How can Something Omnipresent have a Form?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I think you are referring to Omniscience: Universal or Complete knowledge I was referring to om•ni•pres•ent (of God) present everywhere at the same time.

What does "being present" mean?
It means doing something somewhere.
Why would God be somewhere doing nothing?
God can do something somewhere that the affects last a long time or forever, freeing Him up to do something somewhere else.
en.wikipedia.org...

No. You are now limiting God by him needing to be "freed up". God does not need freeing up, God can be all places, at all moments of time, doing all things at once.

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by Grimpachi
Okay I must not be explaining this well because it all comes full circle back to something having form yet being omnipresent. Being physically present somewhere yet being everywhere simply does not make a bit of sense to me. Like I said I am tired so I will give this another shot after some sleep.

Maybe then I can phrase my question a little bit better.

When the Bible was written, and when anyone speaks of God, they are referring to Father. No one here or above except a select few can go outside of creation and interact with God, they can only interact with Father. So, Father has a form. Thus the confusion. Father is a piece of God, to have interaction with all in a form, that all can see and hear.

Sorry but that is lost on me. It just doesn't compute.

However when you say he has form do you mean a physical form?

Yes, a physical form. Man is just not privy to see it. Above, they can see in either pure spiritual form, or in the physical. Guides, soldiers, and the watchers see in physical form, while the rest see in spiritual form. The physical form is just because of man, so they do not have to switch back and forth between the two.

reply to post by jhill76


No, God does not have a physical form. He is able to assume one if He desires, but His nature does not include a physical form.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by jhill76

 

No, God does not have a physical form. He is able to assume one if He desires, but His nature does not include a physical form.

Father does have a physical form, God does not. Father is the figurehead of God above. Father is apart of God.

You will need to read all of my posts to understand that in which I am speaking.

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by jhill76

 

No, God does not have a physical form. He is able to assume one if He desires, but His nature does not include a physical form.

Father does have a physical form, God does not. Father is the figurehead of God above. Father is apart of God.

No. Father does not. Please show me what verses you use to come to this ridiculous conclusion. Did Father simply not exist before the universe was created?

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

No. Father does not. Please show me what verses you use to come to this ridiculous conclusion. Did Father simply not exist before the universe was created?

Correct, there was only God. God created Father to be the image of God to all. Just as he created his spirits to perform different tasks inside of creation. This is common knowledge to those in the know here and above.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

No. Father does not. Please show me what verses you use to come to this ridiculous conclusion. Did Father simply not exist before the universe was created?

Correct, there was only God. God created Father to be the image of God to all. Just as he created his spirits to perform different tasks inside of creation. This is common knowledge to those in the know here and above.

edit on 31-8-2013 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

So you have zero verses to support your claim? That's fine, you invalidate your claim by specifically stating "Father" is apart from God, and is not God, therefore even if you're right, that has nothing to do with God having a physical body.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

So you have zero verses to support your claim? That's fine, you invalidate your claim by specifically stating "Father" is apart from God, and is not God, therefore even if you're right, that has nothing to do with God having a physical body.

This is not a claim, but what is. In the end, you will understand, as this information is not needed for the test of life for man here. It does, as Father is the physical/spiritual portion of God. Father is God inside of creation. Outside of creation, he is a piece of God, but not God in totality.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

So you have zero verses to support your claim? That's fine, you invalidate your claim by specifically stating "Father" is apart from God, and is not God, therefore even if you're right, that has nothing to do with God having a physical body.

This is not a claim, but what is. In the end, you will understand, as this information is not needed for the test of life for man here. It does, as Father is the physical/spiritual portion of God. Father is God inside of creation. Outside of creation, he is a piece of God, but not God in totality.

It's a claim with zero evidence to support it. What verses support it? In the interest of not derailing this thread it's my last response to this.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

So you have zero verses to support your claim? That's fine, you invalidate your claim by specifically stating "Father" is apart from God, and is not God, therefore even if you're right, that has nothing to do with God having a physical body.

This is not a claim, but what is. In the end, you will understand, as this information is not needed for the test of life for man here. It does, as Father is the physical/spiritual portion of God. Father is God inside of creation. Outside of creation, he is a piece of God, but not God in totality.

It's a claim with zero evidence to support it. What verses support it? In the interest of not derailing this thread it's my last response to this.

The OP asked about something because the Word in which you are given hints at many things of the inner workings of above, yet is not easily explained. Father gave the order to not allow certain explanations to be detailed in the Word, when it was given to man. This is because it opens up to too many questions, because the human mind can not comprehend many things. This is direct knowledge and common knowledge from above, that many are aware of.

Just as the Word does not explain why does your guide need to leave you for a time then return, why does Father go into his chambers and is not to be disturbed, why do some above have wings, and some do not, etc. This is because it has no bearing on ones life down here.

Father has a physical form only to the ones who are not in the physical, because they see in the physical and not in the spiritual. They see in the physical for proper protection of man. The ones whom protect (angels as some call them), need to be able to see physical objects to properly protect man from danger. For example, you are at the wheel and falling asleep, and there is a tire in the road, you get a feeling to look up at that very moment, because your guide has alerted you.

His form is for interaction with the ones above, not man, as man does not need to see Father. Before man was created, above in the physical sense looks as man does. When Father gave the order for the ones above to make man in his image, he was speaking of the physical form of above.

Also, physical form here is much different than physical form above. In the battles, a spirit can be wounded, but it is not the same being wounded here. Many may be thinking of the physical sense here when they think of form. So, Father does not have a human body form, no, but he does have a form for interaction.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Go back to this verse and think on what it says:

1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

We see dimly in a mirror. To see God's goodness pass by, Moses needed to be in a dark cave with God's hand (what he uses to do work) covering the view as he does his work. What did Moses then see? The aftereffects of this work. This is not simply a story of an event that happened one day. This is a way of encoding the entire story of the coming messiah and how this would allow undeserving people to see God's glory pass by.

19 He said: "I will let all My goodness pass before you; I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you, and I will favor when I wish to favor, and I will have compassion when I wish to have compassion."

You need to see this in terms of a prophecy of coming events in history. Moses was concerned about the Merit of the Patriarchs being enough to keep God from destroying the entire lot of humanity. God was showing Moses what would take place in the future as the people were scattered across the wilderness of history. The key to this is seeing 1 Corinthians 10 as a view of what baptism really represents.

See this thread: Hidden Mystery of Moses

If you get what I am saying here with baptism and how God is revealing his glory to the world first, you will get why the flood and the ark represents humanity entering the water to be saved from the cleansing of the land. This relates directly to God's work to separate the wicked from the righteous, but the righteous must be here on Earth to see this take place. Enoch says this here:

1.1 These are the words of the blessing of Enoch; according to which he
blessed the chosen and righteous who must be present on the day of
distress, which is appointed, for the removal of all the wicked and impious.
1.2 And Enoch began his story and said: -

He says, "The righteous MUST be present..."

Paul says the same thing here:

Acts 24

15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

There is a day in the future, states Paul, when BOTH the righteous and wicked will ALL be raised to together to see God's glory pass by (Passover). What happens at this time? God allows us a chance to amend as we learn of His attributes (Glory). This is known as a visitation.

See this Dead Sea Scroll.

Eyes Wide Open

"A text belonging to the Instructor, who is to enlighten and teach all the Sons of Light about the character and fate of humankind: all their spiritual varieties with accompanying signs, all their deeds generation by generation, and their visitation for afflictions together with eras of peace.

All that is now and ever shall be originates with the God of knowledge. Before things come to be, He has ordered all their designs, so that when they do come to exist—at their appointed times as ordained by His glorious plan—they fulfill their destiny, a destiny impossible to change. He controls the laws governing all things, and He provides for all their pursuits.

He created humankind to rule over the world, appointing for them two spirits in which to walk until the time ordained for His visitation. There are the spirits of truth and falsehood. Upright character and fate originate with the Habitation of Light; perverse, with the Fountain of Darkness. The authority of the Prince of Light extends to the governance of all righteous people; therefore, they walk in the paths of light. Correspondingly, the authority of the Angel of Darkness embraces the governance of all wicked people, so they walk in the paths of darkness. "

Read the rest of the document to see this in action, then go back to Exodus (Exiting Egypt and Entering the Promised Land) to see how this is a prophecy of coming attractions. In the Bible, God is always foreshadowing what we see next after the Day of the Lord. Why? The Bible is our Hitchhiker's Guide AFTER we exit this place. Once we are in glorified bodies, we enter a new Heaven and Earth. This book is then the reflecting point we use with UNDERSTANDING to guide us on our next journey. At that time, we will once again see God face to face as Adam and Eve did before the fall. Right now, we are in a cave watching God's glory pass by as His hand covers us as a veil. We will see clearly after this Age of 7000 years has passed. 1000 remain.

Back to the DSS instructor document:

"Through a gracious visitation all who walk in this spirit will know healing, bountiful peace, long life and multiple progeny, followed by eternal blessings and perpetual joy through life everlasting. They will receive a crown of glory with a robe of honor, resplendent forever and ever. "

From the Book of Enoch:

63.3 And everything secret is clear, in front of You, and your power is for
all generations, and your glory is forever and ever. Deep and without
number are all your secrets and your righteousness is beyond reckoning.
63.4 Now we realize that we ought to praise and bless the Lord of Kings
and the one who is King over all Kings.”

In front of you means in the past from a Hebraic perspective. The future is behind because you have not faced it yet. You are facing the past at each moment because you see it as already transpired.

81.2 And I looked at everything that was written and I noted everything.
And I read the book and everything that was written in it, all the deeds of
men, and all the children of flesh who will be upon the Earth, for all the
generations of eternity.
81.3 And then I immediately blessed the Lord, the Eternal King of Glory,
in that he has made all the works of the world, and I praised the Lord
because of his patience, and I blessed him on account of the sons of Adam.
81.4 And at that time I said: “Blessed is the man who dies righteous and
good, concerning whom no book of iniquity has been written, and against
whom no guilt has been found.”

This is a picture of the coming Messiah. As with Moses, the truth is hidden until it is revealed to us by experience. We cannot know the face of God until we know his passing glory as a reflecting point of what is right there in front of us the whole time.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

No. Father does not. Please show me what verses you use to come to this ridiculous conclusion. Did Father simply not exist before the universe was created?

Correct, there was only God. God created Father to be the image of God to all. Just as he created his spirits to perform different tasks inside of creation. This is common knowledge to those in the know here and above.

edit on 31-8-2013 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

So you have zero verses to support your claim? That's fine, you invalidate your claim by specifically stating "Father" is apart from God, and is not God, therefore even if you're right, that has nothing to do with God having a physical body.

Rev. 22:3-4

No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

Exodus 33:18-20

18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”

19 And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

No. You are now limiting God by him needing to be "freed up".

Why is it that what you are calling "limiting" God a bad thing? Just by saying that God is a distinct person, you are limiting God. Unless you want to say that you are God, and God is you, or that there is no "you", since all is one.
As soon as you say, "No, I am not God", then you just limited God.
People are distinct as "persons" one from another, that is what makes them persons.
The person, God, is distinct from me, that is what makes Him a person.
God is limited.

God does not need freeing up, God can be all places, at all moments of time, doing all things at once.

Let me put it this way, "why would God want to be everywhere?"

I find myself agreeing with OR on this even with the passages that WW gave. I think that makes more sense than an actual figure.


Frankly I am a bit surprised at all the varying opinions I had thought that this would have been established doctrine for most. I have a feeling that when it comes to matters of defining god that it may be a bit of a taboo subject in many circles.

Not having a established form certainly helps with the issue of omnipresence.

reply to post by Grimpachi

. . . I had thought that this would have been established doctrine for most.

Depends.
Take this verse for example,
Isaiah 40:12
Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand,
or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens?
Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket,
or weighed the mountains on the scales
and the hills in a balance?
(2011 NIV)
Do you take this to mean that God is constantly literally doing these things,
or do you understand it as being poetic hyperbole to exalt God's greatness.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Of course not especially when we know that those things are impossible for a human but when it comes to a GOD that is an intirely different story considering this god is supposed to have created the universe including the laws that govern it. I would think that those of that faith would make it a priority to properly define what is fact about the one they worship. I would think that would be very important which is why I am puzzled that there doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus on the matter unless it is a taboo subject.

reply to post by Grimpachi

. . . there doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus on the matter unless it is a taboo subject.

What is taboo is the biblical concept of the universe:
a flat disk surrounded by an ocean covered by a dome with torches attached.

reply to post by Grimpachi

Dear Grimpachi,

I believe we share frustrations with the answers to your OP. But, leaving that aside, it seems you'd like to know an "establishment" answer. Try this:

41 All creatures bear a certain resemblance to God, most especially man, created in the image and likeness of God. the manifold perfections of creatures - their truth, their goodness, their beauty all reflect the infinite perfection of God. Consequently we can name God by taking his creatures" perfections as our starting point, "for from the greatness and beauty of created things comes a corresponding perception of their Creator".

42 God transcends all creatures. We must therefore continually purify our language of everything in it that is limited, imagebound or imperfect, if we are not to confuse our image of God --"the inexpressible, the incomprehensible, the invisible, the ungraspable"-- with our human representations. Our human words always fall short of the mystery of God.

43 Admittedly, in speaking about God like this, our language is using human modes of expression; nevertheless it really does attain to God himself, though unable to express him in his infinite simplicity. Likewise, we must recall that "between Creator and creature no similitude can be expressed without implying an even greater dissimilitude"; and that "concerning God, we cannot grasp what he is, but only what he is not, and how other beings stand in relation to him."

356 of all visible creatures only man is "able to know and love his creator". He is "the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake", and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God's own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity:
What made you establish man in so great a dignity? Certainly the incalculable love by which you have looked on your creature in yourself! You are taken with love for her; for by love indeed you created her, by love you have given her a being capable of tasting your eternal Good.

357 Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. and he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead.

www.vatican.va...

Perhaps this is a clear, "establishment" answer to your question, but if not I'll look further.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


No I think that will work. The Vatican pretty much sets precedence on such issues. The fact that they included all creatures when saying in his image helps define things much better. I bet they had some debates on the subject before deciding on a statement like this. I will have to think on this a bit but their summary seems to have solved the quagmire I have been pondering.

ATM though I am running on fumes mentally for lack of sleep. It's been a rough week.

So thanks for finding and posting that it has been one of those things almost like pondering infinity.

reply to post by charles1952

Perhaps this is a clear, "establishment" answer to your question . . .

It looks like, to me, a statement, in a roundabout way, that it cannot be explained.
Kind of like my own statement, "very similar, but different".