What is the last lie of the "devil"?

I pose this question as much from a metaphysical and psycho-spiritual perspective, as I do a theological one so Mods please don't move this thread to Theology and Religion, where the question would be given a more.. narrow treatment in purely Religious and Theological terms, probably with scriptural quotes and pages from the Bible flying around in a maelstrom of interpretations and strict doctrinal beliefs, which really doesn't get us all the way there, because there are Metaphysical and Psychological implications at play here, and they too deserve to see the light of day, imho.

What is the last lie of the "devil"?

If the devil is the "father of lies" then what's his last lie and can he be beat, if he even exists?

It has been said that

"the finest trick of the devil is to persuade you that he does not exist"
~ Charles Baudelaire

Perhaps one step further might be appropriate here, meaning to say that it's to persuade US that he does indeed exist, or in other words, becoming "relevant" somehow or in some way, and thus able to impinge upon the consciousness of man, making "hell" possible, NOT as an inherent probability or likelihood (of the nature of the true life as it is and is intended to be and to become), which it isn't and cannot be, since it offers nothing of value or a formative consequence (giving God (of love) the final victory in the last laugh at the devil's expense) but instead, simply, if such a thing were possible the possibility of a human certainty or "truth" (that's the last lie) by which to draw us in, individually and collectively, into a false belief (lies upon lies), and a state of complete ignorance as to our TRUE condition as children of a loving God. [hmph sounds like the American lamestream media!]

Jealousy. Hatred. If anything that's all I can see as far as the center and source of evil goes. The antithesis of love, because God as love doesn't "play both sides of the fence". If so then it becomes an important issue of relevancy and consequence, made formative of something worthwhile and of value, once recognized and understood in the light of truth, and reality (as it really is).

So what happens if we reject that lie (that the devil definitely exists, with absolute certainty) and take on full and complete responsibility for our OWN centers and sources of jealousy and hatred?

Where is thy sting and power oh evil one then, I ask..? (with a growing, knowing, smile).

Doesn't it dissolve in joyful laughter and celebration as God gets the last laugh, a hearty belly laugh at the devil's expense while sharing everything of value and the whole of all creation with us as his chosen sons and daughters..?

I've spent a lot of time thinking this one through, or trying to, but it's also good to put it to the test and share my reality mapping on this with the larger ATS community. Thanks in advance for reading, God I hope it helps ("be not afraid" says God with a smile).

Because when we reach the end of the lies, we come into the truth and the life and the reality as it is and what it was always meant to be, and there's no devil there in that domain. None. Nada. Zilch.

At that final turning point, he's either been left behind or completely ignored, as if "he" or "it" never existed in the first place. And isn't that to "pass into the kingdom of heaven"? So that's really the "space" or domain of real and true and authentic possibility I'm REALLY interested in, on the other side of the truth, of the last lie of the devil.


Best Regards, ... (no that wasn't an evil laugh, but a laugh at evil itself, for it's absurdity, as the darkness falls away in favor of light, life, peace and real and authentic happiness or true life. There's no lie there, is there? Where did it go?

Maybe the devil's final truth, after the last lie, is that he never really existed in the first place, but that we had fallen victim to the folly of giving evil and the devil "life" simply through belief and fear and intimidation (by the CHURCH of all things and organizations, no less!).

Trust me on this one because to a degree I've kind of been there done that got the t-shirt as they say, and in the final analysis, it's absurd! I was projecting and giving power to something that I shouldn't have and needn't, (as child of God) and boy did it drive me to my knees and a little insane on more than well, about four separate occasions, Call it "satanic attack" if you will, my family doctor himself did when I asked him about it afterwards (he was a Christian though, said I was sandwiched between two crosses as a double PK preachers kid with the church on BOTH sides of me and thus open to attack by evil forces..lol), so I've been to the wall and UP IT over these issues and ideas, and I guess the reason I'm making this thread is because nothing really scares me any more.

I once told my mother, a very wise and powerful healing helper in the world that I felt my calling was to somehow "process Satan" en mass. "Sounds dangerous" she said. She was right, it was, but I made it through you see, by the Grace and the Power of God who does appear to make use of evil, in life, to a degree, to reveal his greater glory, by contrast, and it IS rather amuzing now, looking back in hindsight.

Good thing I'm not here on ATS posting a schizophrenic diatribe outlining precisely how we've already been trapped without escape by the very matrix of reality itself! LOL

God gave me too big of a brain (large cranium) to BE "crushed" in the process, and he knew in advance that I would find my way somehow.

I'm at peace with this stuff now, moving past the apparent duality like some sort of rite of passage. Maybe I can be of service, but for the love of God, might "we" become more well acquainted with the truth that sets us free and not the lie that snares us.

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


That he is going to submit
a balanced budget!!

That pic there was just to trip you out, for fun. Please forgive me.

Originally posted by rangersdad
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

That he is going to submit
a balanced budget!!

GOOD one!

If that were TRUE, then he WOULD be "God", you know whoever submits a balanced budged metaphysically right across the entire spectrum of all being and becoming.

A good "distinguishing" - ah you caught him out the banker devil - good for you rangersdad, good for you.

To play "Devil's advocate" as it were, and perhaps to paraphrase Beaudelaire somewhat:
The greatest trick Anyone ever played was to convince us that god was real.
Just a counterpunch.

Originally posted by Jonjonj
To play "Devil's advocate" as it were, and perhaps to paraphrase Beaudelaire somewhat:
The greatest trick Anyone ever played was to convince us that god was real.
Just a counterpunch.

"Counterpunch", from what direction? I don't understand. If God isn't "real" then the devil sure can't be real. There again, we become responsible and "at cause" only the whole cosmological framework is discarded (by most atheist accounts) in favor of thinking of the human being including our own selves as an "it" in an impersonal and meaningless absurdity, without "justice" without purpose or aim (even though we find ourselves here, already included), so that's another line of reasoning, but we can't believe "in" nothing at all or that life is without purpose and therefore meaning or significance.. Anyway, who or what precisely is "God"?

"God cannot be explained, He cannot be argued about, He cannot be theorized, nor can He be discussed and understood. God can only be lived..

To understand the infinite, eternal Reality is not the GOAL of individualized beings in the Illusion of Creation, because the Reality can never be understood; it is to be realized by conscious experience.

Therefore, the GOAL is to realize the Reality and attain the "I am of God" state in human form."

~ Meher Baba

I don't know I just figured it best to get the damn devil question out of the way, first, didn't think it best to start out by attacking God while playing the role of the "devil's advocate"... that's pretty FUNNY! And kind of sad.. don't you think? That that's the default position. In that case, what are you to DO if the devil does exist, or would you care just so long as you're given the chance to "get" God..? You know, turn the tables..

The human heart is a very strange and funny thing, imho. It turns on the worst and most subtle edge sometimes. Damn I wish we were into the New Age already when all this nonsense becomes our living experience, not unlike children at play.

Best Regards,

NAM

In the Hebrew Scriptures, "God" is said to be the source of all light and all darkness.
Basically, God is the Devil and the Devil is God. Two sides of the same coin.



I don't think the last words will be a lie at all, but instead will be a revelation.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Jonjonj
To play "Devil's advocate" as it were, and perhaps to paraphrase Beaudelaire somewhat:
The greatest trick Anyone ever played was to convince us that god was real.
Just a counterpunch.

"Counterpunch", from what direction? I don't understand. If God isn't "real" then the devil sure can't be real. There again, we become responsible and "at cause" only the whole cosmological framework is discarded (by most atheist accounts) in favor of thinking of the human being including our own selves as an "it" in an impersonal and meaningless absurdity, without "justice" without purpose or aim (even though we find ourselves here, already included), so that's another line of reasoning, but we can't believe "in" nothing at all or that life is without purpose and therefore meaning or significance.. Anyway, who or what precisely is "God"?

"God cannot be explained, He cannot be argued about, He cannot be theorized, nor can He be discussed and understood. God can only be lived..

To understand the infinite, eternal Reality is not the GOAL of individualized beings in the Illusion of Creation, because the Reality can never be understood; it is to be realized by conscious experience.

Therefore, the GOAL is to realize the Reality and attain the "I am of God" state in human form."

~ Meher Baba

I don't know I just figured it best to get the damn devil question out of the way, first, didn't think it best to start out by attacking God while playing the role of the "devil's advocate"... that's pretty FUNNY! And kind of sad.. don't you think? That that's the default position. In that case, what are you to DO if the devil does exist, or would you care just so long as you're given the chance to "get" God..? You know, turn the tables..

The human heart is a very strange and funny thing, imho. It turns on the worst and most subtle edge sometimes. Damn I wish we were into the New Age already when all this nonsense becomes our living experience, not unlike children at play.

Best Regards,

NAM

edit on 12-8-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Perhaps the irony was lost in translation, I meant no offence of course. However you did use the "devil" as your precept, so to then move on to other pseudo/quasi religious ideas seems to me to be rather evasive. You should re-read what I posted and remove what you feel to be my motives and see the absolute, pure irony of what I said. Be well.
I also apologise for not completely understanding this passage : "Counterpunch", from what direction? I don't understand. If God isn't "real" then the devil sure can't be real. There again, we become responsible and "at cause" only the whole cosmological framework is discarded (by most atheist accounts) in favor of thinking of the human being including our own selves as an "it" in an impersonal and meaningless absurdity, without "justice" without purpose or aim (even though we find ourselves here, already included), so that's another line of reasoning, but we can't believe "in" nothing at all or that life is without purpose and therefore meaning or significance.. Anyway, who or what precisely is "God"?

reply to post by Jonjonj

It's hard to describe but I intuit a great joke in it all one way or the other, completely independent of any sort of external proof of the existence of God, who even if "he" exists doesn't exist as a function of belief but does so no matter what we might believe or not or based on whatever conception the human being might have, so that aspect is irrelevant. It's not a God dependent argument but I see what you mean, bringing up even the mere word or hint of a "devil" of some sort.

I'll bet God would even be willing to disappear altogether if it meant no more fear of a devil for us, the byproduct of the creative process as children of that first/last cause, leaving us with what might be thought of as an inheritance prepared for us from the beginning of time that we did not work for or the ultimate free lunch, but with no devil to worry about.

Your way might work too, I'm totally open to that and any idea, sorry I didn't mean to sound cranky or offended. With the manner of many atheists around here it's easy to get a little testy and maybe jump the gun a bit reactively and if I did that I apologize.

Also in my experience all non-God atheists viewpoints for the most part seem to subscribe automatically to a "materialist monism" which yes, reduces the human being to a "thing" or an it, within a purposeless, meaningless absurdity and one that ends with a grave insult.

Best Regards,

NAM

P.S. No more thread killing posts from me today or much of tomorrow, so have at it folks!

Could be important.. ?

Originally posted by Garkiniss

Two sides of the same coin.

Let's hope so.. but I'm not so sure that captures it or describes the truth, so that might be the last lie right there maybe...

Not a last lie but the truth...it has all been one big lie.

We were never here we never even existed.

This has just been a simulation.

I'm not sure if the Devil lies at all.

What if he deceives by only telling the truth?

That's how a good politician operates...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Garkiniss

Two sides of the same coin.

Let's hope so.. but I'm not so sure that captures it or describes the truth, so that might be the last lie right there maybe...

There is of course one more possibility: We were never lied to, nor even spoken to, thought about or even conceived of. And the only problem we have had is that we simply haven't believed we have been capable of looking after ourselves.
Be well.

reply to post by NuclearPaul


I agree, if you're expected to lie then you can deceive by telling the truth which will then be thought to be a lie.

Satan is now trying to deceive people by telling them Jesus is not returning, but In THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST WAKE UP. What ever happened to the fear of God like our ancestors, that's why the world is in the shape that it is now because people have forgotten the beginning of wisdom which is the fear of God.

Hmm...devil father of lies.

What if the last lie was "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

The biblical devil is not (according to the mythos) going to be obvious, no horns and red skin. He will be assumed quite the opposite, a holy man, a prophet, etc.

What if Jesus was the devil, and therefore by his seemingly peaceful teachings, caused most to eventually turn from the word of god (torah), cause wars, allow corruption (due to endless forgivness), etc.

I know even suggesting such a thing drives the fundys bonkers and has them divebomb their head into the nearest sand dune, but the clever and intellects can have a very good discussion about this.

Also, what if Gandalf was actually prepping middle earth for a takeover due to weakening them by having them rely on supermen over the strength of regular men...hmmmmm
(both are equal conversations in my mind)

Originally posted by 2WitnessesArrived
Satan is now trying to deceive people by telling them Jesus is not returning, but In THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST WAKE UP. What ever happened to the fear of God like our ancestors, that's why the world is in the shape that it is now because people have forgotten the beginning of wisdom which is the fear of God.

Surely fear can only lead to ignorance. If I fear a snake, will I learn about it? No, I will probably kill it. If I fear the world, will I know its realms? I fear I will only know its boundaries. Fear is not a great motivator, and no one, god nor man, should sow fear. Show me light, not darkness. Show me truth, reveal secrets and let nothing be hidden. Then and only then should I have the faith to accept the fact that some things take time to learn

Originally posted by 2WitnessesArrived
Satan is now trying to deceive people by telling them Jesus is not returning, but In THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST WAKE UP. What ever happened to the fear of God like our ancestors, that's why the world is in the shape that it is now because people have forgotten the beginning of wisdom which is the fear of God.

If I have to fear something, I don't respect it.
I may fear the bully, that doesn't mean I respect him as a person..frankly, I will root for anyone that puts a bullet in his head.

If God requires fear, then he is simply a bully, and I will be on the sidelines cheering on something to remove that jerk.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Easy, Satan will never profess Jesus Christ coming in the flesh and dying on cross for the sins of many.