Salvation comes from within, NOT without

"Each decade a new LIE is introduced unto you sleeping masses and repeated until it becomes your very illusion. There was no mention in the original writings of "Jews" "Zionists" "Rapture" etc. How dare you think you can dump your load of transgressions on any innocent man, and you get off with some nice RAPTURE TO PARADISE. How dare you!"

To those that only read the top part, get pissed off and decide not to read further... think twice. Why did you get mad?


-read the whole thing at www.fourwinds10.net...
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The simple truth is that Immanuel/Jesus/Esu/Sananda did not come here as a savior the way we think he did. He came here to bring information and light to a society that didn't have the morals necessary for enlightenment and ascension. He did not die to save us from our sins.

We are our own redeemer. On the flip of that coin, we are our own judge. You are God, which is the Consciousness of the cosmos, looking at the cosmos from a seemingly separate individual perspective. God IS you. God IS everything, and we are inextricably tied to it. We are all One. The era of false teachings about the nature of our Spirit is over. The truth is coming to light.

So which side of the fence are you on? The side soothing the wounds of the angry because their belief constructs are being challenged and thrown to the wayside? Or the the people happy knowing that our spiritual salvation comes from within each and every one of us?

Everything in your life has happened exactly as it has, because you chose for it to happen that way. This sounds counter intuitive because why would any being choose suffering? The answer is simple. To learn from it. To grow from it. The world is not happening TO you. It is happening ACCORDING to you and happening THROUGH you.

Embrace that everything "wrong" in your life was set up by you, for you, and the key to your happiness is IN you. You are everything special about the Universe. Your life is a reason for existence to.. well exist! You are loved by the entirety of the cosmos more than you could possibly believe, and now's the time when we are learning to reconnect and feel that love, to know from experience what "God" is.

Everything around you is an outward reflection of whats IN you. When you say something to someone with a negative intention, reflect it back on yourself. What in you shares qualities with this person you're going at that you don't like about yourself. This is alchemy. Changing the 'dark' (Ignorance) into 'Light' (Knowing)

I love you!! I hope you're not too mad at my attempts to help right some un truths that are solidly constructed as belief systems and have perpetuated the illusions of separation and duality.. I'm not sorry for it, I simply wish only the Light and Love of all that I Am/We Are be felt by you in your life. The end of suffering is at hand, but it's not going to be handed to us. We have to make the decision within ourselves to be done with the old power struggles and paradigms of society, and to be happy and at peace with each other for the sake of Love towards the self... which is everything! Sounds good right? Embrace change because, and I assure you, it is the only constant in our ever expanding Consciousness/Uni/Multiverse/Cosmos/Creation whatever you wanna call it.

Be in Joy! Be One! From my heart to yours,

Thank you, this comes at a special time in my life, and I am very appreciative that I read that. I wish a friend of mine could read this, she manifests her anger in so many ways. Well, it is not to late for tea is it?

I think of it this way. If a friend and I got caught because I did something bad and he took the blame for it it would be similar to what the meaning behind Jesus dying for our sins Is about. We are caught and he says to the officer - "I did it and I take full responsibility". I know it was me who did the deed. The officer tells my friend to come with him - he will be shot. I quietly ask my friend, "why are you doing this?" He says "because I want you to live"; "go on and live a good life, learn from this and remember that I love you this much - and I believe in you". If you blow it again just remember what is happening now and what I had to sacrifice - it will remind you and help you decide differently. Think about it - would you be able to keep on committing crimes after something like that or would it change you? If you cared about that friend it would change you. If you didn't, then it may not alter anything.

You definitely have to take responsibility for your choices. This lesson isn't about Jesus being a perpetual get out of jail free card. The lesson is that if someone else can love you enough to give you another change maybe that love can rub off and bring about lasting change.

reply to post by joeyv23

Hello Joeyv23:

Before I write anymore in reply to your OP, I didn't get mad at anything you wrote. Just so we are clear on that.

Now to this:




I would like to highlight and speak to your quote of these words, specifically: "....perpetuated the illusions of separation and duality."

This is near and dear to my heart (love), and intellect (brain), and so, directly involved and enmeshed in my consciousness......but I would lovingly say to you that you are mixing some things up here, to the detriment, perhaps, if i understand you, what you are trying to say......

I do not believe in duality. Good vs. evil, pain to feel and know joy, etc. I believe this to be part of the illusion of which you speak and further, a justification for making people feel pain, and explaining this as that is the only way they will recognize joy, which sadly, most of encounter rarely, if ever, really. The inbetween being just a justification for something else somewhere else torturing us, and blaming on our simple minds that we need these two things to know the difference between them. Think about that: how insulting to our intellect and humanity is that, really?

But then you mention, "separation." I find this intriguing, and at the same time, revealing of your "slant," belief system, and really enhancing and reaffirming the current paradigm while seeming not to do that at all. For: separation, boundaries, are an essentail part of individualism and identity, and how we personally perceive life, joy, and pain; in other words, the dualism you spoke of there.

In case you don't get where I am coming from, yet, I am so weary of the whole "we are one" philosophy." And find you are employing it here, along with criticism of dualism (2) to say just that, we are one. When we are not.
We are many. I hope. God, I hope, we are still many and not one or two. How boring, how limited, how controlled would that amount to, even in terms of math, which, after all, is only another representational language like any other, that claims to through theoretical physics be able to prove and quantify dimensional reality and consciounsess and soul.....sort of. They don't claim that much, yet, but they're getting close.....just with math.
I gotta tell you, Joey, are you X and am i Y? Get me. Are we integers or numbers in that particular mathematical language, meant to represent, quantify, qualify and then manipulate with equations from there.

So if you get where I'm coming from, I find these two things together in your post to be duplicitous: still defining only two things, while pretending otherwise.
Appreciate your thought process though And interested in your thoughts as to what I have written and contemplated vis a vis your OP.....
Sincerely,
Tetra50

Originally posted by Dianec
I think of it this way. If a friend and I got caught because I did something bad and he took the blame for it it would be similar to what the meaning behind Jesus dying for our sins Is about. We are caught and he says to the officer - "I did it and I take full responsibility". I know it was me who did the deed. The officer tells my friend to come with him - he will be shot. I quietly ask my friend, "why are you doing this?" He says "because I want you to live"; "go on and live a good life, learn from this and remember that I love you this much - and I believe in you". If you blow it again just remember what is happening now and what I had to sacrifice - it will remind you and help you decide differently. Think about it - would you be able to keep on committing crimes after something like that or would it change you? If you cared about that friend it would change you. If you didn't, then it may not alter anything.

You definitely have to take responsibility for your choices. This lesson isn't about Jesus being a perpetual get out of jail free card. The lesson is that if someone else can love you enough to give you another change maybe that love can rub off and bring about lasting change.

Loved the way you worded and described Gods perfect love in a modern day context.

reply to post by joeyv23


Salvation comes from within? I'm responsible for my condition in needing salvation. A sinner looking internally for a remedy for their own sin is like an alcoholic drinking to get sober.

reply to post by joeyv23


Yeah many people believe that. That you are your savior, or you can save yourself, or God is within and other variants. That's fine if you believe that. I'm not going to get into a you're wrong or right argument about it.

However, my religion, Christianity teaches you can't save yourself. For example one passage from the Bible says, "do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black." And like I said, I'm not saying you're wrong.

While that passage is out of context. But it always made me think. I can't even change the color of a single hair on my head, but I would have the audacity to think I was in control of anything? That I could beat death? That I could beat the grave?

But what I could never relate to is why one would want to save themselves and fall into a religion of works and rituals trying to appease a God, or trying to save themselves, when I think Jesus is so much cooler.

Instead of me trying to appease him, he loved me so much he died to save me, before I even knew him. Just seems like a cooler story.

Instead of me doing some weird chants or whatever trying to get some far away distant God to notice me, or doing some weird rituals trying to save myself.

Jesus does it backwards. He loved us so much he did all the work to get us to notice him and to come back to him like a father. And all we have to do is say, okay, save me, and I'm saved.

That's the story in Christianity that I always related to. That humans have strayed away from their father, but he came back to get us. Not the other way around like many religions where God is far away and we're trying to get him to come back to us.

reply to post by Dianec


I think your example is extremely immoral. What kind of person allows their friend to take the blame for a crime that they themselves committed.

reply to post by tinfoilman


Do you see the conflict when you agreed you can't change one hair on your head from white to black yet all you have to do is say Jesus save me and you are saved.The most miraculous action in all of the universe and you just say words and it happens like an incantation.

The fact is beyond what you stated .Yes...Man can't save themselves from their "imperfection" of falling short of and missing the mark of perfection....only God can.That also means man has ZERO part in their salvation.Imperfect men cannot have any part of their change.That is tantamount to lifting yourself up by your own bootstraps...impossible.

The OP is right....salvation is from within ...and very wrong ...it is not of man.One sure fact is ...there is a God and you aren't him.God is the God of Salvation of ALL mankind.That's what God does.He needs no help nor can have no help.

reply to post by Rex282


I don't see any conflict. Perhaps you misread my post. That's what I was getting at. How can I save myself if I can't even change the color of a single hair on my head?

Only God can do that and only God can save me.

Originally posted by tinfoilman
I don't see any conflict. Perhaps you misread my post. That's what I was getting at. How can I save myself if I can't even change the color of a single hair on my head?Only God can do that and only God can save me.

I apologize if I read it wrong however you clearly said this

Originally posted by tinfoilman

Jesus does it backwards. He loved us so much he did all the work to get us to notice him and to come back to him like a father. And ALL WE HAVE to DO is SAY, okay, SAVE ME, and I'm saved.

That was my point.Saying "save me" does not save you at all.In fact no one is "saved" past tense.Salvation is an infinite process.ALL of it is being caused by God and none of it is being caused by man.Man is under a strong delusion that they can do something ....even something as small as a prayer to contribute to their salvation. which leads to more and more delusion since that is the cornerstone everything is built from..A little leaven makes the whole lump leavened.

In one sense it doesn't effect the fact of salvation because you believe something that isn't true.God is saving you regardless of your ignorance of that truth.However just like all false doctrines of men it is not profitable to the believer.I am not condemning you for not seeing this I was just making a point that is The Truth in counter to something that isn't.It is nothing personal in the least.There are billions of people that believe the same thing in ignorance.

reply to post by Rex282


I think you're obsessing too much over it and missing the moral of the story. It's just an expression. You don't even have to say anything to be saved.

But even if you did there's a difference between doing something yourself and asking your father to do it for you. Asking Jesus to save you or accepting his salvation is far different than trying to save yourself.

Like a little kid that can't drive asks his father to take him to school. No matter what the kid does he can't drive himself to school because he doesn't have a car and doesn't know how to drive. He needs his father for that because only his father can do it.

But if he happens to say hey, okay dad take me to school. I wouldn't make the illogical jump to oh look the kid drove himself to school and did all the work to get himself there without his father's help. Obviously the father did all the driving. The kid just accepted the invitation.

There's also no reason to make the same illogical jump when it comes to Jesus. Man can't do anything to earn his salvation, it's a free gift. But that doesn't mean man can't do anything at all. He can still accept the gift or not. He just can't earn the gift.

reply to post by tinfoilman


I'll make my point one more time and leave it at that.If you were drowning in a river and were unconscious and there is someone on shore that clearly sees you and knows your condition and has all the necassary accutuments to save you it is not only unecassary but impossible for you first to aacept the free gift of them saving you.You'll have no part in your rescue at all.

God is saving ALL mankind regardless of their condition or their willingness or unwilligness to accept the free gift.He is not asking permission.There are no conditions for the rescue to be carried out in the least because it is Gods nature to save.God can't do otherwise because it is against his nature.It doesn't matter one iota what man wants or wills Gods will trumps it to infinity. ..and that's the second part of my point.It is God that does everything 100% from beginning to end(in this case infinity).You can be deluded that you are saved because you accepted the free gift however that is 100% incorrect and does not change the fact you are being saved.

What it does do is hender the process.Struggling against the current and flailng your arms out of instinct once the rescuer gets a hold of you is the problem.All it does is lengthens the process and make it more difficult for the distressor.The rescuer is going to save you in spite of you without your permission and despite your resistence to do it their way.

This should be a very obvious scenario but it isn't. Billions will continue to beleive they have to accept the gift of being saved to be saved and consequentialy there are billions of unconscious drowning people on the planet making wakes into tidal waves because they resist the rescuers efforts.If you believe that is a small point I suggest you wear a suit of life perservers...you'll need them..

reply to post by joeyv23


As "WE" build the house "together" based on the projected energy from within. in mind, thought of ALL* shall be...

nice share joeyv23


NAMASTE*******

reply to post by Rex282


I think you misunderstand me again. Like I tried to explain in my first post, I don't wish to argue with others about what they believe or tell anyone they're wrong. I only wish to clarify my post and what I believe and why it makes more sense to me in contrast to what OP believes. So, I only try to explain my belief. I'm not trying to explain why mine is right. OP might be right, but I'm only explaining why his view doesn't speak to me.

If you believe something else that's fine, but I don't wish to get into arguments about who's right and who's wrong. Just why what I believe makes more sense to me.

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by Rex282

 

I think you misunderstand me again. Like I tried to explain in my first post, I don't wish to argue with others about what they believe or tell anyone they're wrong. I only wish to clarify my post and what I believe and why it makes more sense to me in contrast to what OP believes. So, I only try to explain my belief. I'm not trying to explain why mine is right. OP might be right, but I'm only explaining why his view doesn't speak to me.

If you believe something else that's fine, but I don't wish to get into arguments about who's right and who's wrong. Just why what I believe makes more sense to me.

edit on 22-8-2013 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

I understand what you are saying very very well ...it ain't rocket surgery.I am not arguing either.What you believe doesn't matter to me at all.I am not trying to explain what speaks to me at all either.I could care less what I "feel". I only care about the Truth not what I "believe" makes sense.I've believed many things that weren't the Truth and it never made them any less false.

reply to post by ezekielken


You are most welcome

Thank you all for commenting, I am going to attempt now to work through and address the points that you all brought up.

Originally posted by Dianec
I think of it this way. If a friend and I got caught because I did something bad and he took the blame for it it would be similar to what the meaning behind Jesus dying for our sins Is about. We are caught and he says to the officer - "I did it and I take full responsibility". I know it was me who did the deed. The officer tells my friend to come with him - he will be shot. I quietly ask my friend, "why are you doing this?" He says "because I want you to live"; "go on and live a good life, learn from this and remember that I love you this much - and I believe in you". If you blow it again just remember what is happening now and what I had to sacrifice - it will remind you and help you decide differently. Think about it - would you be able to keep on committing crimes after something like that or would it change you? If you cared about that friend it would change you. If you didn't, then it may not alter anything.

You definitely have to take responsibility for your choices. This lesson isn't about Jesus being a perpetual get out of jail free card. The lesson is that if someone else can love you enough to give you another change maybe that love can rub off and bring about lasting change.

Thank you for your response. I want to say first that anything I say that goes against the accepted belief systems of any religion is not said with malice or disrespect. I respect all paths. Christianity is the foundation that my spiritual understanding began upon in this incarnation and the Jesus story was the hardest thing for me to reconcile. Now that I have, I feel the need to help put the info out there.

I do agree in that the story that made it's way down to us was one of Love, I did bring this up because Jesus is used as a "perpetual get out of jail free card". It's my understanding that he didn't in fact die on the cross, was healed in 3 days and spent the remainder of his years (well over 100 of them) in India under the name Esu continuing his ministry.

There are many facts given in the book that in many people's eyes, including mine, were deliberately falsified in order to establish control over the masses. I don't intend to start a flame war. I simply feel it's necessary to tell it like I see it, and hopefully we can talk about this like adults, knowing that we are only expressing our individuality and thought processes.

A few things I see wrong with the accepted story:
-His name wasn't Jesus, it was Immanuel which meant "God among us".
-Mary Magdelene was his wife, not a whore. The intentional degradation of this woman set the stage for a male dominated mindset that we are only recently beginning to rectify.
-Judas Iscariot was one of Immanuel's closest friends and disciples and did not betray him with a kiss. It was Juda Iharioth
-Immanuel didn't die on the cross, he was healed in the tomb for three days and after making his famed appearances after the event went on to live the remainder of his years (well over 100) with his family and a handful of disciples in India under the name Esu. (I really think this is where the name Jesus) came from.

There are many other points I would love to talk about, but the story begins to get into the metaphysical side of reality, and I will be happy to talk about what I've learned if you guys are interested, but for now I hope you guys can see a bit better where I'm coming from.

reply to post by tetra50

Thank you for your time and response

In order for me to respond to your post, I think I pretty much have to give my worldview. I see duality around us yes. I also see beyond the perspective of duality. All things that can be picked apart into a dualistic understanding are both A, B, and A+B=C. Good(A) and bad(B) (and more specifically in line with this thread.. sins) are subjective. I try to see both sides of the coin... and then remember I'm looking at a coin (A+B=C) in the first place. I hope that makes sense outside of my head lol.

To make an analogy of this point... Murder. Sin. Bad. Right? Murder in the name of (insert religious icon here) ... not sin. Good. Right? I don't mean to say that you condone murder, I'm simply pointing out how throughout the ages we have picked and chosen, at our discretion which side of the coin to say we live life from and for. The zealots that perpetuated the Crusades thought they were doing so for righteous justice, and that the killing was warranted and even necessary. Looking back at it.. all I see is murder plain and simple. Is it right? It was to them at that time. Is it wrong? To many of us today, the answer is yes. Are both viewpoints wrong? I don't think so. From my perspective and personal experience, I know reincarnation to be real and therefore death isn't the end of one's book of life, but rather the end of a chapter.

Ok so I see us as being of one major powerhouse of infinite potential that we call God. As aspects of it, and in order to learn about all the different facets of what it means to be "God" we descended into lower vibratory frequencies (dimensions) in order to experience the separation which I mentioned before. With this separation and drop below the veil, we, "God" have been experiencing the most difficult trials imaginable (FTR I don't think Earth is the only place this is going / has gone down) in order to learn and grow. If things were always easy and there was never any suffering.. would we have felt the need to learn more? Even if the need to learn more wasn't felt, would we have learned anything in the first place? Would we be having this conversation right now?

Another way of looking at it... The point of singularity from which our local Universe emerged (wholeness) expanded outwards in all directions. The further away (lower vibrations and outwards) from the original Source consciousness, which is all the dimensions wrapped up (I imagine it to be pure loving light energy) the more separate an aspect feels from the perspective of wholeness. We have descended into the "Hell" vibrations and are moving back up/in. Imagine an apple.. the core is the originating point. The skin of the apple is what I see as the lower vibrations/dimensions. I see us as most recently having been outside the skin looking in (and at the same time from our individuated perspectives.. out) and are just now breaking past the skin again on our way back to the core.

When I said it perpetuates the illusion, I was falling into the trap of only talking about (A), and I left out (B) and (A+B=C). I see separation and duality, from the perspective of actually BEING in a a vibration that was created for the purpose of separation and duality as being very real.. (B) From a higher dimensional perspective, it is an illusion (A) of separation because even though we are below the veil and for the most part don't remember that we ARE the energy of "God" we are never outside of existence and therefore never actually separate from "God". On this subject, I will say that beyond being able to see A and B here, trying to see (A+B=C) is a higher perspective than I currently only have a limited conception of.

Back to your point, Yes, we are many! But I see the many as being integral to the whole energetic system construct that we call "God" and therefore part of the One. Going back to duality, I also see us as being two in that we have both masculine and feminine aspects in each of us. I see the wholly (did that on purpose) trinity as being the energy of the Divine Masculine (Father God).. [A], Divine Feminine (Mother Goddess).. [B] and the union of these energies (Creation).. [A+B=C]

I see science as only being able to get half the picture. We are in the the process of balancing Science/Left Brain/Masculine energy(A) with Intuition/Right Brain/Feminine energy(B). I'm beyond excited to see what happens when we discover/remember what (A+B=C) is

I hope that I will have cleared up the points that you brought to my attention, and that my thought processes make their way past my screen. Thank you again