"Large ring found in Solar system" - (Apollo 8)

Originally posted by covertpanther
Hmm.. it would seem that someone 'cleaned' this picture up, and added the ring thingy?

If that is the original, then we can definitely call HOAX on this one. Thank you wmd!

It's a low resolution version so detail is lost in that and we need the higher resolution version.

The original photo linked here (which is cited in the OP link) is also from a NASA site in higher resolution so I don't know why you think NASA would put a hoax on their own site.

history.nasa.gov...
history.nasa.gov...


It's obviously a reflection of some sort...exactly what is being reflected I don't know but there are some obvious logical alternatives:

Light inside the spacecraft reflected off the window with distortion.
Lens flare (Often with lens flare the source is visible within the image...though not always. In some cases the source of lens flare can be a bright light outside the field of vision of the lens).
Some combination of the above.

From that list you can observe the sequential images taken before and after that one, and the reflection doesn't appear in either one. The camera position is a little different in the other two, which could explain why the reflection doesn't appear in all 3, or if it was a control panel light reflection, the light may only be on in the shots where we see its reflection.

For example, here's an image taken earlier in the mission.

history.nasa.gov...


Note the bright light source at the bottom, and several reflections of that light source above it. If you aimed the camera a little higher, you might still see the reflections without seeing the light source. It's a little hard to tell exactly what it's reflecting from but obviously it's not shaped anything like a pentagon, even though the reflections have a pentagonal shapes. The point of course is the shape of the reflection is not necessarily indicative of the shape of the reflection source, because of distortion, etc.

werent these pictures taken from inside the craft with a hand held camera?

I think the object is the lense of the camera reflecting on the window.

Also the light source of the object seems to be coming from above from what is probably an interior overhead light of the capsule. The earth has its light source coming from the left side, or in other words the sun is to the left of both the craft and the object, but since the object is inside the craft, the source of light is coming from above the object while its left side is shielded since its within the capsule.


I may be wrong. But Thats what I think.

Originally posted by covertpanther

Originally posted by wmd_2008

The original picture

www.lpi.usra.edu...

Hmm.. it would seem that someone 'cleaned' this picture up, and added the ring thingy?

If that is the original, then we can definitely call HOAX on this one. Thank you wmd!

Its just a poor quality scan - you can find much better quality ones at the Apollo Flight Journal

history.nasa.gov...

Where you can see that the photographs either side of this one do not show the ring feature, and as these photographs all show the same weather patterns an land masses they must have been taken at the same time.

Different high quality scans can be found at the Gateway to Astronaut Photography of Earth:

eol.jsc.nasa.gov... &ID=AS08-14-2527

It's difficult to tell what the feature is, but as someone pointed out the lighting on the ring' is clearly inconsistent with the lighting outside, and a space ship supposedly of that size would have been very obviously visible from Earth.

Interestingly, if you search for the photo number you get a disclose TV link:

www.disclose.tv...

which shows what must obviously be a much smaller version of the same space station in a Gemini XI photograph

My personal view is that it is the reflected lens of the camera itself.

I was thinking that the object in the picture could also be part of the Apollo 8 suit. Namely the O2 inlet or O2 outlet, or the electrical connector.




In the apollo 8 capsule the window would have been above the astronaut so he would have had to lean back to take the picture. This would give a pretty close position of his suits inlet connectors relative to where the object is in the picture.

The connectors are slightly to the side, right where the object appears relative to the center of the picture.

The question is if they were ever /could be, disconnected during the flight, maybe to get more wiggle room take the picture....


EDIT:
We know anders had the color camera since his was the famous picture of the time magazine cover and the others took black and whites ( this is a color photo), he was the LMP and was seated on the right.

Based on that and the fact that his suits inlets are on his right hand side, we can argue that placing the camera above him to point out the window would have placed his suits inlets in the perfect position to appear exactly where this object does in the picture. As we know the pilots sat facing he front of the cone of the capsule with the window overhead. William Anders (LMP) would have had to lean over to the left. Since the images are probably reversed then this would explain why the object does not appear on the right of the picture relative to the center.

As further support to it being internal to the spacecraft, if you look carefully at the photograph you can see flared light from Earth shining vertically up and down the window from it. That is what I think is the vertical stripe in the object is.

Why does it not appear in the photographs either side of AS08-14-2527? The lens is angled differently, and Earth appears in different parts of the photographs in these other ones.

reply to post by onebigmonkey


ha! According to my computer the history.nasa.gov site is "untrusted" lol....

reply to post by covertpanther


It looks like end of a camera lens reflected in the window to me. It would be remarkable if none of the photos taken through the window had any interior reflections even if the capsule was kept dark.

Anyway, before another cause is assigned, reflections are very likely the cause of stray images in windows. We must eliminate the most likely causes of faint images before moving on to anything external to the capsule.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by covertpanther

 

Those pictures are crude fakes created by someone so ignorant of astronomy (and even of the obvious) that he did not realise that the sun should be illuminating the ring on the same side as it illuminates the Earth, Moon, etc. Basic fail.

You are assuming an artificial object like a space station wouldn't have its own source of illumination. I mean, why would a space station have electric lights? Astronauts always operate in the dark.

First thing that comes to mind for me is a reflection from the window the photo was taken through.

It looks like deep space 9 to me! Haha. It would be awesome if there were an alien ring satalite base hiding behind the moon though!

Originally posted by geobro
good find i cant wait for the experts here to answer this one away

dodgy cameras etc etc

You are inferring that those who explain things away are wrong, more or less. What you should be concerned about is the fact that no source image was offered. For all you know this could be doctored, added to the image itself. Yet you immediately claim faith in the image, and like I said, THAT is the problem. Not those who attempt to describe what they are seeing. And in the vast majority of "anomalous" images there is a logical explanation. The logical explanation is more often than not going to be the "terrestrial" explanation, as opposed to the extraterrestrial one.

It also appears in history.nasa.gov... at the bottom of the image.

I'll go with an internal reflection of some sort. The ghostly, out of focus appearance supports this. If it were a real physical object, it would be in focus like the Earth, and lit from the same side as the Earth

Originally posted by tadaman
I was thinking that the object in the picture could also be part of the Apollo 8 suit. Namely the O2 inlet or O2 outlet, or the electrical connector.

In the apollo 8 capsule the window would have been above the astronaut so he would have had to lean back to take the picture. This would give a pretty close position of his suits inlet connectors relative to where the object is in the picture.

The connectors are slightly to the side, right where the object appears relative to the center of the picture.

The question is if they were ever /could be, disconnected during the flight, maybe to get more wiggle room take the picture....


EDIT:
We know anders had the color camera since his was the famous picture of the time magazine cover and the others took black and whites ( this is a color photo), he was the LMP and was seated on the right.

Based on that and the fact that his suits inlets are on his right hand side, we can argue that placing the camera above him to point out the window would have placed his suits inlets in the perfect position to appear exactly where this object does in the picture. As we know the pilots sat facing he front of the cone of the capsule with the window overhead. William Anders (LMP) would have had to lean over to the left. Since the images are probably reversed then this would explain why the object does not appear on the right of the picture relative to the center.

edit on 13-8-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

I can see what you're saying, but I'm pretty confident that the full flight suits weren't worn all the time - they were bulky and cumbersome and not designed to be worn inside except during lift off (possibly also during the Trans Earth Injection burn). If you search for the Apollo 8 16mm footage you can see the crews wearing much lighter gear.

Also the use of colour film not assigned to a specific person. Photographs would be taken by whoever was best placed to take it using the film that was best suited for the purpose.

If you look at the Earth in the photograph, the continents are the correct way round, so it has not been reversed.

umm how about the reflection of the camera taking the picture?

reply to post by onebigmonkey


true, but Anders took most of the pictures because the two others took turns either sleeping or piloting the craft when most of the pictures were taken.

I had allot more in that post I just erased because, well, it was OD.

The suits were designed with NO EVA in mind and so werent as bulky as other suits. Also Anders was in the right hand seat and would have had to lean over the center seat to take the picture out the window overhead. Considering that this film made the developed pictures "flipped" it would place his outlets and inlets in the right spot slightly off center of the picture.


I dont know though. It could be anything.

Originally posted by tadaman
werent these pictures taken from inside the craft with a hand held camera?

I think the object is the lense of the camera reflecting on the window.

Also the light source of the object seems to be coming from above from what is probably an interior overhead light of the capsule. The earth has its light source coming from the left side, or in other words the sun is to the left of both the craft and the object, but since the object is inside the craft, the source of light is coming from above the object while its left side is shielded since its within the capsule.


I may be wrong. But Thats what I think.

edit on 13-8-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

Bingo!

You nailed it brother

reply to post by covertpanther


Honestly, my best guess would be some reflection off glass on the satellite or spacecraft from which the image was taken. I haven't ever seen any discussion of this elsewhere, and I have seen a LOT of "weird" discussion on various space photographs. Without a lot of research, that seems the most likely possibility.

Just wondering if that is a reflection of the Earth on the Apollo 8 window...

Whooops... see someone already thought of that lol.

Is that a picture of a Quasi-satellite? Probably just a reflection though.

Come on ... its obviously Vulcan