How can Something Omnipresent have a Form?

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

No. Father does not. Please show me what verses you use to come to this ridiculous conclusion. Did Father simply not exist before the universe was created?

Correct, there was only God. God created Father to be the image of God to all. Just as he created his spirits to perform different tasks inside of creation. This is common knowledge to those in the know here and above.

edit on 31-8-2013 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

So you have zero verses to support your claim? That's fine, you invalidate your claim by specifically stating "Father" is apart from God, and is not God, therefore even if you're right, that has nothing to do with God having a physical body.

Rev. 22:3-4

No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

Exodus 33:18-20

18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”

19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

Neither of those verses even deal with a figure called "Father" that is some sort of Godly avatar.

As I have stated earlier, man refers to him as God. Above, everyone calls him Father.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

The belief that the Earth was a flat square is not found in the bible.

I didn't say anything about a square.
A disc is a circle, a circle is not a sphere.
Is Galileo a theologian?

Way to remove the verses from my quote. A circle is a sphere when your language has no word for sphere. Please tell me the ancient word for sphere, I will wait for it.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

The Bible is pretty clear on the subject once you look at the Bible as a full complete book instead of as a single verse . . .

Playing "Mix and Match" with bits of text like a puzzle results in a muddled mess.
There is no magic code in the Bible to solve.

edit on 3-9-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

No, I will leave that to you. I didn't say play mix and match, I said look at EVERY verse. How does looking at the Bible as a complete text mean mix and match? Thought so.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

How does me not being God limit God?

I don't know. Do you think that you are God?
If you think that you are, then the argument will not work with you.

Replying with a question is not an answer, I will wait for you to do so.

Saying God can only be in one place at a time is a limitation.

I didn't say that.

Actually, you did.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I think you are referring to Omniscience: Universal or Complete knowledge I was referring to om•ni•pres•ent (of God) present everywhere at the same time.

What does "being present" mean?
It means doing something somewhere.
Why would God be somewhere doing nothing?
God can do something somewhere that the affects last a long time or forever, freeing Him up to do something somewhere else.
en.wikipedia.org...

If God needs to do something so he can go someplace else that is exactly what you are saying. Otherwise the comment you made makes no sense.

Circular reasoning, you start with God being a person then use His being a person as proof He is a person.

Are you a person? Do you think that God is a person?
How about me, do you think that I am a person? Are you me, and am I you? Are we limited by not being able to be someone else? I think so. Being limited is a good thing, especially if I want to be me rather than someone else being me.

edit on 3-9-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

God is not a person. I am. You are. How am I limited by not being you?

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

A circle is a sphere when your language has no word for sphere. Please tell me the ancient word for sphere, I will wait for it.

The word, Sphere comes from the Greek. If you look at Isaiah 40:22 in the LXX, it does not use that, but it uses γυρον, the masculine, singular, accusative form of the word for circle, γυρος. They easily could have used sphere if that was what was meant.

How does looking at the Bible as a complete text mean mix and match?

If you take all the verses as it they are just one big book by the same person, about the same thing, the you can just take any bit from anywhere and put them together in any order to make it say what you want.

Replying with a question is not an answer, I will wait for you to do so.

A question and a statement.

Actually, you did.

I'm sure that I didn't. That is just your interpretation.

Otherwise the comment you made makes no sense.

I didn't say that God "needs" to do anything. That is your theory, that God needs to do things and be places, not mine.

God is not a person. I am. You are. How am I limited by not being you?

God is multiple persons, that is if you are talking about the godhead. "God", the individual person who we call God normally, the father of Jesus, is by definition a person, at least according to Christianity.
Being you limits you from being me, otherwise being anything would be meaningless. If you could be God, then being God would mean nothing. God is limited by not being anyone else, which is fundamental to the doctrine of the Trinity, otherwise we would all be Modelists.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

A circle is a sphere when your language has no word for sphere. Please tell me the ancient word for sphere, I will wait for it.

The word, Sphere comes from the Greek. If you look at Isaiah 40:22 in the LXX, it does not use that, but it uses γυρον, the masculine, singular, accusative form of the word for circle, γυρος. They easily could have used sphere if that was what was meant.

The OT was not written in Greek. It was translated to Greek. Unless I am mistaken, did Ancient Jews read and write and speak Greek? The word used is חוּג (chuwg). There is no word for sphere in their language. חוּג (chuwg) is used for circle and horizon, what do you get when you put a circular horizon going off in all directions? Could it be a sphere?

We are way off topic, so I am done responding to this.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

The OT was not written in Greek. It was translated to Greek.

That is a theory.
So-called biblical Hebrew is a dead language which only exists in the Bible, so there is no way to tell what it means, other than by looking at the Greek version, which is not dead.
The Jews had a habit of falsifying their documents to make them seem older than they are, so they probably took the Greek Bible and made up an old looking text, which really doesn't mean anything specifically.

Oh common guys we all know the the Earth is square! "four-corners of the earth" and "the worlds were framed by the word of God" hmmmm

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Look at what those appearances would say. "take of your sandals, you're standing on holy ground" is one. Jesus as much as admits that was him in John 5. Moses wrote the Torah, at the timie Christ was preaching the only scriptures in existence were the Law, Prophets and Writings or as a christian would know them "Old Testament".

John 5:39-47

39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

The Breath of Life came from God that he breathed into Adam.

John 20:19-23

19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.

21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

1 Cor 15:45-47

45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.

Originally posted by TheBrother
Oh common guys we all know the the Earth is square! "four-corners of the earth" and "the worlds were framed by the word of God" hmmmm

Which is it? Is the Earth a flat circle, or a square? Maybe you can take a minute and think what does "four corners of the Earth" actually refer to. Hint, the word translated as four does not mean four.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I have no idea what you are replying to or what you are trying to say.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


He (L.W.) has this thing about Jesus being the reincarnation of YHWH.
So, I think he is presenting the "proof" of that being the case.

Maybe it could apply to the idea of God being in a specific place.

Air is fairly omnipresent - blow it into a balloon...there's your 'form'...

Å99

Originally posted by akushla99
Air is fairly omnipresent - blow it into a balloon...there's your 'form'...

Å99

om·ni·pres·ent
[om-nuh-prez-uhnt] Show IPA

adjective
present everywhere at the same time: the omnipresent God.

I did not realize air was a staple of space, boy do I feel stupid now.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by akushla99
Air is fairly omnipresent - blow it into a balloon...there's your 'form'...

Å99

om·ni·pres·ent
[om-nuh-prez-uhnt] Show IPA

adjective
present everywhere at the same time: the omnipresent God.

I did not realize air was a staple of space, boy do I feel stupid now.

Don't feel stupid...try starting to feel a bit more superior and above everyone else...you put yourself down too much...

You at least know how to read and use a dictionary...and you have a special kind of humility...

Space, the area between things is omnipresent, defined (in negative form) by the objects it surrounds...

Å99

reply to post by Grimpachi


I personally don't see where god having a form would be an issue at all with being omnipresent. One thing I find fascinating about peoples beliefs or their personal comprehension on if the bible is the need to make things make sense in their physical world. Without acknowledging it and in my experience denying it some place limitations on a supreme being. If there is a god as depicted in the bible, the power and abilities that this being has is so far beyond mankinds ability to comprehend that thinking that this being could not be physical yet be omnipresent doesn't hold weight in an argument. This of course is my personal opinion from my understanding of what I have read.

A good question to ponder would be if this being exists why would it not be able to be omnipresent with a physical form? Does it have limitations? Depending on who you ask you will get varied answers to those questions. Interesting enough as I have seen pointed out the bible while stating that moses saw something it also later states that no one has seen god. Makes me curious why not. It says no one can look upon the glory of god yet following the idea that god has no limitations that statement is not true. If god wanted you to look upon him/her that shouldn't be an issue.

Other considerations would be that when it's stated we were created in his image it refers to the spirit/soul and not the actual tangible form. As I'm sure you can see from the variety of views in the thread everyone has a particular understanding of how a verse should be taken as well as it's meaning. So it's up to you to decide how it should be understood.

After reading the thread up to now I see yes physical and no physical so I'm guessing the jury is still out. My personal opinion on it is this, with the information we have in scripture no one knows. Unless you have personally met this deity you will not have a true answer. But, taking into consideration what information relating to the deity we do have in scripture there is no reason that it can have a physical body and be omnipresent.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by TheBrother
Oh common guys we all know the the Earth is square! "four-corners of the earth" and "the worlds were framed by the word of God" hmmmm

Which is it? Is the Earth a flat circle, or a square? Maybe you can take a minute and think what does "four corners of the Earth" actually refer to. Hint, the word translated as four does not mean four.

I was just playing with the literal words. The Earth that I'm talking about is the mind of a man.

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by akushla99
Air is fairly omnipresent - blow it into a balloon...there's your 'form'...

Å99

om·ni·pres·ent
[om-nuh-prez-uhnt] Show IPA

adjective
present everywhere at the same time: the omnipresent God.

I did not realize air was a staple of space, boy do I feel stupid now.

Don't feel stupid...try starting to feel a bit more superior and above everyone else...you put yourself down too much...

You at least know how to read and use a dictionary...and you have a special kind of humility...

Space, the area between things is omnipresent, defined (in negative form) by the objects it surrounds...

Å99

That has what to do with the fact you claim air is everywhere (omnipresent) when most of outer space is devoid of air? Maybe you need to stop taking your own advice, since your feeling superior and above everyone else leads you to make comments that prove you are not.

Air isn't even omipresent on Earth, let alone the rest of the universe. Quite the stupid comment you made.