An image of Comet Ison or is it really a comet?

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by filledcup

 

I gave you an example

And thats from the ground based telescope.

yes but what's the time frame of these shots? months not so? how much action would we see in 43 minutes on that photo?

Originally posted by NeoParadigm
My point is that they can see it right now, but not in detail

And yet, the number of astronomers who are viewing this now and claim it to be some weird triangular line thing = zero.

HERE is another random page from an astronomer with a whole bunch more photos taken in the last few days.

reply to post by filledcup


I would suspect that the hubble telescope would move faster than the earth's orbit correct?

reply to post by alfa1


Playing devil's advocate here.

The point was that when people said that NASA couldn't be trusted, you said that amateurs are watching it too.

I'm just saying that those amateurs are not capable of proving it is not a spaceship, because they are not capable of looking at it in detail, they can only see something is there.

So the fact that amateurs are not seeing anything strange at this point does not mean that NASA is not lying, and tht it is not something strange.

Again, devil's advocate, you know my stance.

Originally posted by filledcup
ok so hubble is orbiting the earth basically along a band of the equator while it films the backdrop? let me just say.. my imagination says that would not cause any apparent change of direction. but earth's movement around the Sun would. just.. how much would the earth move around the sun in 43 minutes? i dont think it would enough to show such a change. had this been a composite of images over a period of months yes.

Hubble orbits on a plane that's inclined 28.5° compared to the equator. It's orbital velocity is 7.5 km/s. In 2300 seconds, it can travel 17,250 km. The Earth's orbital velocity 29.78 km/s. In 2300 seconds, it can travel 68,494 km. Combining those two, the maximum distance Hubble can travel in 2300 seconds is 85,744 km. That's over 6.5 times the diameter of the Earth itself.

In the plots I've provided, the cyclical nature of the movement (as ISON comes up to a point, then sweep on to the next point) is due to Hubble's orbit around the Earth. The general movement from the lower right to upper left is due to Earth's movement around the sun. If Hubble was stationary with respect to the Earth, the path would be a straight line. If the Earth didn't orbit around the sun, but Hubble still orbited around the Earth, the path would oscillate back and forth between two points. If the Earth didn't orbit and Hubble was stationary with respect to the Earth, the path would actually just be a single point and ISOn wouldn't move with respect to the background stars (we're ignoring ISON's movement in these scenarios because over the 2300 second time frame, it's so small).

Hopefully this explains the appearance of the path, and how it is created both from the motion of Hubble around the Earth, and Earth's movement around the sun.

Think i've changed my mind.

it now looks as if the comet is blazing through Space burning up at the same time...... must be pretty huge comet though

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by filledcup

 

I would suspect that the hubble telescope would move faster than the earth's orbit correct?

faster than the earth's orbit around the sun when measured in time taken, yes. but would it move faster than the 'rotation/revolution speed' of the earth?

reply to post by filledcup


Perhaps his post will explain better?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This video explains the ISON image artifact you're discussing here:

(It's explained within the 1st few minutes)

Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by filledcup
ok so hubble is orbiting the earth basically along a band of the equator while it films the backdrop? let me just say.. my imagination says that would not cause any apparent change of direction. but earth's movement around the Sun would. just.. how much would the earth move around the sun in 43 minutes? i dont think it would enough to show such a change. had this been a composite of images over a period of months yes.

Hubble orbits on a plane that's inclined 28.5° compared to the equator. It's orbital velocity is 7.5 km/s. In 2300 seconds, it can travel 17,250 km. The Earth's orbital velocity 29.78 km/s. In 2300 seconds, it can travel 68,494 km. Combining those two, the maximum distance Hubble can travel in 2300 seconds is 85,744 km. That's over 6.5 times the diameter of the Earth itself.

In the plots I've provided, the cyclical nature of the movement (as ISON comes up to a point, then sweep on to the next point) is due to Hubble's orbit around the Earth. The general movement from the lower right to upper left is due to Earth's movement around the sun. If Hubble was stationary with respect to the Earth, the path would be a straight line. If the Earth didn't orbit around the sun, but Hubble still orbited around the Earth, the path would oscillate back and forth between two points. If the Earth didn't orbit and Hubble was stationary with respect to the Earth, the path would actually just be a single point and ISOn wouldn't move with respect to the background stars (we're ignoring ISON's movement in these scenarios because over the 2300 second time frame, it's so small).

Hopefully this explains the appearance of the path, and how it is created both from the motion of Hubble around the Earth, and Earth's movement around the sun.

ok so the path is a straight line tho! also.. the orbit of hubble is a straight line. 17,250 km can be seen as a drop in the bucket. much like trying to outrun the sun on foot on the earth's surface.

the issue now is.. if the comet is moving in a straight line.. and so is hubble, why is there a 'crescent' shape coming from the path? is hubble covering enough distance in 43 minutes/17,250km in orbit to move Up and then Down again across the equator, creating the crescent/boomerang shape?

reply to post by Phantasm


Yes this video plus other posts including my posts.

/thread

reply to post by filledcup


Give it up dude. It's over.

reply to post by Trillium


I 100% agree..this just doesnt make me say..ahhh..so that's it!!!

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by filledcup

 

Give it up dude. It's over.

im not saying this is a spaceship. im just trying to understand now what in hubble's movement will create a total change in direction over just 43 minutes. in the video posted which is supposed to explain in the first few minutes. the presenter only says "because the hubble moved". we established that on like the first page of the thread.

now i want to know how hubble moved.

when i am observing a plane to the south taking off from afar as it moves to my left. if i move, alongside the plane or even in the opposite direction(right), the plane will not even 'seem' to change direction. id have to cover alot of ground moving 'toward the plane' for the viewpoint to be significantly changed enough to seem like its travelling in a different direction from the original viewpoint.

i am aware and open to the fact that i may be missing some pieces of information which makes this open and shut. im just trying to see if i can get that information from those in this thread

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


There's several reasons for that. The first one being the fact that you can't even grasp the first aspect of this equation, namely that the pics were made with long exposure shots.

Then there are several other concepts you have no clue about.

Let's just say you are unable to compute.

Sorry.

Originally posted by filledcupok so the path is a straight line tho! also.. the orbit of hubble is a straight line. 17,250 km can be seen as a drop in the bucket. much like trying to outrun the sun on foot on the earth's surface.

the issue now is.. if the comet is moving in a straight line.. and so is hubble, why is there a 'crescent' shape coming from the path? is hubble covering enough distance in 43 minutes/17,250km in orbit to move Up and then Down again across the equator, creating the crescent/boomerang shape?

edit on 20-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)

Hubble isn't moving in a straight line. Here's a picture of the Earth as seen from ISON. The dark green line running from lower left to upper right is the Earth's orbit around the sun. The plotted light green line is Hubble's position plotted over one orbit (about 90 minutes).



You can see it doesn't move in a straight line at all because Hubble's orbit is inclined relative to the plane of the Earth's orbit. From start to end, Hubble's location in space has moved over 5 Earth diameters.

Originally posted by nataylor

Originally posted by filledcupok so the path is a straight line tho! also.. the orbit of hubble is a straight line. 17,250 km can be seen as a drop in the bucket. much like trying to outrun the sun on foot on the earth's surface.

the issue now is.. if the comet is moving in a straight line.. and so is hubble, why is there a 'crescent' shape coming from the path? is hubble covering enough distance in 43 minutes/17,250km in orbit to move Up and then Down again across the equator, creating the crescent/boomerang shape?

edit on 20-8-2013 by filledcup because: (no reason given)

Hubble isn't moving in a straight line. Here's a picture of the Earth as seen from ISON. The dark green line running from lower left to upper right is the Earth's orbit around the sun. The plotted light green line is Hubble's position plotted over one orbit (about 90 minutes).

You can see it doesn't move in a straight line at all because Hubble's orbit is inclined relative to the plane of the Earth's orbit. From start to end, Hubble's location in space has moved over 5 Earth diameters.

in 43 minutes. are you making these diagrams? how much would hubble move in 43 minutes? can u show that path and it's length? can u draw it on the surface of the earth instead of the backdrop of space instead?

reply to post by filledcup


I know others explained this to you above.

Imagine you trying to take a picture of this spot against the background while you're moving fast.

Remember that object is moving too (as I have shown you in my examples)

reply to post by filledcup


You are right in wanting a clear picture of the movement. I find it hard to visualise too.

Since it is in orbit it moves away in an arc in relation to the comet, and when it has completed a half the orbit it moves in a arc towards to the comet again.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

reply to post by filledcup

Here's an animation showing the HST's movement over 90 minutes. Each step is 5 minutes.



In 43 minutes, it travels about half of the indicated path.