Who Killed Kennedy?

One of my good friends in DOD was USAF Colonel Fletcher Prouty. He and I originally met because of our mutual involvement in Special Operations generally and PSYOP in particular. You may not have heard of him by name, but he was portrayed by Donald Sutherland as "X" in Oliver Stone's JFK.

As Fletch discussed it with me, the JFK assassination resulted from a much more complex situation. Quoting from my MindWar:

The postwar identity of Special Forces (SF) was conceived and implemented significantly by two U.S. Air Force officers, Major General Edward W. Lansdale (1908-1987) ["Y" in JFK] and Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty (1917-2001). Lansdale became an Unconventional Warfare (UW) legend and “man of mystery” during the 1950-53 Huk rebellion in the Philippines, which he significantly helped the Magsaysay government thwart through a creative propaganda campaign blending an active empathy for the populace’s perceived problems with an underlying and ultimately governing commitment to U.S. strategic interests.

In March 1954 the National Security Council published document #5412 defining U.S. covert operations, placing the CIA in charge with DOD providing personnel, base, and logistical support. All such operations were to be “plausibly deniable” and no active duty military personnel were to be involved in them. “This is the real reason why the so-called ‘air support’ myth got started after the Bay of Pigs. Everyone knew beforehand that no active duty military personnel could become involved. It had nothing to do with a JFK decision. McGeorge Bundy called off the JFK-directed air strike on D-Day, and that is what caused the failure.” [letter to me 7/2/95]

That same year CIA Director Allen Dulles created the Saigon Military Mission (which was CIA, not DOD) and assigned Lansdale to head it. Lansdale moved to South Vietnam, wherein he attempted a similar defeat of the National Liberation Front (aka “Viet Cong”) on behalf of the Diem government. Here, through continuing to be media-glamorized, he was not so successful, since the regime was dealing not with an indigenous movement but one deriving from and actively controlled by North Vietnam. [Lansdale was caricatured first in Graham Greene’s 1955 novel The Quiet American, then in William Lederer & Eugene Burdick’s 1958 response The Ugly American, both made into major Hollywood films.]

Prouty’s UW involvement began in 1955, when, as the USAF’s first Chief of Special Operations, he was both its liaison to the CIA’s MKULTRA and the creator of its global CIA operational USAF support system. [In MKULTRA Prouty worked primarily with Ewen Cameron, Louis Jolyon “Jolly” West, and Jim Monroe.] In 1960 he was assigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense where [under first Gates, then McNamara] he served in the same capacity for all the services. Simultaneously Lansdale had become the liaison between OSD and CIA. As Prouty recalls:

"Lansdale saw an opportunity to expand this combined tactical role even more. He planned to bring the SF, the CIA, and the Civil Affairs & Military Government (CAMG) people all together. He went down to talk with some friends at the Department of the Army, but the climate was not right and Ed could not get things going. It appeared that the Army did not much care for Special Warfare.

"This didn’t stop him, and he broadened his contacts to include the old Continental Army Command (CONARC), which supervised the CAMG School and provided him with its curriculum. This he divided among the three of us (Lansdale, Prouty, and Sam Wilson - Wilson was a veteran of the WW2 Merrill’s Marauders). The result was the new SF curriculum at Fort Bragg in 1960, following the JFK election but prior to his inauguration. By the time the SF School began these classes in late 1960, a number of the key officers and instructors were actually CIA under military cover. I was there for the first classes just to see how things worked out. When it was ready for a formal commencement, Deputy SecDef James Douglas did the honors. This is how the Special Warfare concepts were put in motion and how the 'Green Berets' got their send-off - and got removed from the 'Post Strike' role. It was not a JFK deal in any way until 1961, and then only inferentially." [letter to me 7/2/95]

Following JFK’s 1961 inauguration Lansdale was summoned to the White House to brief the new President on the Vietnam situation, and returned to tell Prouty “I believe I have a chance for the Ambassadorship.” After the Bay of Pigs disaster, however, the CIA was non grata in the Administration, and Lansdale’s hopes were dashed. He was relegated to running the CIA’s MONGOOSE operation against Cuba, and only after the JFK assassination did the next President Lyndon Johnson reassign him to Vietnam 1965-7. But by then the Vietnam War had escalated beyond Lansdale’s possible control.

Lansdale, according to Prouty, executed the JFK assassination with MONGOOSE assets. “He had hundreds of trained and skilled men whom he could use to flesh out the cover story that the true decision-makers had to have to protect the real hit team, and create the three decades of cover story that has embarrassed American citizens since that date. Without such a cover story the murder and resultant coup d’etat could not have been achieved so effectively. JFK would not give him that Ambassadorship for which he would have killed. What else could he do?” [letter to me 7/2/95]

reply to post by maquino

Lansdale, according to Prouty, executed the JFK assassination with MONGOOSE assets.

Frank Sturgis, Virgilio Gonzalez? Were the Watergate Plumbers in any way related with MONGOOSE?

I believe it probably was Oswald but whether or not he was acting completely alone I have no idea. I doubt it.

BrianFlanders
I believe it probably was Oswald but whether or not he was acting completely alone I have no idea. I doubt it.

I believe that Oswald was a Manchurian Candidate. That means he had handlers... and we know that LHO was handled from the time he entered the Marines until the very day of the JFK assassination.

That means Gerald Ford and the Warren Commission were wrong.

In fact, Gerald Ford is not even the man's given name. The history shows that "Gerald Ford, Jr." was born as "Leslie Lynch King, Jr.; July 14, 1913".

Deny Ignorance, ATS.

Give a listen to the 11/27 and 12/18 broadcasts of "Guns & Butter" here. Sheesh. It's beginning to look like just about everyone in and around Dealey Plaza was gunning for JFK that day, with the exception of Jackie and Oswald. [I think we can assume that Jack didn't blow his own brains out with a concealed automatic.]

Come to think of it, maybe Jackie did do him in like Brigid O'Shaughnessy. My dad's girlfriend in Santa Barbara was an old flame of Jack's and had a roll in the hay with him for old time's sake while he and Jackie were in SB for their honeymoon at the San Ysidro Ranch. Bea had an impressive collection of JFK mash notes & gifts in her home. She was a bigshot Montecito RE broker who had previously been, of all things, a NYC harbor tugboat captain.

I guess Jackie leveled the karma, because according to this (which is another terrifyingly data-intensive book) she was getting it on with Bobby within 6 months after Dallas. This squares with what my friend Sammy Davis privately told me, as he had a ringside seat to the whole JFK/RFK/MM frolic, in which Sinatra's Rat Pack & other sinister types were involved. Nobody taught me any of this in my high school civics classes.

reply to post by maquino


You sound like you have some very good stories and memories. More please. Thanks! EDIT: Oh, wait, I just recognized you from the large thread. Anyway, that said, more please!

Weren't there some documents and information that were to be kept secret for 50 years, and then declassified?

I think Oswald killed JFK; I've never seen any credible evidence that shows he was helped by anyone.

Ranb

Ranb40
I think Oswald killed JFK; I've never seen any credible evidence that shows he was helped by anyone.

Ranb

Danish ophthalmologist Jens Thygesen claim to have found shooters partially hiding behind the Picket Fence at Grassy Knoll with his medical equipment www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem= The Warren Commission allegedly ignored testimony of 7 witnesses who saw gunsmoke in the area of Stockade Fence on the Grassy Knoll, as well as an eighth witness who smelled gunpowder at the time of the assassination.
Julia Ann Mercer claim she saw two men in a green Ford pickup, one of them took a long paper bag with what appeared to be the outline of a rifle and walked toward the Grassy Knoll. Jean Hill claim as she looked up the Grassy Knoll she saw a shadowy figure of a man holding a rifle partially hidden behind the wooden fence. As Malcolm Summers ran up the Grassy Knoll after the shots he found a man in a suit with an overcoat over his arm and saw a gun under that coat. Summers claim he was then threatened by this “mysterious gun man” that if he got any closer he would get shot or killed.

According to the Warren Commission Report, Lee Harvey Oswald was in the Texas School Book Depository and blame him for all the shots, shooting JFK from behind. However, the real Oswald with brown eyes allegedly “defected” to the Soviet Union, then taken into custody by the russians, brutally interrogated and later killed. The russians supposedly then sent a “Oswald” look alike to the United States, but shorter height, thinner hair, blue eyes, english speaking with eastern european accent. One of the mistakes this “Oswald” supposedly made was that he wrote in his paper that he lived in New Orleans in the state of Texas.
E. Howard Hunt, among others, claim “Oswald” was a patsy. James Files who claim to have known “Oswald” also claim that “Oswald” did not participate in the shootings.
Richard Cain or Chuck Nicoletti allegedly fired the first shots at JFK’s back from Texas Book Depository building.
The Zapruder film shows that the fatal headshot forced JFK’s head backwards, which proves the headshot came from the front, from the Grassy Knoll direction. Some of his brain matter was blown out of the exit wound at the rear of his head, landed on the back of the limousine, behind JFK and Jackie. Jackie Kennedy crawled onto the back of the limousine and tried to collect it. After she got back to the backseat she said “They’ve killed my husband, and I have his brain in my hand”.
www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=

The Shadow Government allegedly orchestrated the JFK assassination plans, and James Files (former Sutton, allegedly served in the U.S. Army, marksman) testified he was the Grassy Knoll man who fired the fatal headshot.
www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=

reply to post by Grifter42


Who do I think killed Kennedy, of course the man who took over - Lyndon B Johnson. He made sure Kennedy went to Dallas, had a car with no roof and was the only one capable of getting the CIA to do his dirty work and kill over 100 witnesses who have died mysteriously anytime someone offered new proof. Killed Bobby also. Johnson was about to be kicked off of the Kennedy ticket which meant Johnson could never become president so he ordered the hit and made it all happen. Study the facts that are out there to the public, and watch the video, no way Oswald did it. And he had to be silenced before his innocence could be proved.

Conspyrosonic
Danish ophthalmologist Jens Thygesen claim to have found shooters partially hiding behind the Picket Fence at Grassy Knoll with his medical equipment www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=

Why should this guy be believed?

ConspyrosonicThe Warren Commission allegedly ignored testimony of 7 witnesses who saw gunsmoke in the area of Stockade Fence on the Grassy Knoll, as well as an eighth witness who smelled gunpowder at the time of the assassination.

Really? Who were these people? Got names?

Conspyrosonic.... the real Oswald with brown eyes allegedly “defected” to the Soviet Union, then taken into custody by the russians, brutally interrogated and later killed.

Your evidence to support this claim is?

ConspyrosonicThe Zapruder film shows that the fatal headshot forced JFK’s head backwards, which proves the headshot came from the front, from the Grassy Knoll direction.

Complete BS. A fluid filled target can eject material from both the entrance and exit wounds, the target can also move towards the direction of the shooter when hit. I have done this with my own high powered rifles at a rifle range.

ConspyrosonicThe Shadow Government allegedly orchestrated the JFK assassination plans, and James Files (former Sutton, allegedly served in the U.S. Army, marksman) testified he was the Grassy Knoll man who fired the fatal headshot.

A publicity whore like Files is not exactly credible is he?

Ranb

Ranb40
I think Oswald killed JFK; I've never seen any credible evidence that shows he was helped by anyone.

Ranb

Care to point to your evidence that Oswald did the deed? There were NO slugs (officially) recovered from either Kennedy or John Connolly. Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig and Buddy Walthers saw an FBI agent pick up a 45 slug on Elm Street.

My general impression is that you've already got your mind made up and I don't tilt at windmills... As a couple of young guys with a video blog said during the anniversary, it will take all us old "conspiracy geezers" passing away before the day can come and go in peace.

You can believe what you want, but the same people that fingered Oswald also used the Gulf of Tonkin incident (a lie) to drag us into Vietnam.

Ranb40
I think Oswald killed JFK; I've never seen any credible evidence that shows he was helped by anyone.

Ranb

50 years of research shows that Oswald was indeed 'helped' in many unusual instances. He was helped with State department loans and expedited travel documents; he was helped with numerous convenient job opportunities, 'helped' by Marina's 'friends' in the Dallas White Russian immigrant community;

Oswald was indeed 'helped', but the better way to say is that Oswald was "handled" - every_ step_ of_ the_ way...

I literally just stumbled on this in the last few hours. You can bet I'll be doing some digging as to veracity, but if this is even 80% reality then I'm staggered again in a year that provided me with more back story than the last 25 combined.

If Oswald never really BOUGHT that POS Italian rifle (it was jokingly called the world's first "humanitarian" weapon because it missed more targets than it hit), then this throws a whole new fly in the ointment, doesn't it?

Lee Harvey Oswald never bought a rifle.

My impression is that the facts of what actually happened that day are being put out there in small, digestible bites while allowing the population at large to remain ignorant if they so choose...

The last four months, especially, have been a roller coaster of emotions and new insights that have left me a bit shaken but thankful. That day changed my life and my country. Each new bit of the puzzle has forced me to expand my capacity to assimilate what was once unthinkable. With each portion of new "elbow room" in my thought processes, more new (previously hidden) facts arise.

How many of you know that Texas Governor John Connally wasn't supposed to be in the presidential limousine? There was a bitter argument between JFK & LBJ about Connally. Johnson had wanted Texas Democratic Senator Ralph Yarborough in Kennedy's car. Kennedy stood his ground and insisted that it was inappropriate to have the governor of the state in any limo but his. Johnson's hit-man of choice, Malcolm “Mac” Wallace (who can be connected to the SBD by a fingerprint in the so called sniper's nest), probably wouldn't have had knowledge of the change in seating arrangements. He DID, however, know that LBJ loathed Yarborough. That puts Connally's, "My God, there gonna kill us all!" once the bullets started to fly in an entirely new context, n'est-ce pas?

If you are reading this and happen to be one of those who still think it was Oswald and he acted alone, I suggest you read:

Best Evidence: Disguise and Deception in the Assassination of John F. Kennedy by David S. Lifton

And

Trauma Room One: The JFK Medical Coverup Exposed by Charles A. Crenshaw

Why you ask? Because the wound in Kennedy's back Was Not the entry wound for the Magic Bullet. The doctors at Parkland probed the wound and found that the projectile had caused only minimal penetration, they could feel the end of the wound with their fingertip. Lest you suggest that the pristine Magic Bullet appeared after working itself out of JFK's back, it was NOT found in the car or on the Kennedy gurney. Likewise, the throat wound was an entry wound before being used to create an airway. Since the Bethesda autopsy dissected none of the wounds, the contrivance of a Magic Bullet was made much easier...

Here's a brand new article naming the SIX shooters that killed our president.

Six JFK Shooters, Three Tied To CIA, Named–Oswald not among them

Also, a companion video:

SayonaraJupiter
50 years of research shows that Oswald was indeed 'helped' in many unusual instances. He was helped with State department loans and expedited travel documents; he was helped with numerous convenient job opportunities, 'helped' by Marina's 'friends' in the Dallas White Russian immigrant community;

Oswald was indeed 'helped', but the better way to say is that Oswald was "handled" - every_ step_ of_ the_ way...

Everyone living in any reasonable society is helped in some way or another. Were the loans and documents he received handled any differently than anyone else in his position? When I married a foreign national, we were able to obtain help in one form or another from other ex-pats in the area, there is nothing unusual about this. What would be unusual is anyone going it absolutely alone.

Ranb

CornShucker
I literally just stumbled on this in the last few hours. You can bet I'll be doing some digging as to veracity, but if this is even 80% reality then I'm staggered again in a year that provided me with more back story than the last 25 combined.

The claims in that video are rather old. Did you notice that the photos in the video don't support what the narrator is claiming?

CornShuckerIf Oswald never really BOUGHT that POS Italian rifle

How do you know? He had his picture taken by his wife holding a rifle just like the one alleged to have been sold to Hidel. Oswald would not be the first to purchase a gun using an alias.

CornShucker
(it was jokingly called the world's first "humanitarian" weapon because it missed more targets than it hit), then this throws a whole new fly in the ointment, doesn't it?

Not at all. Are you at all familiar with the shot to hit ratio of military firearms? Here is a clue for you. usmilitary.about.com...
I'm familiar with the Carcano rifle, I own and shoot one. What experience do you have with these rifles other than repeating nonsense you read on the internet?

Ranb

CornShucker
Here's a brand new article naming the SIX shooters that killed our president.

Six JFK Shooters, Three Tied To CIA, Named–Oswald not among them

You mean the article written by the anti-semite, hate mongering, idiot who once tried to convince me that men have not landed on the moon? That Jim Fetzer? He probably thinks that you're an idiot for believing the crap he tries to sell.

Ranb

reply to post by Ranb40


Guess we'll just disagree...

Wanted to thank you for the link. I bookmarked it, there is a lot of interesting stuff on that site. All I've ever shot is 22 single shot. Even then, it was only to plink cans. Hunting never appealed to me, I can go the store for meat for the table. Will admit, though, that I have an in-law that has given us delicious venison steaks and baloney over the years.

I was only going by what I've seen expressed by others as far as the Carcano. You are the first I've heard say anything good about it. The one Oswald supposedly used was so out of whack that they eventually had to put three shims under the scope before it could be tested at the distance Oswald supposedly hit. The Warren Commission Report actually includes a picture of the three shims. Sorry, but I have no link and don't own the DVD.

Sounds like you know more about Fetzer than me. For now, I'll keep your opinion of him in mind. I never turn down the chance to be educated on this subject.

Hope you have a fantastic 2014.