baphomet

It literally means in Latin 'to turn toward'. This is a literary fact and is not disputable.

But that means to add another version, it's what version means.

Originally posted by Sigismundus

Hi Masonic Light -

I'm not sure how disreputable Mr Kenneth Grant actually was (as you claim) when he in fact held his top Masonic post back in the1950s (you seem to think he was some kind of Masonic criminal)

Grant was not a Mason, neither was he a criminal.

Are you of the opinion that BAPHOMET was NOT a positive 'Illuminatory' Masonic Symbol esp. post 33 degree rituals? I'm not sure where you actuall stand on this whole issue...though it appears that you are something of an apologist for the masons in some form, to judge from the language of your posts...unless I am mis-reading them !

Simply put, Baphomet is not used in Freemasonry. If you are asking what I personally consider Baphomet to be, I consider it a symbolic representation of the occult "double current" spoken of by Levi.

Originally posted by Sigismundus

Aleister Crowley used to claim that the OTO originated in Germany as a later offshoot of 'Rosicrucian' Masonry (18th Degree) from the late 18th century - but he freely admitted that (at least after 1918) the OTO had begun to move on beyond the confines of its Mother Lodge.

Actually, the O.T.O. came about as an attempt to synthesize the more unwieldy degree systems of the Rites of Memphis and Mitzraim.

Weirdly, perhaps, it seems clear that if the OTO is NOT actually in fact a ‘Masonic Order’ i.e. ipso facto, its Members have first to be Initiated Masons, and apparently highly initiated Masons are the only ones who can ever be allowed membership into the OTO organisation.

One does not have to be a Mason in order to join O.T.O. In fact, most of their members have no connection to Freemasonry. The O.T.O. also admits women.

The actual (i.e. literal) ‘Masonic Constitution’ of the OTO is hard to define exactly

It's actually not difficult. The O.T.O. does not claim to be a Masonic organization. If one is an O.T.O. member, that's great for him or her. But such folks cannot gain entrance into a Masonic Lodge based upon O.T.O. membership.

Simply put, Baphomet is not used in Freemasonry. If you are asking what I personally consider Baphomet to be, I consider it a symbolic representation of the occult "double current" spoken of by Levi.

It is used in masonry thru other symbols like the triple tau, or the seal of Solomon, this would be first.

Second, masonry holds a personal connection with the knights templars thru symbolism, rituals and adoration. The knight templars hold a personal connection to Baphomet.

Originally posted by pepsi78

Second, masonry holds a personal connection with the knights templars thru symbolism, rituals and adoration. The knight templars hold a personal connection to Baphomet.

Tell me all about the knights templars symbolism and rituals please.

reply to post by fordrew

It's part of the royal arch degree, part of the ritual.

Originally posted by KSigMason
I do believe that John Yarker, an associate of Crowley's, was expelled from Freemasonry for some of his actions.

Yarker was not expelled. He was originally a regular Mason, but was considered sort of fringe, and resigned.

Also, anything I can find shows that Crowley went through the Mexican Scottish Rite at a time they were not recognized.

Crowley never went through any Scottish Rite degrees. While in Mexico in 1900, a Mexican occultist gave him a 33rd degree patent in return for some other Rosicrucian patent that Crowley had (Crowley gives this story in his autobiography).

It should be noted that Crowley himself did not receive the blue lodge degrees until four years later, in 1904. Thus the fake 33rd degree patent from Mexico was given to him as a non-Mason.

Originally posted by pepsi78
It's part of the royal arch degree, part of the ritual.

There is nothing about the Templars in the Royal Arch degree.

reply to post by Masonic Light

How can't it be, it's part of the ritual with symbols such as the triple tau.
A Knights Templar commandery is traditionally the final body that a member joins in the York Rite

Originally posted by pepsi78
How can't it be, it's part of the ritual with symbols such as the triple tau.
A Knights Templar commandery is traditionally the final body that a member joins in the York Rite

edit on 12-7-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)

The Templar ritual and Royal Arch ritual are two separate degrees, and are conferred by separate bodies. The Royal Arch degree is conferred in a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons. Requirements for receiving that degree are that one must be a Master Mason and Mark Master Mason and (in the United States), a Past and Most Excellent Master.

The Order of Knight Templar can be conferred in a Commandery or Preceptory of Knights Templar on Royal Arch Masons who are Christians (not all Royal Arch Masons are of the Christian faith). It is a completely separate thing.

The Templar ritual and Royal Arch ritual are two separate degrees, and are conferred by separate bodies. The Royal Arch degree is conferred in a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons. Requirements for receiving that degree are that one must be a Master Mason and Mark Master Mason and (in the United States), a Past and Most Excellent Master.

But by the same organisation, masonry.

The Order of Knight Templar can be conferred in a Commandery or Preceptory of Knights Templar on Royal Arch Masons who are Christians (not all Royal Arch Masons are of the Christian faith). It is a completely separate thing.

But it's part of the Royal Arch, york rite.

Official seal of royal arch is the triple tau.

This name:"Templum Hiero-Solyma" carved onto the "Triple Tau" column of the Knights Templar's shrine at Rosslyn, Scotland. The chapel construction and stone work completed in 1480 AD. The Hebrews written down the name of Solyma like this: SLM (no vowels). We can pronounce it S(o)L(y)M(a), or S(a)L(e)M. Later the city called "Uru-Salem". The word "Iero" or "Hiero in front of the city's name remained and pronounced it "Iero Uru-Salem", "Ierusalem", finally "Jerusalem."

Masonry beilives in the goat as their god, same as Arabs do, but only that Arabs are asleep, they don't know it, that their Alah is a woman. The knight templars are worshiped mainly because of that that they turend from what they believed to the goat and the Arabic system.

Originally posted by pepsi78
But it's part of the Royal Arch, york rite.

Templary is not part of the Royal Arch. They are separate.

In the United States, they are both lumped under a loose confederation called "York Rite", but they are distinct from each other.

Templary is not part of the Royal Arch. They are separate.

It comes from the royal arch.

In the United States, they are both lumped under a loose confederation called "York Rite", but they are distinct from each other.

It's the same thing, there is a word called obvius. It's part of the masonic dogma.

en.wikipedia.org...
A Knights Templar commandery is traditionally the final body that a member joins in the York Rite after the chapter of Royal Arch Masons and a council of Royal & Select Masters.

reply to post by pepsi78



The York Rite is made up of 3 distinct bodies , The Chapter , Council and Commandery . A Mason May join the Chapter (Royal Arch) only and progress no further . He may join the Chapter and Council and go no further (as many non-Christians do) and some go through all three bodies .

You are talking about something you have no knowledge of but are merely guessing . The Commadery (Knights Templar) have nothing to do with the Royal Arch degree , nor do they have anything to do with the Council degrees .

reply to post by Masonic Light

Ah. Much of what I read is very vague in many parts. I saw that many considered him and his rites were considered fringe, and would it be better that he was ostracized?

I had never read his autobiography, I probably will when I'm home.

reply to post by pepsi78

The York Rite is composed of 3 confederate, independent, and sovereign bodies. The Templars do not have authority over the Capitular and Cryptic organizations. When I presided over the Royal Arch, the 3 York Rite bodies would meet jointly with one of them doing an official opening. We 3 presiding officers would preside jointly over the meeting, but none had authority over the others, only the body to which they were elected to preside over.

reply to post by pepsi78

The Royal Arch is not the same as the Templars and vice versa. Use of a symbol doesn't necessarily mean connection. You don't know much of the use of the triple tau in the Royal Arch nor the symbolism of the Templars.

Templum Hiero-Solyma: Latin for the Temple of Jerusalem.

Nowhere in Masonic teachings do we say God is a female.

You assume too much on both the Templars of the Crusades and the Masonic Templars.

You are pulling small bits of information and trying to make an hypothesis. It's a bad analysis. Like it has been said and can be proven, each of the 3 bodies has its own leaderships, duly elected by the voting members.

You're arguing with us on this instance is like arguing with me on how my aircraft flies and the principles of flight.

Originally posted by pepsi78
It comes from the royal arch.

Templary does not come from the Royal Arch.

It's the same thing,

No, it's completely different.

Originally posted by KSigMason
Ah. Much of what I read is very vague in many parts. I saw that many considered him and his rites were considered fringe, and would it be better that he was ostracized?

I'm not sure he was actually ostracized (assuming we are talking about Yarker...or do you mean Crowley?). If Yarker, then his work was held in high esteem by many of that era, including both Pike and Crowley.

I had never read his autobiography, I probably will when I'm home.

Here, I'm assuming you mean Crowley. His autobiography is probably the most "readable" and entertaining of his books to the layman.

The Royal Arch is not the same as the Templars and vice versa. Use of a symbol doesn't necessarily mean connection. You don't know much of the use of the triple tau in the Royal Arch nor the symbolism of the Templars.

Very true. The Triple Tau is not a Templar symbol.

The York Rite is made up of 3 distinct bodies , The Chapter , Council and Commandery . A Mason May join the Chapter (Royal Arch) only and progress no further . He may join the Chapter and Council and go no further (as many non-Christians do) and some go through all three bodies .

The york rite is an official masonic body. Triple tau is associated with the Templars.

Very true. The Triple Tau is not a Templar symbol.

This name:"Templum Hiero-Solyma" carved onto the "Triple Tau" column of the Knights Templar's shrine at Rosslyn, Scotland.

www.knight-lomas.com...
The central design theme of Rosslyn is around the six pointed star known as the ‘Seal of Solomon’and the layout of pillars forms a device known in Freemasonry as a Triple Tau - three interlocked 'T' shapes.

reply to post by pepsi78


an absolutely dreadful source. His concept of statistics couldn't be more wrong. No sources. No picture.