Evolution Vs. God

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

Another, the evolution of birds.

The discovery that birds evolved from small carnivorous dinosaurs of the Late Jurassic was made possible by recently discovered fossils from China, South America, and other countries, as well as by looking at old museum specimens from new perspectives and with new methods. The hunt for the ancestors of living birds began with a specimen of Archaeopteryx, the first known bird, discovered in the early 1860s. Like birds, it had feathers along its arms and tail, but unlike living birds, it also had teeth and a long bony tail. Furthermore, many of the bones in Archaeopteryx's hands, shoulder girdles, pelvis, and feet were distinct, not fused and reduced as they are in living birds. Based on these characteristics, Archaeopteryx was recognized as an intermediate between birds and reptiles; but which reptiles?

Link

We have transition fossils. We know evolution by natural selection, as well as genetic mutations, are the reasons for these fossils.

Homologous organs are another example of evolution, and you don't need fossils to see it.

Tendrils and spines are both modified leaves. We know this because of analysis of the tissue types. Each evolved separately to fill different roles in different environments, and each can be traced back to leaves.

Not God.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by ZeroReady

 

Again, no explanation, but more dribble and dross. Fossils prove dead creatures, not evolution. If there were any transition fossils showing change in kind Then I would still ignore it even if it sat on my lap and told me what it wanted for Christmas.
It's obvious though that one more useless pro evo post is supposed to somehow mean it's true. It's doesn't prove anything but your intellectual dishonesty.

So what is it called when its completely dishonest without any intellectual underlining?

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

Or maybe the universality of the genetic code would convince you that everything evolved from a common ancestor.

In all life studied to date, there exists one single type of genetic code, which has been passed down through the generations. Many pieces of the code throughout different species are the same. For example the three nucleotides in DNA which code to produce the vital amino acid phenylalanine (AAA) is the same in every single organism on the planet, from shrimp to us. This is because we evolved from a common ancestor.

ZeroReady

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

Explain why there are ZERO transitional fossils proving evolution.

Every fossil is a transitional fossil. Evolution never stops. Everything is constantly adapting to the challenges of the environment. You're looking for the exact point where one species becomes another. That isn't how evolution works. You have to remember we're dealing with timescales that we aren't mentally equipped to understand.

Keep in mind ZeroReady, we are dealing with folks who think that the earth is only 10,000 or so years old. The fact that fossils, cave art and artifacts dating back much farther than 10,000 years are constantly being discovered, it all falls on their deaf ears and kills their point in my opinion. I believe that is the main reason they use minimal insignificant numbers for their "game of chance" theories with the dice or the coins. 10,000 yrs VS 4 or 5 billion years. I might be a little more prone to the idea of creationism if the god they worship actually wrote the bible they believe in and started from day one 4,000,000,000+ years ago, hell they could even edit down to a few million of so pages and then have Nancy Pelosi plug it and tell people we need to believe in it before we can find out whats in it. These people live in wet blankets that smell of frankincense and myrrh, and rest on unanswered prayers all the while laying their heads on the works of men who are not gods.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by ZeroReady

 

Again, no explanation, but more dribble and dross. Fossils prove dead creatures, not evolution. If there were any transition fossils showing change in kind there would not be a discussion on this. It's obvious though that one more useless pro evo post is supposed to somehow mean it's true. It's doesn't prove anything but your intellectual dishonesty.

Oh... and one more useless anti evo post is supposed to somehow mean it's false? Especially when it’s been shown that most of the creationist “quotes” you’ve posted have been shown to be either misquoted or taken out of context. You may want to rethink remarking about someone else’s intellectual dishonesty.

reply to post by Pauligirl


So you are saying what we saw Dawkins say he didn't say? That no scientists have said that evolutionists lack evidence?

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by Pauligirl

 

So you are saying what we saw Dawkins say he didn't say? That no scientists have said that evolutionists lack evidence?

Nope, wasn't talking about Dawkins. I was referring to the creationist “quotes” you’ve posted here and in your other threads, that have been shown to be either misquoted or taken out of context.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by Pauligirl

 

So you are saying what we saw Dawkins say he didn't say? That no scientists have said that evolutionists lack evidence?

I am its called context my good man. Did you bother to understand the context of the question. Do you really believe the man that wrote Evolution the greatest show on earth doesnt believe he can prove evolution??????? Really come on now even you have to admit maybe hes being miss quoted.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Look you can say that evolutionists lack evidence, or you can be more accurate and say that there are gaps in the fossil record. Even though I just showed you all the evidence you asked for and then some.

1. Whale transitions
   
2. Universal genetic code
   
3. The evolution of birds
   
4. Tendrils and spines
   

There are gaps in the fossil record because the conditions required to form fossils are not universal. Fossil formation is biased towards organisms in an aquatic environment. Also deserts, tar pits, and the arctic. But most places, like jungles and prairies, where all the really interesting animals are, generally will not leave any remains for very long.

And we don't have much data on soft tissue. Only hard structures like wood, bone, coral. And biologists recognize that many transitional forms are missing, however there are plenty of complete transitional forms being studied which point toward evolution. Due to the nature of fossilization and the various cataclysms undergone by our planet it's amazing that we've dug up anything at all. But we have.

Biologists don't just stick God in wherever they can't find an answer. Science takes time, and paleontology is complicated. Saying that a giraffe's head doesn't explode because God made it that way is not showing any kind of evidence whatsoever.

I've shown you all that stuff about whales and pea tendrils and you can't or won't see it. I don't understand why.

UnifiedSerenity
I have already answered you, and you just apparently can't read it. There was the change between ages, and then there was Noah's flood that I don't believe was world wide by regional. You all like to bombard with lots of questions, but I notice all you do with what I present is say, "That's not true". You offer nothing of substance with regard to the facts presented.

Wait, you either believe bible word for word or not at all. There is no middle ground, isn't that what all faiths start with? From what I see, you don't believe much in stuff you trying to sell us?! So either Bible is very regional, or flood was world-wide (why otherwise build such a huge ship to withhold waves and rain for what, 40 days?

So let's clear this up - did big flood really happen or not? Do we believe Bible or not? Please be more precise - show in scripts where it said it is local.

UnifiedSerenity
Answer how proteins happen by chance when they can't mathematically. Explain how cows become whales. Explain why there are ZERO transitional fossils proving evolution. Explain how Giraffes evolved, explain how woodpeckers evolved, explain how life comes from non-life.

I have already left links that explain how woodpecker evolved. If you think that one bird decided to drill hole over night, you very wrong. It takes time that people who wrote bible could not even think about... In that time Giraffes become what they are today as well. Adopting, surviving, generation after generation, changing... Not over night, but slowly, without much caring that someone will believe everything was created in 6 days?!

Speaking of beginning of the world, do you know what Egyptians believed how world started?

UnifiedSerenity

You all can't but you do point to your cute drawings made up by people pushing a faith, and using material already dismissed by scientists as not viable. You all can repeat your stories over and over, and you can deny God as presented in the bible, but that doesn't make your theory of evolution true.

We don't deny God. Simple - there is no fact that it exist nor does not exist.

Only followers of faith are the one that are dismissing all known facts just because folks who wrote some 'incredible' stories back 2000 years ago did not know better.

Sorry, but looks like you are really holding straws here.... no argument, no fact... just pure faith...

I have this very deep suspicion that this entire topic is not a black/white, either/or thing. The answer probably really does lie at the intersection of the two. And how fast we get to the answer, which may in all probability be to the question of what divides and what unites, depends on how we take the journey.

And another deep suspicion? Our journey is being derailed. Probably by those who are afraid of or don't want us to get to that place. Ya know?

reply to post by ~Lucidity


No, we don't know.

Care to elaborate?

reply to post by ZeroReady


Do not say you do not understand you do. In his head he believes if god didnt create the animals like the bible said then his belief in god is shattered. And people dont give up on there beliefs even when proven wrong. They simply make up excuses as to why it turned out that way. None of us wouldever convince him we could have a time machine take him back to each stage of development and he would still find a way to say evolution is wrong. See you see all these intelligent design people working feverishly to disprove evolution because they feel they have to. But on the other side evolutionist (not sure if i like this word) are not trying to disprove god they could care less really. If Catholics stopped trying to push there beliefs on to others you would never hear from atheists at all.

Funniest part is evolution isnt a threat to god if you believe in him and evolution is true simply re write the religion its been done before.Heck create a new one even George Lucas started one its the jedi church. And you get to use the cool catch phrase, May the force be with you. Come on cool right? Unfortunately you dont get a light saber or i would have so been there.

reply to post by dragonridr


You know what is really funny is you have not proved anything. As far as my beliefs go, I am not your typical Christian. I am one of the few who questions everything. I am satisfied that the world, the universe was created by God. You have shown me nothing to believe otherwise. There is nothing to truly back up what evolution teaches beyond micro evolution which is just adaptation. Adaptation does not prove we came from common ancestors, does not show how life started, does not deal with Fibonacci sequence or golden ratio.

I don't fit in either the normal Christian camp or your anti-God camp. I find it amazingly funny that you all will turn to a believe in Aliens doing and yet not think God did it. Why do you hate God so much? The stars reveal the very truth of God and I am not talking about astrology. I am talking about the story written their by God where no man could mess with it.

Check out EW Bullingers "Witness of the Stars".

This video is not the best quality, so I will post a few different under it that covers this. I do like Capt's work and this video is great, but the sound does have a few problems. The text is great to read in the above link, and very clear.









I know those who don't like the bible will not want to watch these, but if you want to learn, have an open mind to listen, critique and examine, then this study if very interesting. It shows that the word of God in the bible is true, and that should give many a reason to see the stars in a new light.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by dragonridr

 

You know what is really funny is you have not proved anything. As far as my beliefs go, I am not your typical Christian. I am one of the few who questions everything. I am satisfied that the world, the universe was created by God. You have shown me nothing to believe otherwise. There is nothing to truly back up what evolution teaches beyond micro evolution which is just adaptation. Adaptation does not prove we came from common ancestors, does not show how life started, does not deal with Fibonacci sequence or golden ratio.

I don't fit in either the normal Christian camp or your anti-God camp. I find it amazingly funny that you all will turn to a believe in Aliens doing and yet not think God did it. Why do you hate God so much? The stars reveal the very truth of God and I am not talking about astrology. I am talking about the story written their by God where no man could mess with it.

Check out EW Bullingers "Witness of the Stars".

This video is not the best quality, so I will post a few different under it that covers this. I do like Capt's work and this video is great, but the sound does have a few problems. The text is great to read in the above link, and very clear.

I know those who don't like the bible will not want to watch these, but if you want to learn, have an open mind to listen, critique and examine, then this study if very interesting. It shows that the word of God in the bible is true, and that should give many a reason to see the stars in a new light.

edit on 14-9-2013 by UnifiedSerenity because: (no reason given)

Wasnt talking about what kind of christian you are only that because you have strongly held beliefs facts will not sway you in the least. We see it again in your post you say god created the universe end of story your done. when people have pointed out your wrong shown you why your wrong but yet you do not see it? Your blinded by faith wjen some one shows you evolution explains how it works and your response put up something you found on a creationist web site. Which everyone here has seen before i might add. Do you really think this is the first thread trying to disprove evolution? And there will be many more after this one is forgotten usually by people that just found there faith they delve in to these sights and go wow see proof there is a god. Of course they dont realize there only being told part of the truth and its highly censored and sanctioned. As-salamu alaykum

So from evolution we are going into starts. Let's get couple things straight - first of all, we do not hate God. I already said, there is nothing to prove its existence, thus you can't hate something that does not exist. This is just mythical believe among those that instead of reason use faith to learn and discover world.

On the other hand, I have nothing positive about religious organizations that caused and are still causing suffering, killing, abuse of many kinds, inequality, etc. All religions are based on books that support slavery (Christianity, Islam) or cast system (Hindu religions).

Your biblical studies that you posted in latest videos (and not sure why we are moving from one topic to another) are not much different then discussion about Star Wars or Harry Potter.

And no matter if your creator is all mighty God, or aliens that spread life on our planet - who created creator / how did creator come to be?

Please, try just to think for a second, without trying to find connection between your thoughts and bible. Open your mind to possibility that all different religions on world, including extinct one are just either proof that God either could not made his mind or that people copied what they liked from somewhere else and made their tool to control masses. First one have build temples and pyramids, later ones kind of hold whole world in primitive middle age - where any idea that was against religion doctrine lead to sure death...

So once more - no we don't hate God. It simply does not exist. But no, we don't love those who use excuse of afterlife to control masses. As late Christopher Hitchens used to say - they should be ridiculed and that is what we are seeing here... loosing ground.

This is what I call honest people with open mind:



First they voted with question if Catholic Church is force of good in world. They did the same after debate. Guess how result has changed.

If you don't have 2 hours to watch it, I suggest you watch this shorter version:



Good night

reply to post by ZeroReady


Showing leg bones or "hand" bones of fully developed animals does not mean that is a transition fossil. A transition fossil would be seeing that dinosaur that is turning into a bird slowly over millions of years as it's digit extends longer and longer, inch by inch to make the wing, and it's bones becoming less dense, and it's structure slowly changing. We don't get that. We get drawings of it, we get movies of it, but we don't get fossils of it.

We get fossils of completely developed animals.

Why is it so hard to imagine that God had a design that worked. Hmmm, I want to make animals that can move around, Leg's seem like a good idea. I want animals that can fly, so I put wings on some, and they need less dense bones. I want food for them to eat, so I make plants of various kinds, and I need something to clean up the world when things die, so I make bacteria and animals that can eat the decaying things.

Wow, we the animals all have hearts, and nerves, and stomachs because God likes his system. When the motorcycle was made, it didn't need a whole new way of gaining power. They used an engine, but it couldn't be just like a car engine, but it has similar parts to it. Why? Because they work!

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

Who created God?

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by ZeroReady

 

A transition fossil would be seeing that dinosaur that is turning into a bird slowly over millions of years as it's digit extends longer and longer, inch by inch to make the wing, and it's bones becoming less dense, and it's structure slowly changing.

Really? How do you expect to get that from a handful of examples? The reason that the fossil record is slim pickins has already been explained.

You ask much of one side and let the other get by with nothing more than words and the promise that those words are from god himself and shall not be altered.

"Who created God?" If you can't answer that question to the full and complete satisfaction of current scientific knowledge, then you have bigger things to be concerned about than debunking evolutionary theory.