Protester shot in chest with his hands up - Egypt 2013

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

What? No proof whatsoever that the military shot anyone that was unarmed? Did you watch the video? that guy had his arms up in the air, he was wearing a t-shirt, he did not look armed! You say I have no proof that he was unarmed well where is your proof that he was armed? by the looks of it he wasnt!! And where is your proof that he was a member of Al Qaeda?

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

You are either so enraged that you can't read what I said, or you have a very hard time with reading comprehension. Probably both.

Here is what I said, several times in two posts:

Also, as I said earlier, those that are making rash accusations have no proof whatsoever that the military shot anyone that was unarmed

Why do I bother trying to explain? You can't even read a simple sentence and understand its meaning. Have a nice life. I won't bother responding anymore to someone who runs at the mouth without even understanding what was said to her.

If this case went to a fair court and got a fair trial with forensic detectives/science, eye witness's etc then my bet would be that the military would be found guilty of this crime. The video definitely leans toward that outcome.

And I find it ridiculous that some people in this thread assume they know what an Egyptian soldier will and wont do, we see soldiers all over the world committing crimes no matter how well they are 'trained', to vouch for an entire army is naive. I'm sure even 5 minutes on google would yield plenty more examples of this happening all over the world, past and present.

Time will tell.

If this case went to a fair court and got a fair trial with forensic detectives/science, eye witness's etc then my bet would be that the military would be found guilty of this crime. The video definitely leans toward that outcome. And I find it ridiculous that some people in this thread assume they know what an Egyptian soldier will and wont do, we see soldiers all over the world committing crimes no matter how well they are 'trained', to vouch for an entire army is naive. I'm sure even 5 minutes on google would yield plenty more examples of this happening all over the world, past and present.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

Fortunately, in America, we don't convict people based upon your "bet". There is absolutely no evidence that this alleged act was performed by ANYONE in particular. Until such evidence is produced, it is absolutely wrong to condemn anyone without knowing the facts. Furthermore, the MSM is always looking for ways to instill their left-wing opinion upon "news" events. These almost always have political motives. One need only look at the Genghazi massacre of 4 Americans, to see how the political narrative influences the reports. Hillary Clinton claims that the attack was due to a youtube video that wasn't even seen by the terrorists, yet the dutiful, left-wing press in the US kept repeating that claim, for weeks, even though everyone KNEW it was an attack by terrorists. You, of all people, living in Northern Ireland should know how news reports are "colored" by the various factions that historically hated each other there. I will say, though, that the current criminal administration in the US have caused all the trouble in Egypt by their support of the MB, and the signals that they sent over the last few months. Like it or not, under Mubarak, Egypt was a peaceful country. Under the Morsi regime, thousands of Christian homes and churches were tourched, and Christians murdered, just because they were Christian. Since I lived in Egypt, and knew the political structure very well, I believe I have much more in the way of facts, that people such as you, that base your entire argument upon a youtube video.

Although the following is NOT related to the incident you posted, it is indicative of the things that the MB and Al Qaeda are doing. That is another reason that we cannot just take a youtube video or a biased reporter's claim that the incident was even real:

freebeacon.com...

Al Jazeera Caught Airing Fake Death of Muslim Brotherhood Protestor. Network has been criticized for pro-MB slant

The fake death was first flagged by FSA Crimes, an advocacy website that tracks alleged war crimes committed by rebel fighters battling Syrian President Bashar al Assad.

“Covered in blood, his hand rests on what would seem to be the source of that blood, a gunshot wound,” FSA write of the apparently staged death.

“‘Doctors’ surrounding him as he lays there, eyes shut and face frozen,” FSA writes. “One of the ‘doctors’ then decide to lift the mans shirt up and to the viewers big surprise, there is no wound underneath the shirt!”

“The supposed dead man, wanting to obstruct the view of his non-wound for the camera, then effortlessly re-positions his legs in way of the camera,” according to FSA Crimes.

Al Jazeera quickly cuts to a different angle once the man moves.

FSA Crimes says that the video is proof that the Qatari-owned and funded station is biased in favor the Muslim Brotherhood, which is protesting the ouster of former Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi.

If only the people of America would come together like the people of Egypt. Governments are collapsing all over Planet Earth, yet here we do nothing. They even created Occupy Wallstreet to try and pump us up, incite revolution. We did nothing. Broke some windows, yelled at cops. Nothing

Governments are collapsing all over Planet Earth, yet here we do nothing.

reply to post by r666evolution


One of the reasons that governments are collapsing is a three letter agency- the CIA. In addition, Obama makes Bush almost look like a peacenik. He has started more wars, both by subversion and military actions, than even Bush did, and of course, his promises to end all wars was a joke. Unfortunately, Obama has so many people on welfare, other government programs, and over 11,000,000 illegals on his side, and most important of all, he has his ministry of Propaganda, the MSM, spreading his lies, and hiding his treasonous acts. Furthermore, he has removed top military leaders that wanted him removed, using blackmail and lies to have them removed. Obama is truly a monster, and it just amazes me, that no one has the ba$$s to have him impeached.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


and this is another reason why people cant be naive and believe the Egyptian military and security forces are right in what they are doing -

This from the journalist Robert Fisk
( Fisk holds more British and International Journalism awards than any other foreign correspondent. He has also been voted International Journalist of the Year seven times. He has published a number of books and reported on several wars and armed conflicts)

these men – seized in Ramses Square on Saturday after the Cairo police and the army stormed into the al Fath mosque – supposedly tried to overturn the prison van taking them to jail. The state security police fired a tear gas grenade into the vehicle, and all died. And having looked at those awful cadavers in Cairo’s stinking mortuary, I have to say that these poor men – not charged with any crime, unaccused, untried, victims of the glorious ‘state of emergency’ with which Egypt is now blessed – died most terribly.

There comes a time when mere descriptions cannot balance the horror of the dead. But lest history forget or treat them with less compassion than they deserve, we must, I fear, confront the reality. The bodies were hideously bloated and they had been burned from head to toe. One man had a laceration at the throat, caused perhaps by a knife or a bullet. A colleague saw five other corpses in a similar state but with bullet holes in the throat. Outside the mortuary, the state-hired thugs of the Egyptian interior ministry tried to frighten journalists away.

Link

There is plenty more.

Fisk holds more British and International Journalism awards than any other foreign correspondent. He has also been voted International Journalist of the Year seven times. He has published a number of books and reported on several wars and armed conflicts

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


Forgive me if I don't put much credence in reports from a man who condemned the allied response to 9/11, and who was able to interview Osama Bin Laden three times. As for his awards, how about the fact that the left-wing Nobel "Peace" Prize committee awarded Obama, who has started more wars than Bush ever did, the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, having spent years in both business and academic careers, I saw enough awards given in both fields for political reasons, that I don't put much credence in those awards. Journalists have a bad habit of coloring reports to match their views, rather than merely reporting plain FACTS.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


It doesnt really matter how many journalists reports/ videos / links I put up here does it? because you will find a way to dismiss each and every one if they dont match your own personal views ( even though you are quite happy to post from one-sided news sources yourself )
I started this thread to highlight the shooting of an unarmed man. I deplore the murder of innocent civilians/bystanders/protestors.
No doubt innocent people have been murdered on both sides of this travesty, I think to believe that the military and security forces have not had a hand in any of these unlawful killings is being naive.

Like I said before, time will tell.

I think to believe that the military and security forces have not had a hand in any of these unlawful killings is being naive.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

First of all, I could just as easily say that the MB did it, and blamed it on the military. Second point, security forces are quite different from MILITARY forces. Many are contractors from foreign companies, such as the US and the UK. Third, videos are quite unreliable, as I could easily create a video showing alleged killings by Aliens from Mars, and all, but a few experts, would never be able to "disprove" the video. Fourth, in our country, you are innocent until proven guilty, although our left-wing press are prone to believe the opposite. Fifth, it is irresponsible to post an OP that convicts a person or group, when you know virtually nothing of the full situation there. You should be aware of that living in Northern Ireland, where Catholics have been oppressed for years, by the Ulster regime, and people like "Reverend" Paisley was responsible for so many murders.

I think to believe that the military and security forces have not had a hand in any of these unlawful killings is being naive.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

First of all, I could just as easily say that the MB did it, and blamed it on the military. Second point, security forces are quite different from MILITARY forces. Many are contractors from foreign companies, such as the US and the UK. Third, videos are quite unreliable, as I could easily create a video showing alleged killings by Aliens from Mars, and all, but a few experts, would never be able to "disprove" the video. Fourth, in our country, you are innocent until proven guilty, although our left-wing press are prone to believe the opposite. Fifth, it is irresponsible to post an OP that convicts a person or group, when you know virtually nothing of the full situation there. You should be aware of that living in Northern Ireland, where Catholics have been oppressed for years, by the Ulster regime, and people like "Reverend" Paisley was responsible for so many murders.

((((---UPDATE---))))


The Daily Telegraph has tracked down the man from the video, remarkably he is alive after two rounds of surgery after being shot in the stomach and the leg.

“I was hit by two bullets, one in my stomach and one in my leg,” he said.
“No one did any thing to provoke them, but it seems that they are intent on forcing silence on everyone, that anybody who says no to the coup will be killed or arrested. They are accusing us of being terrorists.”
Mr Rashwan, 34, an electronic engineer, was part of a crowd protesting in Ismailia, a town on the Suez Canal three hours’ drive south-east of Cairo.
The journalist who shot the video, Abdullah Shocha, who works for a pro-Islamist television station, caught the image of Mr Rashwan, whom he did not know before, approaching the tanks with his arms above his head in a gesture of surrender.
“After Friday prayers, the army besieged Saleheen Mosque, where the protesters were praying,” Mr Shocha said. “This man raised his hands, and as you can see he was not armed. They wanted to scatter the demonstrators.
First they shot into the air, and then they start to shoot directly at the crowds.
“He was shot in his stomach, and another four people were shot at the same time. Other people managed to pull him to the mosque.”
Speaking just after being released from hospital, Mr Rashwan, who is not a member of any political or Islamist group, said he had reacted to the first sounds of shooting. “I approached them to send a message that we were peaceful but they shot at me,” he said.
“I’m not a complete supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, but I’m afraid that the country is returning back to military rule and that is not a good future for my son, who I want to live a better life.”
As has repeatedly been seen in the last few days, the army’s methods of crowd control did not end with Mr Rashwan’s shooting. Mr Shocha said that shortly afterwards an army helicopter appeared in the sky above the mosque, and a gunman started shooting down on the crowd below.

So there you have it.

Here is the link to the full article -

Egypt protester shot at close range: 'we were sending a peaceful message but they shot me'

First they shot into the air, and then they start to shoot directly at the crowds.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

The above was allegedly spoken by the person in question. Martial Law was declared, and people were warned not to be on the street demonstrating. He violated that order. Next, they shot in the air, and everyone but him in the video withdrew. What did you expect them to do? He twice violated orders, the first, the martial law order, then the shots in the air. If I were a soldier, and a suspect approached me, after twice being warned, in that situation, I would assume he was a human bomb, and I would have shot him also. Yes, I would have. How many suicide bombers in the Middle East took out thousands of western troops? Furthermore, they shot low, not to kill, but to stop him. He was treated in the hospital AND RELEASED, so he was lucky. Maybe next time he will obey the martial law order and the shots in the air. Everyone else did. Our country lost too many good men and women to suicide bombers. Why do you think we all have to go through TSA checks at airports and other checkpoints?

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

I would assume he was a human bomb, and I would have shot him also. Yes, I would have.

Well its not surprising that you say that, I mean you did say earlier that you helped train Egyptian soldiers.

I suppose you would also agree with them shooting this man as he carries a wounded man over his shoulder to get him to safety? link

Oh how very brave of them, shooting at an unarmed men.

Just you keep on justifying it to yourself.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha


People live and people die what more justification are you seeking when you are old enough to know the world has problems, and people stuck in the thick of it suffer and die for little reason at all.

Oh how very brave of them, shooting at an unarmed men.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

You apparently selectively ignore what I said. He could have easily been a suicide bomber. Don't be so quick to convict someone unless you have been in their situation. Walk a mile in their shoes, and you will quickly change your tune. You live in a country that has oppressed people for hundreds of years. How about all those people that kill each other just because they are a certain brand of Christianity that is not their brand? Rather hypocritical, isn't it?

You can have the last word. Your righteous judgment of people without knowing the facts sickens me.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus

Oh how very brave of them, shooting at an unarmed men.

reply to post by Lady_Tuatha

 

You apparently selectively ignore what I said. He could have easily been a suicide bomber. Don't be so quick to convict someone unless you have been in their situation. Walk a mile in their shoes, and you will quickly change your tune. You live in a country that has oppressed people for hundreds of years. How about all those people that kill each other just because they are a certain brand of Christianity that is not their brand? Rather hypocritical, isn't it?

You can have the last word. Your righteous judgment of people without knowing the facts sickens me.

C'mon now really! did he look like a suicide bomber? he was wearing a flimsy tshirt. What about the guy carrying the wounded man, was he planning on blowing himself and the other man up? yeah, sure!
How am I being hypocritical? please explain?
Living here I have seen how brutal a supposedly well trained and professional military can be, which is why I think it is right to highlight such wrongdoing.

and it is your defense of such wrongdoing that sickens me.