz62


Nasty as in lesions and zits all over their bodies.