Faith Healer Convinces Followers To Never Vaccinate, Now Church The Center Of Measles Outbreak (VIDE

Originally posted by bigman88
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Welp, you got me there. I thought i read somewhere that gardasil had killed plenty women here and even more abroad, in India somewhere.

And i always thought, and heard, from everywhere, that tetnus was from old rusty metal, or anything with rust on it puncturing the skin. Well i learned something new.

Well, i just have these irrational fears when i hear countless parents recite the same thing that happened to there child not long after being vaccine jabbed

"My child was a normal, healthy boy/girl. They gave him/he (whatever) vaccine. Not more than 20 minutes- 2 hours later, his/her skin broke it in these red blisters all over, his/her blood pressure sky rocketed, he/she was going into convulsions, his heart rate plummeted, yada, yada, yada, yada... he/she was never the same after that" or" he/she died". That, right there, over, and over, and over, from too many damn parents. Or i guess all of these parents got together and lied; decided to sue themselves some big pharma corporations... yep, that's what happened.

On top of that, the government makes it impossible to collect claims from big companies who jab there kids with messed up vaccines. "Nope, it was not the vaccines that caused ALL OF YOUR KIDS to have the SAME DAMN NEGATIVE REACTION... nope"

articles.mercola.com...

Gander that buddy. Probably useless, though; the source is not reliable enough for your tastes...

Thing is you'll read in loads of places (especially the likes of Mercola et al....) that hundreds if not thousands are injured by vaccines however when you delve a bit deeper, the proof and evidence seems to just melt away to nothing. That's not to say that in extremely rare cases there could be an anaphylactic allergic reaction but they are very few and far between and something which can't really be predicted. In fact there's far more prevalence of severe allergic reactions to over the counter drugs like aspirin (or nuts, strawberries, bee stings etc). If a child shows an allergy to a vaccination, guess what? They won't have it again.
It's really strange that having worked in a paediatric hospital for 14 years (on ICU amongst other places) I never once came across a child who's illness/injury was caused by having a vaccine other than the occasional febrile attack which was dealt with quickly and completely remedied with minimal intervention.
If vaccines caused that many injuries, surely since the hospital I worked in served a population of millions, I should have seen several every week?

I very much doubt that all of these parents have banded together rather than because of the misinformation put out by anti-vaxxers, some parents have seen a supposedly easy way to make money. Which is hardly surprising since the whole issue has been funded by litigation lawyers from day one.
A similar example, how many people who are in a car accident actually get neck whiplash? Probably not that many.
How many actually claim for it? Most of them!
The number of people who claim for it far outweighs those who've actually had it doesn't it?
Who pushes for whiplash claims?
The lawyers.
See my point?

What you need to understand about Mercola (NaturalNews, Gaia-Health etc) is that they publish anything they want to, the more controversial the better, just to get you on their site to increase hits for ad revenue and get you to buy their stuff. Now if you want to believe what they write then fine, that's up to you. I personally like to gain a balanced view so if someone directs me to an article which is controversial or provocative I shall try to find out more before I can form an opinion and that's irrespective of whether that article is from Mercola or The Lancet.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

I am glad I managed to protect my children for the first decade of their life for the most part. I used system cleanses and ramped up vitamins to improve their immune systems including lots of sun!

You're not worried about the well-documented dangers of large doses of vitamins then?

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

I am glad I managed to protect my children for the first decade of their life for the most part. I used system cleanses and ramped up vitamins to improve their immune systems including lots of sun!

You're not worried about the well-documented dangers of large doses of vitamins then?

I did not give them dangerous amounts, and the results spoke for themselves. My children are as healthy as a horse as the saying goes.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Daughter2

 

the quoted death rate IS for the "general population" of non-vaccinated.

Really, did they screen for all social/medical conditions that can skew the very low figure of .03%?
Perhaps they are part of groups who don't believe in ANY medical intervention or just children who live in poverty and lack decent food and living conditions.


The truth is vaccines HAVE NOT been around long enough to judge the LONG-TERM effects on health.

It's tough to do a study that would prove/disprove if vaccines have a general negative consequence on over-all health. There has been an increase in auto-immune diseases for some unknown reason - perhaps this is related to these vaccines.

Drug companies can't even do studies well enough to prove short-term problems with their drugs (See Celebrex). Long-term studies are even more difficult.

Originally posted by Daughter2

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Daughter2

 

the quoted death rate IS for the "general population" of non-vaccinated.

Really, did they screen for all social/medical conditions that can skew the very low figure of .03%?
Perhaps they are part of groups who don't believe in ANY medical intervention or just children who live in poverty and lack decent food and living conditions.


The truth is vaccines HAVE NOT been around long enough to judge the LONG-TERM effects on health.

It's tough to do a study that would prove/disprove if vaccines have a general negative consequence on over-all health. There has been an increase in auto-immune diseases for some unknown reason - perhaps this is related to these vaccines.

Drug companies can't even do studies well enough to prove short-term problems with their drugs (See Celebrex). Long-term studies are even more difficult.

The first vaccine was for smallpox in 1796.
Vaccines for cholera, rabies, tetanus, typhoid and the plague were released in the 1900's.
There was a bit of a hiatus at the beginning of the 20th century (a couple of wars interrupted things)but from the 1920's on there have been scores of vaccinations discovered and released.

Polio was released in 1957.
MMR in the 60's.
HPV in 2006.

Given the information above just exactly how long is needed to justify your own definition of "long-term effects"?
There's over 300 years from the first one.
We're talking about measles vaccines in this thread so that's been available to 2 or 3 generations now.

As for the auto-immune association with vaccines, this has been looked into in great depth and the conclusion is that, aside from some isolated cases, there is no association.
image.thelancet.com...

Using a specific drug to cite the invalidity of another drug or the clinical trials pertaining to another drug, especially when it's not even in the same classification is moot.
Sorry, that argument will never wash.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity


I did not give them dangerous amounts, and the results spoke for themselves. My children are as healthy as a horse as the saying goes.

I certainly hope that persists. But there are lots of studies linking large doses of vitamins to health issues, and who do you think makes the supplements? Fairy godmothers? Nope, people trying to make money.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity


I did not give them dangerous amounts, and the results spoke for themselves. My children are as healthy as a horse as the saying goes.

I certainly hope that persists. But there are lots of studies linking large doses of vitamins to health issues, and who do you think makes the supplements? Fairy godmothers? Nope, people trying to make money.

The fact is our food is vastly depleted in vitamins and minerals due to big industry farming techniques. I believe everyone should take an ounce of colloidal vitamins and minerals every day. I do agree you need to study and educate yourself to see what are the safe amounts.

Originally posted by Pardon?

Originally posted by bigman88
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Welp, you got me there. I thought i read somewhere that gardasil had killed plenty women here and even more abroad, in India somewhere.

And i always thought, and heard, from everywhere, that tetnus was from old rusty metal, or anything with rust on it puncturing the skin. Well i learned something new.

Well, i just have these irrational fears when i hear countless parents recite the same thing that happened to there child not long after being vaccine jabbed

"My child was a normal, healthy boy/girl. They gave him/he (whatever) vaccine. Not more than 20 minutes- 2 hours later, his/her skin broke it in these red blisters all over, his/her blood pressure sky rocketed, he/she was going into convulsions, his heart rate plummeted, yada, yada, yada, yada... he/she was never the same after that" or" he/she died". That, right there, over, and over, and over, from too many damn parents. Or i guess all of these parents got together and lied; decided to sue themselves some big pharma corporations... yep, that's what happened.

On top of that, the government makes it impossible to collect claims from big companies who jab there kids with messed up vaccines. "Nope, it was not the vaccines that caused ALL OF YOUR KIDS to have the SAME DAMN NEGATIVE REACTION... nope"

articles.mercola.com...

Gander that buddy. Probably useless, though; the source is not reliable enough for your tastes...

Thing is you'll read in loads of places (especially the likes of Mercola et al....) that hundreds if not thousands are injured by vaccines however when you delve a bit deeper, the proof and evidence seems to just melt away to nothing. That's not to say that in extremely rare cases there could be an anaphylactic allergic reaction but they are very few and far between and something which can't really be predicted. In fact there's far more prevalence of severe allergic reactions to over the counter drugs like aspirin (or nuts, strawberries, bee stings etc). If a child shows an allergy to a vaccination, guess what? They won't have it again.
It's really strange that having worked in a paediatric hospital for 14 years (on ICU amongst other places) I never once came across a child who's illness/injury was caused by having a vaccine other than the occasional febrile attack which was dealt with quickly and completely remedied with minimal intervention.
If vaccines caused that many injuries, surely since the hospital I worked in served a population of millions, I should have seen several every week?

I very much doubt that all of these parents have banded together rather than because of the misinformation put out by anti-vaxxers, some parents have seen a supposedly easy way to make money. Which is hardly surprising since the whole issue has been funded by litigation lawyers from day one.
A similar example, how many people who are in a car accident actually get neck whiplash? Probably not that many.
How many actually claim for it? Most of them!
The number of people who claim for it far outweighs those who've actually had it doesn't it?
Who pushes for whiplash claims?
The lawyers.
See my point?

What you need to understand about Mercola (NaturalNews, Gaia-Health etc) is that they publish anything they want to, the more controversial the better, just to get you on their site to increase hits for ad revenue and get you to buy their stuff. Now if you want to believe what they write then fine, that's up to you. I personally like to gain a balanced view so if someone directs me to an article which is controversial or provocative I shall try to find out more before I can form an opinion and that's irrespective of whether that article is from Mercola or The Lancet.

So there's no proof that a slew of children in Africa were crippled from Bill Gates pollio vaccine? A disease which was not even present in that region of the world? There's no proof that girls in India died from gardasil or was permanently incapacitated?

So those against vaccinations are lying? And those for it are using good science to tell the truth? ALL parents that had there kids permanently messed up in some way, or killed, by the same vaccine, within the same time frame, are lying, or are being mislead?

Even doctors would like risking their academic credentials and their reputation among their medical community, to come out into the public and say that vaccines are ultimately counter-productive to the human body for diseases that have little to no risk of inflicting large amounts of people, are lying? Or mislead?

Your saying other doctors who worked where you worked, and see the worst reactions to vaccines, are lying? What about adults?

There has been an increase in auto-immune diseases for some unknown reason

Very interesting comment!

I know that children in sterile environments are believed to be more susceptible to auto-immune diseases.
Vaccines having something to do without it doesn't seem far stretched. Somewhat unlikely maybe, but possible.

I believe everything has side effects on the long term. For the short term it works, sure, but for the future?

And guess what - the church is now offering free vaccines!!

glad to see some people can learn from mistakes!!

Originally posted by Daughter2

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Daughter2

 

the quoted death rate IS for the "general population" of non-vaccinated.

Really, did they screen for all social/medical conditions that can skew the very low figure of .03%?

they didn't screen for anything - that is WHY it is a GENERAL POPULATION.

The truth is vaccines HAVE NOT been around long enough to judge the LONG-TERM effects on health.

the eradication of smallpox would seem to be a long term health effect that perhaps you did not consider before coming to your conclusion.

Having considered the development and results of the global program on smallpox eradication initiated by WHO in 1958 and intensified since 1967 … Declares solemnly that the world and its peoples have won freedom from smallpox, which was a most devastating disease sweeping in epidemic form through many countries since earliest time, leaving death, blindness and disfigurement in its wake and which only a decade ago was rampant in Africa, Asia and South America.

— World Health Organization, Resolution WHA33.3

Perhaps you would like to provide some actual evidence or reasoning to support your argument??

reply to post by bigman88


Any adverse events from any drug are terrible.
The event in Africa was more than likely down to the storage and administration of the vaccine rather than the vaccine itself and the incidents in India haven't been corroborated so I've still an open mind on that.
If it was the vaccine then it certainly needs to be reassessed but given that these events occurred in individual countries rather than pan-globally it suggests a different cause, wouldn't you agree?

Not everyone's against vax is lying. The vast majority are just ill informed or because of other beliefs tend to feel they have to believe it (conspiracy theorists anyone?).
Like has been said earlier, some people associate symptoms incorrectly, falsely blaming the vaccine for them. This may sound glib to you but it's the absolute truth. Just Google autism and vaccines for instance and see how many sites blame vaccines for it. So as a parent you have a look online and what are you meant to believe?
It's the easy way out. It's something easy to blame?
It's not as easy to blame genetics. Or the environment is it?
Nah, blame the vaccines.
As for the doctors risking their credentials over it...most of the ones I've seen either have had little credibility to start with or lost it years ago anyway so there's nothing to lose and everything to gain (in their wallets).

And as for your last sentence, sorry, I haven't a clue what you're saying there.

reply to post by Pardon?


Where did you learn the the doctors reputation was already bad? It always seems their reputation turns sour when they start squawking about things that are not desired to be squawked about by their upper echelon bosses.

And the last sentence was referring to adults who came down with pretty bad sicknesses after vaccination. www.informationliberation.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.informationliberation.com...

Originally posted by bigman88
reply to post by Pardon?

 

Where did you learn the the doctors reputation was already bad? It always seems their reputation turns sour when they start squawking about things that are not desired to be squawked about by their upper echelon bosses.

And the last sentence was referring to adults who came down with pretty bad sicknesses after vaccination. www.informationliberation.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.informationliberation.com...

As I've said, the majority of anti-vax "doctors" have either lost or never had a reputation before they started speaking out against vaccines. It's their way of becoming something if you will. In fact, in the anti-vax world, some are almost minor celebrities now.
Please show me a list of the doctors you deem to be credible on the anti-vax stance and their rationale and I will happily look through the list and see if their comments are valid or not.

As for your link, well again, where's the evidence there linking the shot directly to the illness?
From that story it's unclear whether the guy had had a vaccination at all as it just says he received "a shot". Later the military alleged that it was a "flu shot" but there's absolutely nothing whatsoever to say definitely what it was.
Given the military's past history the injection could have been almost anything as it's been a badly kept secret that they've performed "experiments" on their personnel since time immemorial. However comparing military "vaccinations" to those for the public is like chalk and cheese.
So I'm afraid using that particular piece as evidence of vaccine induced sickness is useless as it contains no evidence nor facts of any kind.
Since that story broke 6 years ago I thought I would look around and see if anything has come of light since then and there's absolutely nothing at all. All I can find using "Lance Corporal David Fey" as a search term is the "original" article posted on various anti-vax sites which makes me think that the story is just that, a story.
Obviously it could well be that the military have paid him some hush money in which case we'll never know what happened (if indeed anything DID happen....).

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
I believe everyone should take an ounce of colloidal vitamins and minerals every day.

Yeah, so do the people who sell colloidal vitamins.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


You act as if someone is selling a product they are just out to screw you. Do you think this about automakers or oil producers? What about auto mechanics or auto parts stores? Are they out to just screw you into buying something you don't need?

Our bodies need vitamins and minerals and much has been removed that is healthy from our diets and much has been put in that is not healthy for us.




Listen to some facts from 1936 and how bad it must be today!



Short and sweet

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Unless you have a specific and quantified vitamin or mineral deficiency taking supplements is a complete waste of time and money. You're best just eating a healthy, balanced diet and get what you need naturally.
Rather than watch YouTube which are only there to sell you the stuff have a read of some real research.

www.skepdic.com...

Obviously this won't fit in with your onions but as the saying goes, you can have your own beliefs but not your own facts.

reply to post by Pardon?


www.huffingtonpost.com...
So federal court will pay millions because vaccines have no everlasting negative effects on he human body? Especially children?

I don't buy that any doctors that are against vaccines are simply misguided, or trying to get attention. It is always the case that doctors who go against these things always seem to not be able to possess or retain any professional or informational competence;they are simply easily mislead, or of bad skill and reputation.

The same way that large pharma corporations and government institutions fund trials for the safety of drugs, is the same way that independent organizations and teams fund trails for the safety of drugs. What makes one more legit than the other? Especially when some of the members have the same credentials as the industry employed members?

Here's one difference that plenty don't consider, though...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">resultingwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Large pharma corporations have PLENTY to lose, so they will make sure that people see that vaccines are safe. But then the above happens. I can see how confident they are of vaccines not harming anyone.

These pharma corporations contribute millions towards government treasury, so i don't think it too much of a stretch that they'll get the populace thinking that many people over the years coming down with the same crippling symptoms RIGHT after vaccination is separate, coincidental cases that merit's not even slight suspicion. Whatever...

edit on 1-9-2013 by bigman88 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Pardon?


And you consider the military (US government) will inject personnel with dangerous experimental crap for whatever reason, and bribe his/her mouth shut in order to keep it quiet, but the government is only trying to help and strengthen the population with vaccines?

That's some bi-polar mess, don't you think? Or maybe they just don't like their military personnel but likes civilians? i just go by the governments past actions...

en.wikipedia.org... _the_United_States

This is just what they had no choice but to disclose to the public. What makes you think they ceased this? Because they said their sorry? Because it was several years ago? In another era?

They care about Americans now? They had a legitimate reason(once again, the reasons they tell you)? Nope, there is a reason why so many people suddenly physically freak out after their vaccinations. If vaccines were TRULY safe and effective for people, you won't see such a large hubbub about it. Period. The ones who fight against it would be a small, kooky, silly little minority that no one will regard. There is a reason that so many people are not the vaccines, and it's not only easy, but insulting, to say that millions lack the reason and the ability to research, choose, and arrive at a well considered and rational conclusion, or that those who sue for compensation had there child get vaccination based on the TRUST they had in the medical professionals, then turn around and sue when their damn kid winds up with a 1/4 breadth or with decreased cognitive function, especially at the age of 5 or something.

There is a reason infants landing in the autism spectrum, or the infant mortality rate for a developed country, jumps each year.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
The fact is our food is vastly depleted in vitamins and minerals due to big industry farming techniques. I believe everyone should take an ounce of colloidal vitamins and minerals every day. I do agree you need to study and educate yourself to see what are the safe amounts.

Are there any peer reviewed studies of the positive impact of colloidal vitamins? For example, do they really help with diabetes, arthritis and a whole host of other ailments, as is claimed? It seems to me that the level of evidence required from pharmaceutical companies that their products are safe (etc) is never applied to products touted by the niche producers who can claim what they want! For example homeopathy!

I have heard that colloidal vitamins are potentially unsafe if the person has existing conditions, such as Wilson's disease - again, not much research, but mentioned to balance the view that they are the panacea of all things good.

I also dispute your broad-brush statement that food is depleted of vitamins and minerals. Is there any proper evidence that a tomato grown in my garden is significantly nutritionally different from a tomato grown under acres of glass in Holland? My garden produced tomato will taste better, but that’s the only difference.

Evidence and not some YouTube opinion.

Regards