Fine, call me ignorant. But how will you explain this?

www.guardian.co.uk...

The east London hall echoes to the sound of the speaker's voice: "They want us to redefine Islam to fit the agenda of the west," he intones, and the audience murmurs. "Islam is going to be political, no matter how hard they try. Islam itself is political. Allah has not remained silent when it comes to political matters."
The speaker is a member of Hizb ut Tahrir, the most controversial Islamic group in Britain today. Critics have called for the group to be banned, as it is in Germany, while supporters hail it as the saviour of the Muslim community. Hizb - the name means Party of Liberation in Arabic - is banned throughout the Middle East, and three British men are in jail in Egypt accused of propagating its views. In Uzbekistan, thousands of Hizb members are in jail, and a Russian thinktank has compared the group to al-Qaida.

Eighteen months ago, the group briefly appeared in the public eye when the wife of Omar Sharif, the Briton who launched a failed suicide-bomb attack in Tel Aviv, was found to have leaflets from the group in her home. Hizb ut Tahrir also has a presence on university campuses, where it has been accused of anti-semitism.

Until recently, the leadership of Hizb was secretive and cautious, reluctant to release details of the scale of its membership, its leadership structure or its funding. One ex-member who spent years with the group says there are probably only 500 members across the country, but the group may have 10 times that number as committed supporters. Hizb's annual conference in Birmingham last year attracted about 8,000, by the far the most for a Muslim organisation....

The leader of the group, a 28-year-old IT consultant called Jalaluddin Patel, is the first leader in its 18-year history in the UK to speak to the national press. He says Hizb has nothing to hide but will not release membership figures: "It's a genuine security issue. We're unsure about the manner in which western society would treat a group like ours."

Patel insists that Hizb is no threat to the west, but part of it. But he adds that the west "needs to understand what is really an inevitable matter, and that is that Islam is coming back, the Islamic caliphate is going to be implemented in the world very soon ... The Muslim people need to realise that the way in which they will restore a form of dignity and bring civilisation back to the Islamic world is to establish a modern caliphate."

There is nothing wrong with Islam.

Islam is not a threat to the West.

These are not the droids you were looking for.

Move along.

You will say that these people don't represent all Muslims. That may be so.

You may also say that these people do not represent "true" Islam.

You would be wrong.

By Allah's own eternal word, Hizb ut Tahrir has every right to believe in and fight for a world-wide Islamic caliphate. The moderates will say nothing because there is nothing they can say.

Al-Jih�d (holy fighting) in All�h�s Cause (with full force of numbers and weaponry) is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars (on which it stands). By Jih�d Islam is established, All�h�s Word is made superior (His Word being L� ilaha illall�h which means none has the right to be worshipped but All�h), and His religion (Islam) is propagated. By abandoning Jih�d (may All�h protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and the Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jih�d is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim, and he who tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart wish to fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite.

[002:193] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with All�h) and (all and every kind of) worship is for All�h (alone).

Allah Hafiz.

Not to seem rude or anything, but it might be easier for people to read this if it was all in one post and not spread over 3 different posts. Try editing the post Also I am not into the whole religious thing. I just thought I would tip you on that.

After this Pastor Scot referred to a letter to the editor in the Maccabean of September
14, 2001, p.3:
A few years ago, just after arriving in Sydney from Cairo, the then Grand Mufti
of Australia was interviewed by a reporter from the Australian Jewish News.
The Mufti stated that the moment Australia becomes 51% Moslem, it will be a
Moslem country. The reporter asked him about the other 49% and he replied
that they would �convert or leave�.

Originally posted by KAOSKTRL
After this Pastor Scot referred to a letter to the editor in the Maccabean of September
14, 2001, p.3:
A few years ago, just after arriving in Sydney from Cairo, the then Grand Mufti
of Australia was interviewed by a reporter from the Australian Jewish News.
The Mufti stated that the moment Australia becomes 51% Moslem, it will be a
Moslem country. The reporter asked him about the other 49% and he replied
that they would �convert or leave�.

Just coming from the other muslim thread, I will say this... IF this happens, I will join extermination crusade with you guys. My thoughts on the Grand Mufti is this: If this clown really thinks that he can force 49% of a country to convert or leave he needs to pull his head out of Muhammad's Arse. Apparently the Mufti has never watched Chrocodile Dundee.

God Bless Paul Hogan.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by farhyde]

Despite the blatherings, nothing indicates that this Hizb group is representative of all muslims. I have know a few muslims, I don't recall any of them being interested in estabishing a theocratic dictatorship in the middle east. They all spoke english, listened to modern music, watched very modern tv and ate english food. They'd also say their prayers when they were supposed to and such. IOW, they were nicely assimilated. I don't know what the situation is in Britain, but if the public over there isn't receptive to muslims, well, muslims aren't going to assimilate. As far as groups like Hizb that calll for the re-establishment of the caliphate, or others that call for violent jihad against the west, cath 'em, try 'em, and then either lock 'em up or deport them. Violence is unnacceptable. That goes for you to, and making an entire ethnicity out to be monsters will only incite more violence. Its already started over in the US, except that Sikhs are being attacked, becuase they 'look' muslim. If I were a sikh, I think i'd feel pretty stupid not cutting my hair, ever, but I sure as heck wouldn't cut it if people were willing to fight me over it.

�Radical Muslims have at times treated nonradicals as one large sleeper cell that can be activated by summons to the full practice of their religion. This is illustrated by a chilling story from the Ottoman Empire of the late nineteenth century:

�Then one night, my husband came home and told me that the padisha had sent word that we were to kill all the Christians in our village, and that we would have to kill our neighbors. I was very angry, and told him that I did not care who gave such orders, they were wrong. These neighbors had always been kind to us, and if he dared to kill them Allah would pay us out. I tried all I could to stop him, but he killed them � killed them with his own hand.�

�In this light, the number of terrorists and their sympathizers is likely to grow beyond Pipes� 100 to 150 million. In a very real sense this group is what the less militant majority considers to be the conscience of the umma. They are the people who actually dare to do what Alla said to do, whatever the cost.� (Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions About the World�s Fastest-Growing Faith, by Robert Spencer)

I find it terribly ironic all this paranoid rubbish about Islam wanting to take over and dominate the world, while we march into their countries and take them over. We call it establishing democracy, they call it being invaded. I call it Faux Pas.

actually if you understand islams end time view you will see that islam teaches that the WHOLE world will be ISLAMIC before JUDGEMENT DAY. now thats not just one or two "false prophets" or "fundementalits twisting the koran" THAT IS IN THE KORAN PLAN AS DAY!

ironically the "christians" in the white house are into dominonism(thats not some kinky sex thing!)..which is NOT in the gospels and is UNBIBLICAL...guess what they believe?? similar to the fundementalists muslims = christians will take over the world, USA is Israel now, christians will infultrate ALL areas of modern life and subject the world to the gospels BEFORE jesus comes back...even to "make" him come back.

research it you'd be SUPRISED!

They won't research it. They'll just continue to attack me and others as ignorant, while we, the "ignorant" ones, are the only ones who've bothered to learn about what Islam teaches.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Despite the blatherings, nothing indicates that this Hizb group is representative of all muslims. I have know a few muslims, I don't recall any of them being interested in estabishing a theocratic dictatorship in the middle east. They all spoke english, listened to modern music, watched very modern tv and ate english food. They'd also say their prayers when they were supposed to and such. IOW, they were nicely assimilated. I don't know what the situation is in Britain, but if the public over there isn't receptive to muslims, well, muslims aren't going to assimilate. As far as groups like Hizb that calll for the re-establishment of the caliphate, or others that call for violent jihad against the west, cath 'em, try 'em, and then either lock 'em up or deport them. Violence is unnacceptable. That goes for you to, and making an entire ethnicity out to be monsters will only incite more violence. Its already started over in the US, except that Sikhs are being attacked, becuase they 'look' muslim. If I were a sikh, I think i'd feel pretty stupid not cutting my hair, ever, but I sure as heck wouldn't cut it if people were willing to fight me over it.

I'm not sure how many times I'm going to have to say this before people will start to listen. The issue is not Muslims as individuals. The issue is what their scriptures say, and their scriptures say that Islam is the only religion on earth that has a right to exist, and Muslims have the right to kill, subdue, or forcibly convert non-believers in order to achieve that goal.

The Muslims you all keep telling me about are not really Muslims at all according to Islamic law, and that's a fact. Islamic law, based on the Qur'an--the Word of God--and the Sunna--the example of God's apostle-- states that dislike of any of Allah's revelations means you've turned your back to Allah.

That is the conclusion I have reached after studying the Qur'an and the Sunna, and it is no surprise to me that Islamic law (shari'a) agrees.

Don't get me wrong: I'm glad most Muslims are bad Muslims. And, despite the hysterical rantings of the clueless on this forum, I'm not out to label Muslims a bunch of blood-thirsty monsters.

But Muhammad was a blood-thirsty monster, so it is no surprise that Islam has blood-thirsty tendencies. What are we to do about this? Nothing? Just continue to pretend that the fundamentalists have no divine claim to murder us, even though their scriptures say otherwise?

Why not just come right out and beg them to kill you? Because if we don't stop the Islamic movement here in America, if not you or I, our children and children's children will become dhimmis. All you have to do is follow the money behind the mosques and the Islamic centers in our universities, and you see what I'm getting at. They're all funded by the Wahhabi Saudis, and if they're not stopped we're going to start having problems like France and Holland are having with Muslim fundamentalists killing people who denounce Islam and setting synagogues on fire and vandalizing Jewish cemetaries.

And that's just the beginning.

Hmmm nobody says anything...

I hope you finally give it up...You have'nt stopped scince this morning blasphamy...What are you anyways IBN iblis from Dar waar???? have you suffered some traumatic event as a child at school bullied that's it!! I think I figured where your hate is coming from....I must say you are well read in the Quran...why bother if it's not for you...hounestly I wonder what is!!!
Give it a break..

Yes, and people in the middle east dont like the fact that Christianity is rearing its ugly head into their culture and converting their children, at the sametime setting up starbucks and raping their land for oil. Oh, wait, what was your point? Society changes, get over it.

Uhhh, excuse me, but Christianity is "over there" in Islam's FACE.

What else do you expect them to do--lay down and let us walk over them?

They didn't attack us on 911 without our Gummint's total complicity, and we all know that.

That was a staged event, like other staged events intended to provoke the Muslims to outrage, defiance and retribution.

What else would you expect them to do except organize for their own survival?

If we were minding our own business, we wouldn't have this problem.

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFictionchristians will take over the world, USA is Israel now, christians will infultrate ALL areas of modern life and subject the world to the gospels BEFORE jesus comes back...even to "make" him come back.

umm no, the bible says christians will be oppressed, killed, and israel will be forced to do as the anti-christ dictates.

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
Uhhh, excuse me, but Christianity is "over there" in Islam's FACE.

OK, so why did they attack us in 1993? Were we 'in their face' then?

What about the Khobar Towers in 1996? Civilians in Saudi Arabia? 'In their face'?

The African Embassy Bombings? What was the justification for that?

USS Cole?

You pretty much kill any credibility you have by saying 9-11 was staged. Yeah, it was staged. By al Qaeda.

Wisen up.

[edit on 12-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]

Originally posted by Horus_Re
I think I figured where your hate is coming from....I must say you are well read in the Quran...why bother if it's not for you...hounestly I wonder what is!!!

Sun Tzu said: One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.

That's why.

The enemy claims a mandate from god, and whaddya know? They don't lie.

[edit on 12-11-2004 by Ibn Iblis]

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Yes, and people in the middle east dont like the fact that Christianity is rearing its ugly head into their culture and converting their children, at the sametime setting up starbucks and raping their land for oil. Oh, wait, what was your point? Society changes, get over it.

Yeah, great. Oil. I don't know what you've got in your pipe, but round here in reality gas prices are up like 60% since the Iraq war started.

And we're not a Christian nation. Our troops are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, among others.