The Lost Cradle of Civilization

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I've been toying with the idea of writing this thread for a while. I wasn't exactly sure how and where to present it. So, here it goes. For a few years now I've been reading threads posted by others, I've written quite a few of my own and have participated in some very well written and articulated arguments and hypothesis with regards to various conjecture filled premises. I'd like to share one of my own with you. This idea has been bouncing around in my head for quite some time now.....

HI, this is an amazing post and thread, almost too fine to be in an internet forum. To really go into it would take me the better part of a day's time so I will limit myself here to some small details.

I'd like to say also that whatever I snip here in the body of your text, the result I get always is the following paragraph - everytime ending where it does, as shown here. Must be some glitch in the forum software or maybe some browser problem, so I'll just leave it as is:

"Now, a research paper published in Current Anthropology provides scientific evidence for such a lost ancient civilization, evidence that confirms much of Genesis 1–11’s historical account of humanity’s early days.1 University of Birmingham archeologist Jeffrey Rose reports on the discovery, conducted over the past six years, of over sixty new archeological sites along the shoreline of the Persian Gulf. All of these sites are dated as older than 7,500 years. Rose states that “these settlements boast well-built permanent stone houses, long-distance trade networks, elaborately decorated pottery, domesticated animals, and even evidence for on"

I just wanted to remark on the "Out of Africa" theory - I don't say no humans ever came out of Africa; and I also don't adhere to the notion that ALL humans came out of Africa. The truth could lie somewhere inbetween.

The Atlantis theory does state that the first inhabitants of that continent were in fact black humans who migrated to its southern parts from what remained from the Lemurian continent.

Another thing is that what we find of those old civilizations around the Gulf region are IMHO probably the remains of civilizations founded by old Atlantean colonies, the theory being that before the destruction of Atlantis, a select group of individuals were led to some part of inner Asia (living on today as the myth of Shambhala and Agartha) and resulted in a new civilization which seeded northern India and other regions to the south-west.

Originally posted by TheIceQueen

Originally posted by SLAYER69

They change the alleged time that "modern humans" migrated out of Africa on a constant basis as well as what their definition of "modern humans" is..

You must remember, however, that humans ARE related to neanderthals (every population except for Sub Saharan Africans) have a portion of neanderthal 'in them', while this is another one of those 'at odds' constantly changing around subject for them, (go figure), it is no longer deniable, it is a fact. Evidence of neanderthal culture spans to over a half a million years ago... Neanderthals buried their dead, wore jewelry and clothing, cared for their elderly, played music (as a handful of remnants of musical instruments have been found), and their brains were very large (compared to most modern populations).

They were also ancient mariners- www.livescience.com...

The way that neanderthals have been and still are, sadly, depicted is completely inaccurate. Mainstream's out of africa doctrine is complete horse #. And that's that.

edit on 18-8-2013 by TheIceQueen because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-8-2013 by TheIceQueen because: (no reason given)

The Atlantis theory (the one as propounded by some esoteric sources such as Blavatsky and Steiner) says the first Atlanteans - the first "subrace" as termed by Blavatsky as there were supposed to be seven during the whole Atlantean epoch - were in fact black-skinned giants who migrated to the southern region of the Atlantean continent at a time when parts of the Lemurian continent still existed, from the most western part of the latter, which was located at more or less the geographic coordinates of today's gulf of Guinee.

Makes sense ? I think it does, as from that point those humans staying in those parts which would later become the African continent would have no Neanderthal DNA in them, while most of the rest of the world (not necessarily all of it) would as they would meet with the old Neanderthal (or.should I say "Neanderthaloid") strains.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

A lot to take in.

Would your hypothesis also explain the ancient artifacts like the supposed 5,000 year old spark plugs and such?

Personally I think those "spark plugs" are either a hoax, or a misrepresentation. If those "batteries" found at Bagdad really were what some claim them to be, wouldn't those old civilizations have known electricity ? We ourselves didn't find out about the principles of storing electrical energy before we got acquainted for a long time electricity itself, its manifestations, and how to produce it.

reply to post by BlueLobster



I was under the impression the 'Spark Plug' was discovered in the South West US?
In any case it is an interesting artifact imho. Whether real or hoaxed who knows. I'd like to see it for myself.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I can remember when I was in grade school, a long time ago, we were told there were "essentially" three cradles of civilization.
There was of course Egypt.
The furtile cresent, a region which incorporated the Tigris and Euphraties Rivers and curvered toward the Mediterranian sea.
And the Indus Valley, which is the area you are discussing.
I mentioned this in support of what you are saying and to show you are on the right track.
I have not read much on this subject since school but I do remember these points.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by BlueLobster

 

I was under the impression the 'Spark Plug' was discovered in the South West US?
In any case it is an interesting artifact imho. Whether real or hoaxed who knows. I'd like to see it for myself.

Oh. I thought the poster was in fact talking about the famous Bagdad battery. I didn't know there was actually something else like a "spark plug".

But it's the same thing. As you are saying, who knows whether they are real of hoaxes.
I know some very famous hoaxes have been perpetrated in science, amongst them the "Piltdown Man". But who's to say there wasn't some hominid at some time looking like what was thought to be the "Piltdown Man" ? How you call it is really of minor importance, isn't it ?

And just now, these days in the papers in Belgium you read about how a lady scientist sneaked into her own lab at night in order to forge research results... those things must be more common than we think they are.

I really enjoyed your writings.I guess you are a fan of Immanuel Velikovsky too,because your work,in my opinion,is very connected with Velikovsky theories.I don't believe in everything Velikosky believe,but he is very enlightening most of the time.Thanks,and scuse my bad english

reply to post by SLAYER69

Great work!
Thank you for this educated contribution!

I have been following potential geological or climatical origins for the given flood myths for quite a while. It has been a while since it became clear that the black sea was once a well inhabited, sweet-water lake/swamp - making up the first scientifically nominated candidate for the sumerian/biblical flood myths.
Since then, further evidence has emerged to show that there were quite a number of regions, which "dove off" since our species has been around. Any predating of "out of africa" should enlarge the potential reservoir of drowned sites.

Taking into consideration "unusual" submerged structures (up to the 60 metre depth-mark) that have been reported form several places around the world, I feel a strong urge to set the point for the very first "civilisation" somewhere right into the last ice-age.

Thus I would not doubt at all, that there may have been something of a common ancestor to several of the earliest known cultures. And the gulf-region seems increasingly like a good candidate for this :-)

reply to post by angkory13


I've never heard of him. Now, I'm off to read about a new and fresh perspective

Thanks for the lead

check this > OVNI avistado en Monterrey, México, el pasado 5 de julio ow.ly...

What I find interesting is on the map it says Assur and I know that in ancient vedic text it talks about the battle between the Asuras and the devas, maybe not mythology at all but memory's of a real battle!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hi slayer
You know,
In a past thread, might have been one of yours, Hans posted a link to a paper on mid holocene littoral communitys along the west coast of the Persian gulf. The reason I remember is that they said in some places, when the waters started rise, it was so flat the the water progressed inland a km per day.
I'll try to track down the paper.

reply to post by punkinworks10


Thanks for the heads up

I'm off to do some digging around in older posts and threads for that info. I've something else that may be pertinent to that bit of info

TU

Excellent post my friend. Another thing to consider is with Australia and New Zealand. Scientists have now confirmed that humans settled both islands more than 40,000 years ago. Now, this means that we were already making boats way back then since both landmasses have been islands for over 1 million years. I will grant you that sea levels were much lower but there is still no way that humans could have swam or accidently drifted onto these land masses. It makes you wonder if we have indeed advanced and then through some kind of major caticlysm we fell back into savages again. That is my personal opinion. There is way too much overlap in legends and myths that match too closely. I think that the more we explore our ocean's bottoms, the more we are going to find our real ancient past and it will be far more astonishing that anything we think might have happened in our history of mankind. As always. enjoyed your post and keep up the great writing.

Originally posted by 304edgewood
Excellent post my friend. Another thing to consider is with Australia and New Zealand. Scientists have now confirmed that humans settled both islands more than 40,000 years ago.

Um, as a 'Kiwi', that seems a bit far-fetched.
Could you please link me to the information where the Scientists have said that about human settlement in New Zealand 40 000BP. As far as pollen records go, this would appear to be wrong.

reply to post by SLAYER69


how bout this- there wasn't any pedestrian migration anywhere, we were scattered around and given very particular seeds for culture by the people who made us and then they left us to fend for ourselves?

reply to post by MarsSentinel


The following contains speculation in the field, it does not represent my thoughts and belief, it is being presented to share information only. If anything in it strikes your interest research and start a thread if it is too far off topic... That being said

Well, the alien theory has a strong link to Sumerian history, without it alien intervention wouldn't have much to stand on. But considering the oldest written creation story says we were created in clay pots / or test tubes if you will suggesting we were genetically spliced or created to serve as slaves also claimed to be written on these tablets, then one wonders why there are also extensive prehistoric gold mines... what would prehistoric man running from predators on the plains of Africa need tons of gold for? It is in no way essential for survival and he currency there wasn't gold it was shells. So without really knowing the reasoning or purpose behind these stories or mines or other things that make little sense in modern thinking, all that is left is to fill the gap with theory. Science is still looking and ancient alien astronaut theorists as much reaching as they do, get some foothold using these unknowns... hell it sounds plausible to logic and rationality, until something definitive either way still just a belief.

If you look at all the early creation myths, most of them talk about having a fake sky... one that you could actually touch, if you take the ark myth as a spaceship and the sky as covered domes and think of it as alien earth colonization, where the domes (bars of the zoo) were eventually removed and the animals(us) get to run around free... it gets really out there but hell if anything makes for a good science fiction story. Yet most myth has a root of actual truth, the problem is is decoding what the hell it is they were referring too... if it is not something that we can clearly put our finger on... why did so many cultures never in contact all say the sky was once a hard physical dome then one day it wasn't? Where were these people experiencing a sky that looked like the sky but could touch it in all the areas these different stories come from?

So, yeah I find those stories fascinating it gets my urge to research juices flowing, and mind drift into what if fantasy, but at the same time without a definitive answer from actual peer reviewed evidence stating it a fact then it's just a belief. I don't want to believe and part of me doesn't want the answers either... because the more we know the less mysterious and exciting a place the world becomes, and there's not much luster in it too enjoy much anymore... a kid is full of wonder and passion when they see the sky is blue and wonder why, then they ask and you say reflection ocean light yadda yadda, you just snuffed out all of that terrific curiosity and wonder about the sky. All the answers belief? Bah humbug I like the magic of the unknown and the ability to go into flights of fancy from time to time on unknown subjects.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness

But considering the oldest written creation story says we were created in clay pots / or test tubes if you will suggesting we were genetically spliced or created...

"Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Dust of the ground? Clay pots / test tubes? Clay is the ground and pots (test tubes) are made from clay, quite similar, if you are looking at the situation from a primitive or ignorant perspective IMO.

to serve as slaves also claimed to be written on these tablets, then one wonders why there are also extensive prehistoric gold mines... what would prehistoric man running from predators on the plains of Africa need tons of gold for?

"The name of the first is Pishon; that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; and the gold of that land is good; there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

Again, a very similar account from Genesis...as you rightly say, what practical use would gold be to such primitive hunter /gatherer peoples scavaging to survive amid fierce creatures looking to survive also...?

And why does God apparently have such a preoccupation with Gold and other precious metals and minerals?
If a creator god made the Earth and everything in and on it, and thought 'Gold was good'..one then wonders why not just create more of the stuff if it's so good?

If you look at all the early creation myths, most of them talk about having a fake sky... one that you could actually touch, if you take the ark myth as a spaceship and the sky as covered domes and think of it as alien earth colonization, where the domes (bars of the zoo) were eventually removed and the animals(us) get to run around free... it gets really out there but hell if anything makes for a good science fiction story.

If we should have learned anything by now, it ought to be that truth can often be stranger than fiction.

I can easily imagine an Ark as starship, perhaps a generation starship complete with large transparent domes for aggricultural growing and oxygen creation / CO2 scrubbing / water purification (NASA has raised the possibility of creating such a ship to travel to our nearest stars..only the grandchildren or great grandchildren of the original crew would see the destination..unless of course there were NO crew onboard to start the journey, Frozen embryos and artificial wombs under advanced AI control would be a better option for a colonising interstellar mission. The people would be created in advance of arrival, to be young adults upon arrival, with the 'breath of god' breathed into them (or IOW the Advanced AI activated the artificial wombs, grew the embryos and pumped oxygen and nutrients into them as they grew)

The 'sky you can touch' could well be looked at as a clear dome or a series of them on the Ark itself...when at the destination (Earth) the dome is removed (the people are removed from the ship, and can no longer 'touch the sky' / dome interior surface.)

Bah humbug I like the magic of the unknown and the ability to go into flights of fancy from time to time on unknown subjects.

I'm the opposite...i hate the unknown, i prefer knowing to mystery. Knowing the facts allows a larger springboard for fantasy, as you're better informed to begin with. Knowledge allows us to mature and to no longer fear that which we do not comprehend..it allows us to create devices and mechanisms to prevent or minimise that fear.

When i browse or theorise about mysterious topics, i don't do so because i enjoy the mysterious topics...i do it so it will no longer be a mystery to me.

But hey, we're all different and have various motivations.

reply to post by MysterX


The bible stories were borrowed from much earlier ones, with their own spin to it.

Now lets get out there a little further, lets say we were just dna samples mixed with the hominids already developing here, new planet new infections the local populous would already have millions of years of evolutionary immunity to what could be super bugs to alien genetics. Perhaps that's the metaphor, when we were set free, we blended and eventually mixed out and dominated the hominids not genetically grown or implanted fetuses with out a known father... making the virgin birth a strong mythos to grasp later on. Some may have been educated in various disciplines aboard the craft and emerged as gods to help control us for some agenda such as gold gathering and other material gathering, perhaps they never left, but continue to implant and abduct and push agenda, a slave culture since the first epoch... blind to it like those in the matrix not knowing they are batteries; living in a dream not knowing they are slaves to something unseen.

The cradle of civilization? Hell, if aliens have been here and are still here? That's it, go outside and wave at our secret reason for being...

Speculative reaching... but the funny thing is pretty much all of this is in the realm of science right now... no reason Earth wasn't really once mars when we first crawled out of a primordial soup, then who's to say Venus wasn't Earth 2, and we poisoned our atmosphere and then we had to move again to here. Perhaps we are slaves to a much older us that would appear very alien by now, and we have two missing links, white corn brother from the Hopi and the poor hominids we replaced in our very own solar system, now seeing the same problems arising... the elite controllers or hidden hand using us all for slaves and entertainment are ready to jump ship else where and start Earth 4 at some point when another home with early hominids are found, kinda funny how technology always seem to be concurrent with certain events or show up right when it's needed.

Ok, enough fun for now. thanks for indulging my flights of fancy and expanding on it egging things further. I feel that's the core of ATS so hopefully the mods and OP can forgive these posts.