Bad Christians (Haters) Giving Good Christians (Lovers) a Bad Reputation

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

The reason why paganism was bad is because it led to the worship of creation.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with that. What's wrong with venerating creation? The point of creating is not to be recognize. If you are creating to be recognized, you don't deserve the recognition. You create to give people a product or service that will make life better for them. You create to fill a necessity. If that necessity is attention-seeking, then your creation will suffer for it.

Venerating that which is less than you is silly. Would you venerate the grass, though it does not grow of its own accord, neither does it have any say in where it grows, neither if it gains light, or water, or anything? And trees the same? Or even the sun the same; for itself it is not self sustaining, but uses the latent energy offered to it to convert into what we receive. This is the same reason we should not be venerating ourselves; but we have a form of imagination that is beyond all other things in our perceivable universe, and therefore are granted a form of godhood. But even that is gifted. Appreciation of nature is wonderful. Veneration of nature is fantastic. There is a significant difference.

But when one starts attributing the power of creation to itself, instead of realizing from Whom it came, that is where the trespass occurs.

The solution to that dilemma is simple: let God get off of his obstinate ass and come down and say hello. If he chooses not to do that, then let the consequences be on his own head. He cannot blame us for his inaction.

God has come down and said hello. But on your premise that He hasn't...

For example, you can't blame a system for failing. You understand that a system fails because people allow the system to control them.

That's what religion is.

That's what I said.

Now a system is designed to prevent evil. But evil will manipulate a system to its own end. Therefore, why are people, in their ignorance, allowing evil to command them via the system?

I'm not sure I believe in evil.

But on your premise that He hasn't, then therefore, you do believe in evil. Because if you didn't believe in evil, then you wouldn't be angry at a God that you suppose has not come down to make things the way -you- in your finite understanding believe they should be. One of the things that you are saying is not true.

So therefore, they have allowed themselves submission to the very evil they think they are battling. But they are not.

They are serving that evil because they stay within that system.

Even if evil does exist, I'm not sure we are in the position to understand nearly as well as you seem to be implying.

You're not sure that you are in the position to understand; and by saying so, well said. But if you aren't sure about your own position, you surely cannot judge the position of another. So saying, "we" in this case invalidates your statement.

So, if you want to be truly good, learn these powers. Then no matter what the system is, you live; until the time you are judged for their use.

Humans were never meant to be wholly constructive or wholly destructive. Unfortunately, they are convinced they must choose one or the other. The concept of balance is repulsive to them, apparently.

If you don't believe in a God that created us, then you can't possibly claim to understand what humans were "meant" to be. That statement defies the alternate stance of random generation and natural selection.

You are being honest when you say that you desperately want to be proven wrong, because you're not trying very hard to be proven right.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


reply to post by TarzanBeta

Venerating that which is less than you is silly.

Why?

Would you venerate the grass, though it does not grow of its own accord, neither does it have any say in where it grows, neither if it gains light, or water, or anything? And trees the same? Or even the sun the same

Yes. It all has a purpose for which we appreciate it. Why not venerate it for those reasons?

This is the same reason we should not be venerating ourselves; but we have a form of imagination that is beyond all other things in our perceivable universe, and therefore are granted a form of godhood. But even that is gifted. Appreciation of nature is wonderful. Veneration of nature is fantastic. There is a significant difference.

A profound respect and appreciation for nature is never wrong.

God has come down and said hello. But on your premise that He hasn't...

He has never come down and shaken hands with me, looked me in the eye, and said, "Hello, I'm God. Do you have a moment? I'd like to discuss some things with you."

If that were to happen, I would sit and listen. But it hasn't.

But on your premise that He hasn't, then therefore, you do believe in evil.

As I have said before, I'm not sure I do. Don't tell me what I believe in - between the two of us, you're the least likely to know.

if you didn't believe in evil, then you wouldn't be angry at a God that you suppose has not come down to make things the way -you- in your finite understanding believe they should be.

I'm not angry at any god. I am disappointed in the people who follow the same god you do. Watching them is like watching a bird who believes its wings are tumors and walks around all the time doing penance for whatever it did to earn those "tumors". They want to be prisoners, slaves, drones. They want to eschew responsibility of their fate. Worst of all, they hate being human. They can't stand it. They spend their whole lives in anticipation of not being human anymore.

That's what I see.

You're not sure that you are in the position to understand;

Nuh uh, that's not what I said. I said: "Even if evil does exist, I'm not sure we are in the position to understand nearly as well as you seem to be implying." Not me. We. All of us. Including you.

But if you aren't sure about your own position, you surely cannot judge the position of another. So saying, "we" in this case invalidates your statement.

I did not misspeak. I meant what I said. You cannot say you truly understand evil, for that would be arrogance, would it not?

If you don't believe in a God that created us, then you can't possibly claim to understand what humans were "meant" to be. That statement defies the alternate stance of random generation and natural selection.

I can see what works and what doesn't. I can understand what follows the grain and what crosses it. God worship tends to elicit the sort of mentality that crosses the grain. Random generation provides the soil from which natural selection operates.

You are being honest when you say that you desperately want to be proven wrong, because you're not trying very hard to be proven right.

And now you're just trolling.