Why we COULD repel an alien invasion

Countless times on ATS, and elsewhere, people repeat the same tired argument that if aliens wanted to invade Earth, we wouldn't be able to defend ourselves at all. I think this is silly statement, and I'll explain why.

Humans are capable of sending robots out of our solar system. We are capable of sending robots to mars, heck we actually do have the ability to send people to Mars, we just don't have any good way of keeping them alive once they get there (or getting them back) We can do all that with our rather limited technology. What we cannot do is project any power to any useful degree. We could travel to Mars, and if there were enough housecats living they they could easily repel us. Wouldn't it be logical that the difference between being able to travel somewhere, and being able to project power somewhere would also exist in an alien civilization?

We assume that space travel for the aliens is comparable to us jumping in a car and going to the store. Maybe it's not? Maybe they have FTL capability, but it's incredibly expensive, time consuming, and overall just very difficult for them to do?

Meaning, they could reach earth, in the same way we can reach mars. Through a long, expensive, difficult process with many, many chances for things to go horribly wrong.

We assume just because they can travel here, they will also be able to muster the full brunt of their military against us. There is no reason to believe this is the case, it makes far more sense that projecting power would be far more difficult than simply traveling here.

Maybe with all of their might and will they can only manage to send a small craft with maybe a few thousand troops to attack Earth. That few thousand is probably still a strong enemy considering their level of technology, but it seems they would eventually be overwhelmed, and without the ability for back-up to arrive, they are screwed and stranded.

Maybe these aliens aren't actually incredibly knowledgeable, maybe they stole, inherited, or found technology from another race and used it for themselves, without being able to replicate or repair such technology. A tribesman without contact with the modern world could probably figure out how to drive a car after awhile, but he won't be able to reprogram the ECU, or repair broken or worn out parts. He wouldn't even understand it needs regular oil changes, refueling, tire replacement, etc and his fancy new car would quickly break down.

Maybe they used to be knowledgeable, but for some reason have regressed and no longer have the ability to produce or make major repairs to their old technology. They can still use it for attacking planets, but they aren't really any more advanced than those they are attacking, even though they are capable of FTL travel.

Maybe an attack wouldn't be the work of an entire civilization, but maybe of a single alien individual or group. Maybe a small start-up company aliens inc. is seeking to capture earth to use as it's home base, and thus they only have a tiny fraction of the resources and technology as their entire civilization does.

Maybe an attack would happen because there is a generational ship in dire need of finding a homeworld, and after eons of wandering the galaxy they are broken and beaten down, barely able to mount any sort of effective attack, but have a go at Earth because it's their last chance of saving their civilization.

Maybe they aren't trying to kill all humans or take over the planet, but are simply doing a quick smash and grab for something they want (who knows what it could be) so they aren't prepared for any sort of massive scale resistance.

Maybe there is some galactic law and civilizations aren't allowed to attack such young races as humans, so any attack would be a small, secret attack launched without the support they would normally have. Think of America secretly sending in special forces to other countries that we don't want anyone to know we are actually attacking. They can do some damage, but a few SF guys aren't going to defeat a country's entire army alone.

Maybe an attack wouldn't be a full force attack, but a purposefully weak attack to test the defenses of Earth. To test us and see if we have any technology they weren't aware of. To test and see if anyone else is watching that would stop them before they launch a full assault.

Is that a lot of "maybe" sure is. But that's the point. We don't know anything about aliens. We don't know their biology. We don't know their technology. We don't know what focuses that technology has taken (maybe ALL their attack tech is bio based and doesn't work on humans?) we don't know their forms of government or organization. We don't know their rules or laws. We don't know anything, so there are infinite reasons why an alien assault COULD be defeated.

Human history is full of advanced cultures getting beaten by the barbarians. To think that EVERY alien attack would be a huge scale one launched by a totally god-like alien species is without merit. Is it possible? Sure! But not anymore likely than any of the scenarios I've presented here.

reply to post by James1982


I wonder how would alien forces fare when they land into the middle east and occupied Mecca?

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
reply to post by James1982

 

I wonder how would alien forces fare when they land into the middle east and occupied Mecca?

Depends of if they have beards or not.

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
reply to post by James1982

 

I wonder how would alien forces fare when they land into the middle east and occupied Mecca?

Haha good point. Or they attack Afghanistan and it's forever know to aliens as "the place alien civilizations go to die"

There are really any number of reasons why they could be defeated. Once we get away from the idea that any and every attack possible would be a massive full scale campaign from a species millions of years advanced to us. Why does THAT have to be the situation? Again looking at human history, MOST battles are not that way.

Look at WWII and the Thompson. It was an excellent weapon loved by servicemen, but few were used. You'd assume that in WWII every single soldier would have the best gun possible, but that's not how it happens.

Another situation is that perhaps they are trying to colonize earth and have a large portion of their population that doesn't agree with destroying other civilizations. So they are allowed to come here in order to colonize the planet under the condition they don't use too much force and upset the alien hippies. Once us humans start fighting back and get slapped down maybe public opinion turns and they abandon their campaign.

I can keep going if anyone still thinks it's a forgone conclusion every alien attack would be hopeless to defend against.

Hmm, a lot of "maybes" there.

All they would need to do is push a large enough asteroid our way and its game over.

That takes math and some thrust.

Originally posted by benrl
All they would need to do is push a large enough asteroid our way and its game over.

That takes math and some thrust.

Mass Effect had a mission like that where a bunch of aliens put some big ole thrusters on an asteroid to crash it into a planet. Alien terrorists... the worst, I tell ya.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by benrl
All they would need to do is push a large enough asteroid our way and its game over.

That takes math and some thrust.

Mass Effect had a mission like that where a bunch of aliens put some big ole thrusters on an asteroid to crash it into a planet. Alien terrorists... the worst, I tell ya.

Starship troopers did it first, but yeah mass effect as well.

Originally posted by benrl
All they would need to do is push a large enough asteroid our way and its game over.

That takes math and some thrust.

Yes, but that doesn't take into account various possible social restrictions placed upon these aliens.

My point is, there are a million ways to easily wipe out humans given enough technology, but there are also a million ways the situation could be stacked so that we win.

We don't know ANYTHING about any possible alien life, so I'm not reaching any more with my scenarios than you guys are with yours. For every example of how aliens could wipe us out, I could give a counter example of why that couldn't happen.

Promoting scenarios where humans loose makes tons of assumptions about alien's technology, society, etc that have zero basis in fact, because we simply don't know. The same is true for my scenarios, both ideas are without factual basis, so neither is more or less likely than the other. So there is no legitimate reason to believe any and all alien invasions would succeed so easily.

Originally posted by benrl

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by benrl
All they would need to do is push a large enough asteroid our way and its game over.

That takes math and some thrust.

Mass Effect had a mission like that where a bunch of aliens put some big ole thrusters on an asteroid to crash it into a planet. Alien terrorists... the worst, I tell ya.

Starship troopers did it first, but yeah mass effect as well.

That one never made sense to me. The bugs have no tech, they shoot blue-ass-fire into the sky, that's their only way to touch space (AFAIK, I'm no ST fanybody, just seen the movie) I assumed they knocked asteroids out of place with their butt-fire in order to crash them into earth, but how are they calculating the angles and everything to accurately knock an asteroid into earth from trillions of miles away? It's like playing galactic billiards without being able to see the balls. I never saw the bugs looking through telescopes and running calculations, or anything to suggest they are even capable of such a thing.

Sorry for derailing my own thread but that part of the movie always "bugged' me

lol at invasion.



You dont really think they are dumb enough to invade do ya?


Blending is an art.

What if Aliens had navels? Would they contemplate them? What if we were, so to speak, no more than the lint in an Alien's navel? Could we still defeat them?

What if there were no more "Allien If" questions ever posted?

Sorry, James. Truly. Just had to get that off my chest. I feel better now.

The best thing that could happen to this planet IS an alien invasion. Humans are INSANE!! I think if ETs had the capability to come here, they're probably much more intelligent than we are and they probably would actually CARE about the people here. Much the way the more intelligent people here realize the importance of maintaining our Eco systems by protecting certain species.

ETs would probably go on a cleansing spree to rid us of those in "power" who onsist on the use of nuclear power and weapons, chemical plants, etc. Then destroy those facilities or secure them so they no longer pose a risk to the planet and its inhabitants. What is the point in destroying everyone if the planet itself is/has been polluted to the point of uselessness? They could use us to mine, if that were the goal. Either way, we are worth more alive than dead. Let 'em come. We'd probably get better health care. I'd rather have an alien rule my country than a human. At least we wouldn't be surprised if things didn't go well, instead of being repeatedly lied to. Oh..uh..lol..

Originally posted by James1982

Originally posted by benrl

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by benrl
All they would need to do is push a large enough asteroid our way and its game over.

That takes math and some thrust.

Mass Effect had a mission like that where a bunch of aliens put some big ole thrusters on an asteroid to crash it into a planet. Alien terrorists... the worst, I tell ya.

Starship troopers did it first, but yeah mass effect as well.

That one never made sense to me. The bugs have no tech, they shoot blue-ass-fire into the sky, that's their only way to touch space (AFAIK, I'm no ST fanybody, just seen the movie) I assumed they knocked asteroids out of place with their butt-fire in order to crash them into earth, but how are they calculating the angles and everything to accurately knock an asteroid into earth from trillions of miles away? It's like playing galactic billiards without being able to see the balls. I never saw the bugs looking through telescopes and running calculations, or anything to suggest they are even capable of such a thing.

Sorry for derailing my own thread but that part of the movie always "bugged' me

I think the asteroid trick was first used in the scifi movie "This Island Earth" in 1955.

The answer to the bug's ability was Barney and the brain bug.

Nice premise!
Here's my take on it. If they were all that & a bag of chips we wouldn't have the 3am kidnappings, they seldom have snagged anyone in the middle of the day out of their cubicle, if you get my drift? They only seem to approach humans once they are sleeping. (in general) Plus they block most memories to the point the human has faulty recall for sometimes years.

IF.....if they were so all fired superior and confident I don't think this would be the case. So far assuming abductee reports are accurate they are hesitant to face us head on. To me this indicates a weakness, and something we should look at closely.

Of course I can only go on reported information so this is hypothetical.
On the other hand if they are here just to pillage they wouldn't care much how badly we're jacking the joint up!

Originally posted by Caver78
IF.....if they were so all fired superior and confident I don't think this would be the case. So far assuming abductee reports are accurate they are hesitant to face us head on. To me this indicates a weakness, and something we should look at closely.

Okay, I admit it, sheesh! I've hypothesized pretty much that exact thing before. Starred. However, if--and that's just another "if" piled upon a galaxy of "ifs"--abductions are related to the UFO phenomenon, wouldn't that constitute an invasion of sorts? Are we defeating that invasion now?

Even if their "sneakiness" does suggest a weakness, they still seem sneaky enough to abduct us and get away with it. All they would have to do is keep abducting us one by one and, instead of returning us to our hypothetical beds, just set the anal probe on "Puree."

Lots of "maybe"s in your post there.

Consider this; aliens care ZERO for any and all earth life, including the plants because for whatever reason none of it mixes or matches well with their own biology, and native flora & fauna.

1. Aliens simply erase every single bit of earth life by introducing agents into our atmosphere that unzip every tiny bit of Earth DNA; people, cats, jellyfish, worms, bacteria, house plants, entire forests, fish, everything.

2. Done.

2a. This could be done 10,000 years before they even arrive.
2b. A followup seed ship could arrive 5,000 years before arrival to plant, breed and grow life familiar and friendly to the eventual invaders.

An even simpler and more primitive approach would be to hang out in the Asteroid belt, and just drop rocks on Earth for a few decades of non-stop bombardment. These kinetic weapons would devastate most all life, and nothing remaining afterwards would post much of a retaliatory threat.

Another scenario; Aliens could simply coax Yellowstone, and/or another super-volcano to asplode, leaving humanity to die out "naturally", entirely unaware of any outside alien influence.
Invasion minded Aliens could even show up coincidentally to "help" in the face of such a worldwide extinction level event disaster to usher a small breeding population of Earth Life into a game preserve/zoo under the guise of a safe haven.

^^^Who said Druscilla doesn't have an imagination? Huh?^^^ Nice, D.

Especially like the kinetic rocks. Cheap. Effective.

Air superiority ..You control the sky, you control the ground. However, if you control space which is higher then the sky, then you control the sky.

We couldn't nuke them, especially if they were in our skies.

And if they really didn't like us for some reason, they could blow up our planet, with some anti-matter or world breaker weapon. Sure with all the nuclear bombs we have, we'd wipe all life at least 3 times over. However, it wouldn't make a dent in the planet surface.

Maybe they'd just want us erase us from the universe cause they find us so repulsive as a life form, and not care for our resources at all.

Then their also EMP, which would cripple all computers.

As for economic reasons, maybe they are like the U.S military, and will do it anyways in tough economic times.

Originally posted by Specimen
Air superiority ..You control the sky, you control the ground. However, if you control space which is higher then the sky, then you control the sky.

We couldn't nuke them, especially if they were in our skies.

And if they really didn't like us for some reason, they could blow up our planet, with some anti-matter or world breaker weapon. Sure with all the nuclear bombs we have, we'd wipe all life at least 3 times over. However, it wouldn't make a dent in the planet surface.

Maybe they'd just want us erase us from the universe cause they find us so repulsive as a life form, and not care for our resources at all.

Then their also EMP, which would cripple all computers.

As for economic reasons, maybe they are like the U.S military, and will do it anyways in tough economic times.

Who says they would control the skies? Our aircraft are specifically designed to fly in our atmosphere. Who says they have craft that work well in thick atmosphere? Who says they designed their invasion plans around earth? Who says Earth isn't just a target of opportunity that they took on their way back home and didn't bring any Earth-specific craft?

I'm not suggesting that an alien invasion WOULD be defeated, simply that to instantly assume that any and all invasion of earth would be hopeless to defend against isn't taking everything into account.

I'm saying that either way is possible, we just don't know. Either way we are making assumptions.

Others are saying with conviction that they WILL win, for sure, without question. That's the idea I'm arguing against, not the idea that it's possible for them to easily defeat us. Obviously there are tons of easy ways to wipe out humanity, but you are assuming wiping out humanity is their goal, you are assuming to know how their minds operate and how their society works. You don't know ANY of that, so to suggest an alien invasion is a forgone loss is a baseless argument.

Having a lot of "maybes" doesn't degrade my argument, because the other side of the argument is relying on those same maybes to conclude we loose. I'm saying "we just don't know' that's all.