Russia: The use of force without the approval of the UN is a very grave violation of int'l law

The one thing about the chemical attack I cannot understand is why neither side (US or Russia) produced evidence of where the shells came from and who was occupying the area at the time? Both would have supervisors in the area or both could talk to front line troops. Neither has seem to produce evidence.

reply to post by templar knight


Russia said it has satellite images and that rebels probably did it. Rebels have their own groups which hate each other and will be at war as soon as Assad is gone. This possibility has a good chance to be true.

All Obama has to do is to pick up the phone and ask for those tapes if this is true. Instead he cancelled his meeting with Russian representatives.

reply to post by Swills
I like what the one Russian said (read on drudge) The Americans are acting like a monkey playing with a hand grenade. I personally want nothing to do with any of this. Do we have 100% proof who used the chems? Nope, I don't think so. I have a real bad feeling about this...................not good, not good at all. One more thing. Doesn't Hagel always look drunk?

1 - I am completely against us doing anything in Syria. We need to stay out of it.

2 - But at the same time .. I am completely against anyone having to go through the U.N. for anything. It's a corrupt cesspool and worse than useless.

Originally posted by justwokeup
Some people are anti-usa but those people are just the usual suspects and easily spotted.

I'm not anti-usa, nor am I anti uk. Consider myself a loyal citizen of the UK.

What I am anti is stupidity, and more specifically stupidity enacted through dishonesty. I don't believe whats being put into place here is sensible and in the long term interests of the British or American public.

After the Iraq debacle the governments and security services are entitled to no benefit of the doubt at all. I supported the 2003 Iraq adventure as I believed the authorities. It turned out the whole thing was a ruse based on pure unadulterated bull poo.

If we are to believe Assad signed his own death warrant out of stupidity or madness we demand hard and independently (UN) verified evidence. Refusing to swallow the same # sandwich twice is not anti american.

Exactly, I am not anti-US either, I love my Country and I would fight and die in order to defend it. What I am sick and tired of is all the lies and liars who push them. I understand what is going on, and what is going on is that we have been in a silent black war with Russia and Red China for the last 23 years or more. It's called the battle for resources, and it's also being fought behind the scenes.

If we just sit back and allow them to influence everyone else, that could end up biting us back in the future. I realize that in this day and age, we in the West can't afford to sit back and be isolationists. However with that being said, isn't this a bit over kill? I mean, let's just get down to the point instead of regime changing all these other Nations over there.

Where exactly does a policy like that end? It could end very bad for us all when it's all said and done. We should be using a little commonsense even when fighting for our survival, which is clearly what we are doing. We don't need another War in the Middle East. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by templar knight
The one thing about the chemical attack I cannot understand is why neither side (US or Russia) produced evidence of where the shells came from and who was occupying the area at the time? Both would have supervisors in the area or both could talk to front line troops. Neither has seem to produce evidence.

Even assuming Russia and US have supervisors in the area - which is certainly not the case for US and doubtfully for Russians ,and assuming those supervisors want to find the truth and not what they were sent to find in order to confirm positions of their respected governments:
Syria is in the middle of civil war. Considerable number of Syrian troops with Syrian military equipment joined rebels.
Rebels use guerilla tactics ,there is hardly any front line. Control shifts daily and Syrian army is constantly engaged in whac- a-mole "game" with rebels. Military camps known to be raided and so equipment can be stolen.
Now given all that - say US supervisor finds Syrian shells with traces of chemical weapon that went off in rebel-controlled area. Can he really be sure that Assad gave the order to use it or even that Assad forces fired it at all ,without any additional data? There are lots of other possibilities.
The only evidence that can be actually found amidst lies and horrors of civil war is if those weapons were used. Who used them will be unknown, spinned by each side for its own interests.

Originally posted by neo96
So is arms selling RUSSIA!

actually IS arms selling to LEGITIMATE governments illegal? i suspect it IS NOT. on the other hand selling/giving arms to terrorist "rebels" like the US is and has been doing IS ILLEGAL.

You know since you and your other 'allies' are enabling Assad killing his own citizens.

just like the US and her allies are giving weapons to the terrorist REBELS to kill those SAME citizens.

Isn't international arms dealing a 'violation' of international law ?

isn't arms dealing to legitimate governments legal? i would hope so since the US id HEAVILY involved in that trade. on the other hand "arms dealing" to "rebels, and insurgents" like the US is doing IS illegal

as was debated and debated years ago "one man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter". tho back then it was the US on the end of hunting down these "terrorists/freedom fighters" and countries supporting and harboring these "evil doers" would be dealt with. and now of late it seems to be the US yet again supporting these "terrorists". :shk:

Report: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria

A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria.

LINK

Putin seems to follow through on all his promises and for that he has my respect. But at the same time this could mean all out world war. He has always done what he seems fit and doesn't give a crap about what the rest of the world says. I think it would be a grave mistake to call his bluff on this one.

"We believe that the Syrian regime is the best speaker on behalf of the Syrian people, and not those liver eaters” -- Quote by Putin.

Originally posted by generik

Originally posted by neo96
So is arms selling RUSSIA!

actually IS arms selling to LEGITIMATE governments illegal? i suspect it IS NOT. on the other hand selling/giving arms to terrorist "rebels" like the US is and has been doing IS ILLEGAL.

You know since you and your other 'allies' are enabling Assad killing his own citizens.

just like the US and her allies are giving weapons to the terrorist REBELS to kill those SAME citizens.

Isn't international arms dealing a 'violation' of international law ?

isn't arms dealing to legitimate governments legal? i would hope so since the US id HEAVILY involved in that trade. on the other hand "arms dealing" to "rebels, and insurgents" like the US is doing IS illegal

as was debated and debated years ago "one man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter". tho back then it was the US on the end of hunting down these "terrorists/freedom fighters" and countries supporting and harboring these "evil doers" would be dealt with. and now of late it seems to be the US yet again supporting these "terrorists". :shk:

edit on 27-8-2013 by generik because: (no reason given)

If I had a rack of five stars... the lynchpin of this whole Mideast cauldron full
is legitimacy. And we're swinging that cauldron over a 3500 year old fire with it.

I side with and presently join a growing quorum on ATS to pronounce with them
in one voice "NO SYRIA WAR!", if for no other reason to protest a departure from
common sense. In light of V.Putin's reprisal pledge against the Saudis, vehemently.

To support the post:
I suppose if the governing body of the world's governing bodies is by definition
morally bankrupt, and the pure public opinion of each of the nations participating
in the carnage defines the government doin' the deal illegitimate: I suppose whatever
equally whacked out media crapsquirter is going to rhetorically prop up the mafia
with the biggest bankroll we've got a good guy and a bad guy. Forget the rule of
law, we're into the total confounding of basic survival instincts now. It's how we roll.

It's like Chicago Traffic Court gone global, I believe laughing in the face of death
is the only way to sanely flip off the coil now. You could get a double prefrontal
hernia trying to wrap your brain around this lately, it's intellectally all gone too.

One sure consolation is that no eternal flavor of damnation could possibly exist,
much less properly function as managed by this lot. Arrrr...

good god, what world do we live in when Russia starts to make sense and we're the ones turning into the Gestapo?

My theory: this all ties into benghazi somehow....

Originally posted by flyingfish
Report: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria

A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria.

LINK

Putin seems to follow through on all his promises and for that he has my respect. But at the same time this could mean all out world war. He has always done what he seems fit and doesn't give a crap about what the rest of the world says. I think it would be a grave mistake to call his bluff on this one.

"We believe that the Syrian regime is the best speaker on behalf of the Syrian people, and not those liver eaters” -- Quote by Putin.

That doesn't seem like a legitimate news story or source at all. Don't buy into everything you read and regurgitate it into the mouths of those less fortunate to be able to decipher between something real and fictitious

LMAO!!!!! Yeah right.

Originally posted by flyingfish
Report: Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria

A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria.

LINK

Putin seems to follow through on all his promises and for that he has my respect. But at the same time this could mean all out world war. He has always done what he seems fit and doesn't give a crap about what the rest of the world says. I think it would be a grave mistake to call his bluff on this one.

"We believe that the Syrian regime is the best speaker on behalf of the Syrian people, and not those liver eaters” -- Quote by Putin.