Best Countries to Move to?

www.businessweek.com...

The U.S., the only nation in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development that taxes citizens wherever they reside, is searching for tax cheats in offshore centers, including Switzerland, as the government tries to curb the budget deficit. Shunned by Swiss and German banks and facing tougher asset-disclosure rules under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, more of the estimated 6 million Americans living overseas are weighing the cost of holding a U.S. passport.

Expatriates giving up their nationality at U.S. embassies climbed to 1,131 in the three months through June from 189 in the year-earlier period, according to Federal Register figures published today. That brought the first-half total to 1,810 compared with 235 for the whole of 2008.

“The United States wishes to ensure that all income earned worldwide by U.S. taxpayers on accounts held abroad can be taxed by the United States,” the Swiss government said on April 10.

“With increased U.S. tax reporting, U.S. accounting costs alone are around $2,000 per year for a U.S. citizen residing abroad,” the tax lawyer said. “Adding factors, such as difficulty in finding a bank to accept a U.S. citizen as a client, it is difficult to justify keeping the U.S. citizenship for those who reside permanently abroad.”

You can run from the tax man but you will just end up tired while you are paying.

reply to post by crazyewok

Originally posted by crazyewok
Also germanys great, got a strong economy with strong manufactureing industry and its pretty good debt wise as its the lender rather than the borrower.

I don't understand why you would list being "the lender rather than the borrower" as a good thing for our country.
For most of us here its one of the worst aspects of our current economic policies.
Lending money we will probably never see again to people who mostly hate us... great idea.

I totally agree with the rest of your post though.

I'd love to see a loose trade union / alliance of the "Nordic" countries (including our british neighbours) to emerge from the ruins of this pathetic €uropean Union.
Culturally we have much more in common than with the southern countries of europe IMO.

On Topic:
OP, Go North!

Dare I say...............
If you're a native English speak and you want to make a ton of cash without much effort, China would be your best bet, cheap (if you live a 'local' life), good transportation in the cities, CHEAP rent, just make sure you move to a tier 1 or 2 city.
You could get a position here 35, 40 USD an hour, especially if you're an American, the money Chinese pay for learning English is insane.

You can't just move to a Scandinavian country and start working, you would need a permit. I have not analyzed this in depth but I have heard real people's stories about moving there from the US and being unable to work. I have also heard stories about incredibly corrupt authorities in Costa Rica- I would never consider moving there.
There are perhaps millions of people who wish they were in your place. Maybe you're just unhappy with your current situation and think that moving will change that, but sometimes it's not the system, it's you.
Consider moving to a different state/city in the US, if you really believe that your environment is "toxic".

If you can live with high taxes then welcome to the Scandinavia, your life will change dramatically the day you step on this part of the world.

How you take it will be depends on you, but assuring that you and your family will live in peace.

I live in Norway.

reply to post by tyfon

Norway is rather expensive!

Income as pick'n'packer (37.5 hours/week, E.B.T $24 per hour, 36%tax) -> $52000 a year (32000 left after tax)

Dwelling unit, 25 m² inclusive energy and internet, $1300
Bottle of vodka, $50
Gallon of gas, $9
A glass (4 cl) of beer at the local pub, $13
Cup of Coffee at restaurant $5
Club Sandwich at restaurant $27
Sliced bacon (3.5 oz), $6
A cheap bread, $4
A can of Guinness (50 cl), $10
A can of cheap tasteless beer (35 cl), $4
Gouda cheese (35 oz), $20
Grinded coffee, (8.8 oz), $5
20 Marlboro, $17
One green apple, $2
Strawberry Jam (28 Oz), $7
Milk (1/3 gallon), $3
Coca Cola (0.40 gallon), $5
Taking the bus downtown (two miles), $6
Taking the train 75 Miles, $45
One medium dental filling, $154
ACL-surgery‎ for non-Norwegian citizen, from $6500
Fine for drinking alcohol outside the pub, $500
Fine for public disturbance $1500

Originally posted by tyfon
reply to post by teachtaire

 

Hi,

I live in Norway.
The minimum wage is quite high, but there are a lot of taxes. You get something else in return than war though.
Murders are scarce and the police don't carry guns. They are stored sealed in the trunk, and they need to radio HQ for permission to use them.

The social atmosphere is very liberal.There are cases of racism and we had the terrorist two years ago. However it's not nearly on the scale of the US for example.

Almost everyone speak English to some degree, most good. This is a mandatory language that is thought from the age of 10.

The social mobility is quite low, but there is a massive government apparatus and workers union. Hopefully the new government will rectify some of this. Despite this abundance of bureaucracy, the state has about $500 billion in a sovereign fun and keeps pumping into it due to the oil.

The social security net is very expansive. You can't really go poor here.
Medical expenses are usually limited to about $150 a year in deductibles, after that it's completely free.

The average wage is about $80000 of which you would need to pay about $25000 in taxes.
Some items like gas and alcohol are taxed more than the usual 25% VAT.

But everyone enjoy 100% paid sick leave, 5 weeks vacation + numerous other holidays, security if you become disabled or unable to work.
If you give birth, the mother and father have 10 months combined 100% paid leave to take care of the newborn.

Housing prices vary depending on where you want to live.
A 100 square meter apartment could cost anything from $1.000.000 to $150.000 depending on location.

All in all. Life is quite good here. It's not perfect. A lot of things can change for the better, but I feel that we are better off than quite a few others.

And if we manage to get a change in government this autumn the worker immigration laws will probably be relaxed.

I have been in Norway for quite some time. So what is going to happen as more and more young
people are choosing to just live off the "system" and not work?

Norway USED to be known for quality. The guys on the factory floor who are mostly from Sweden
want to follow the rules, but the upper level Norwegian management has a "get it out the door"
mentality.

Norway has beautiful weather and scenery. I am sorely disappointed at the attitudes I see here.

I would not live here and I am more than ready to leave as soon as my work allows.

Now that Norway is off the list I will tell you the hands down best place to live I have found:

MOLDOVA

Safe, cheap, great food, beautiful women, fantastic wine, cheap vodka, short hop to anywhere in Europe.

3 year CD pays 12% interest paid monthly.

reply to post by teachtaire


flipflop don's his thinking cap and frowns, removes it and a lot of head scratching takes place before he reinstates his cap... after a lot of if's and's and but's the conclusion is, there are none available, whatever country you choose and for one reason or another, none are better than where you are, all countries ecomomies are on the decline, and getting worse. overpopulation has put most of the worlds countries under stress, causing cutbacks on every level.. employment is a threatened species wherever you go.... If there was such an oasis I think we would all be going your way.....

reply to post by luciddream


How does one go about moving there as I am interested also.

Gs

reply to post by Rodinus


I have been to a number of places in northen France. And although paris is ok I have not been impressed with the rest o it. My biggest complaint is the toliet and sanitation faclitys. Public Toliets in France are to be frank 3rd world. Hell in one village I went too had a open sewer system The village stank like crap and the people there did not seem to even care like it was normal. If a rich 1st world country cant get its hygenine up to 1st world standard I dont want to live there. And Spain is just as bad too.

I find a countrys toliet facilitys tell alot about a country

You should also be aware that you can't just "move" to most other countries unless 1. You have an in-demand skill set (computer programmer, physical therapist etc), 2. Have enough money to be self supporting (i.e. adequate retirement income) 3. You are starting a business based in that country 4. You are marrying someone in that country. 5. Some countries have age restrictions for immigrants.

Even Mexico won't take Americans and have a long list of restrictions. If you plan to live there you must return to the States every six months to renew your Visa. And if you are able to get permanent resident status or citizenship (highly unlikely) you still can't vote or truly own your property.

Good luck!

Originally posted by crazyewok
reply to post by Rodinus

 

I have been to a number of places in northen France. And although paris is ok I have not been impressed with the rest o it. My biggest complaint is the toliet and sanitation faclitys. Public Toliets in France are to be frank 3rd world. Hell in one village I went too had a open sewer system

The village stank like crap and the people there did not seem to even care like it was normal. If a rich 1st world country cant get its hygenine up to 1st world standard I dont want to live there. And Spain is just as bad too.

I find a countrys toliet facilitys tell alot about a country

edit on 10-8-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Living over here for the past 25 years, i must admit, 25 years ago there were still parts of France (especially the far North near Lille that happened to be suffering from extreme poverty and sadly they still are now! (It is very rare to come across the public open air latrines that existed 20 to 25 years ago).

However, you would be surprised if you were to come across again, to notice that France has now extremely high public health standards...(with the odd exception of course), like most other countries too!) i would love to know what the name of the village was where you stayed?

I am sure that there are back of the woods villages too where you live and other people too where the villagers do not care either... but you know what it is like trying to change old ways of thinking?

Maybe it was also not that the villagers couldn't care but just couldn't afford to do anything about it at the time and had given up hoping? (Some of the Mayors over here can be quite corrupt (like a lot of other politicians all over the world and their personal benefit goes before the peoples!!)

Extra little tidbit : France has probably the best public health care system in the world... practically free for everyone (or you are reimbursed by the social security and mutual)

You also don't need to get married or have a job straight away when you arrive, as long as your travel documents and ID are up to date, and free courses in the French language are offered to all in order to help them find a job, get through the administration etc etc...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Whoah!

2 things:
Asylum isn't for criminals. You might be granted asylum if you have a reasonable fear to be tortured or killed by the local goverment if you stay where you are! (That's why the russians asked about torture or death penalty and Holders answer "Torture is unlawful in the US" wasn't exactly satisfying with gitmo right there.)

Also leaving a country because of government debt? Germany is a creditor? Germany has a 80% debt to GDP ratio! When they first slid past the magical 70% (EU-countries are supposed to pay a fine to the ECB if they have over 70% debt to GDP ratio) They went "Wait a second! A fine won't help us at all in lowering our debt to gdp ratio! This rule doesn't make any sense!" all of a sudden.

Look at any politicians statements concerning debt und you will begin to see a pattern: They are terribly worried about it when they are in opposition, and once they are in government that worry disappears. In reality nobody cares about government debts. It's just a cheap trick to get some votes because people think that word is scawy.

I've lived literally all around the world, across the USA and visited many places in my life time.
I lived in Asia and Europe for half of my growing life, spending 3 years here and there in each place.
Culture shock can be hard in some cases. In some places, you do not look anything like the people that live there, and can draw stares from them (in Thailand I was known as a "Farong" or "Round Eye"), top that off with being white with freckles and red hair, and you really stand out. Not knowing the language, having to learn the currency and wondering if you're getting a good deal or being ripped off.

The different smells, sounds, sites........it can be overwhelming at times, even if you're just there for a short visit.

Europe was better as I didn't stand out as much, but still had to deal with many of the same things: language, currency, customs, etc.

Then of course their is the climate and weather: what are you used to dealing with? If you come from a temperate part of the US, moving to a tropical or desert country will be quite a shock to your system until you get adjusted to it. If you come from a tropical place like Florida, or a hot and arid place like the SW part of the US, moving to a much more temperate or colder place like northern Europe or some places up north in Canada will be the same shock to you until again you get used to it.

Even then: will it make you happy?

I know from reading your posts in this thread that your main concern is a job. But have you put some thought into your environment that you will be exposing yourself to? You could find the best paying job in the world in another country.....but if the climate there makes you miserable 24/7, then you're not ever going to be happy.

Attitude is important too. Doesn't mater if you move to another country and want to nationalize there. To the people there: you're American. Even if you do attain citizenship in their country, that is what you will always be to them, even if you learn their language, you will still "sound" like an American. And depending on the country, the attitude towards you could be one that you may not care for, no mater how much you explain that you wanted to live in their country.
Giving up your citizenship is a one way road in most cases. It is also a life changing event that you can't take back. Let's say you do move to another country that seems good to you......and down the road something happens in that country that makes you feel the way you do now. Worse, let us say down the road the things that make you angry about living here right now, go away or change for the better........You're not going to be able to simply come back here and switch your citizenship again very easily.

Right now I think you're suffering from "the grass is greener" thought. It might be true, and you might be right. But their are ways to check it out without giving up your citizenship now. People in this thread have suggested it: do your research, find a country and apply for either a student or working visa. Go to that country and try it out first. Make an informed decision, and don't burn the bridge behind you right away.

People in this thread have also made some good suggestions about simply traveling here in the US itself. Not all of the US is the same. Each state is different, different climates, different people, different customs.....people even speak differently (it's all english but the accents are different, and even then, there are places where people speak other languages completely: spanish, asian, creole, etc).
Best of all: you don't need a passport, visa or any paperwork at all to travel around in the US or to even change where you live. And it even costs less to move around (can't hitchhike to Burma very easily).

So far however, the only reasons I've seen you list of wanting to leave the US is: the federal government being in debt and lack of work.
While I can understand those reasons......they are not the best reasons to give up your citizenship here.
Ask yourself: have you tried to live elsewhere in your own country? Have you tried to find work in all 50 states (or even US territories?). Are there places in the US that you think the weather and people would appeal to you (comparing the entire US to Southern CA is horrible. This small town I live in here in SC is NOTHING like So. CA).
But the very big questions that you have to ask yourself before you actually take that step to give up your citizenship is:
"Is there absolutely nothing here for me in the entire United States of America?"

"Have I done everything humanly possible to find work somewhere in my country, even if it might mean a career change?"

"Do I really want to give up all the rights and entitlements I was born with and move to a country where I will not have those rights anymore?"

"Do I really understand that once I leave, there is no coming back, no matter how bad things might get in the place I go to?"

If the answer is Yes, then good luck.

reply to post by teachtaire


Buy a disused oil rig platform and turn it into a mega city dedicated to free power .. 13/14 miles outside of the uk is claimable as you want .. depends how much money you have to ^^

Going to live in an 'ideal' other country isn't really a viable solution.
All world economies are interconnected, just look at the ripples caused by the debt ceiling malarkey that caused the USA to lose it's 'AAA' credit rating. Look at the various issued caused by the Euro and how the countries that use it struggle to 'balance' their economies. Look at the mess in Cyprus.

Frankly if Japan's economy utterly tanked, which is really likely due to the mess with Fukushima, it'd impact all other nations of which debt they might own a part of. Much like China....

With the malarky going on in the House and Senate here in the USA, it's quite possible that a 'government shutdown' could easily crash the AMerican Economy, and thus destabilize the worlds economy as well.

So yes, you could go to another country, but you'd as not escape or improve your economic lot in life.

M.

reply to post by teachtaire

Uruguay. They are very progressive and forward thinking. Gay Marriage is legal there (though I am neither for or against, more so Zen), Marijuana has been legalized there and will be taxed, there's a bunch of Ex-Pat's who live there, fresh air, less pollution, beeches, great economy(they export tons of food), some American companies have branches or are headquartered there/moved there.....and getting a permanent visa there is quite simple. Show that you have been making 500 a month for at least 6 months you are good to go.

Having been thinking about going there myself. However, having been born in the U.S. I feel I am obligated to help out here when the SHTF.

I think the country folk will be the only last remaining industry here after everything crumbles, and that's how we will rebuild. It will be a decentralized U.S. based on sections instead of states. Those with land who are close to self sufficient (veg, poultry, beef, stills, and solar) will be the pioneers who begin the rebuilding process.

But if I was to flee that states, which by the way an article on Yahoo just came out showing RECORD NUMBERS of Americans leaving the US and giving up their passports, it would be Uruguay for me!!!!

Originally posted by AllInMyHead
You should also be aware that you can't just "move" to most other countries unless 1. You have an in-demand skill set (computer programmer, physical therapist etc), 2. Have enough money to be self supporting (i.e. adequate retirement income) 3. You are starting a business based in that country 4. You are marrying someone in that country. 5. Some countries have age restrictions for immigrants.

Even Mexico won't take Americans and have a long list of restrictions. If you plan to live there you must return to the States every six months to renew your Visa. And if you are able to get permanent resident status or citizenship (highly unlikely) you still can't vote or truly own your property.

Good luck!

I can't just say that I'm a genius who is being intellectually discriminated against by the school establishment?

My friend is a student programmer and recently traveled to Russia to do a presentation on an app he made for edge finding and image recognition for biological field work.

That particular "idea" of his was actually not his idea.

He did, however, develop an idea someone else came up with without giving them any type of acknowledgement.

*EDIT* A product of group-think should be attributed to the group which thought it up.

Perhaps developing one of my own ideas for once and wandering off during a convention is a good option.



*EDIT* and to those talking about asylum, I only threw in that question in order to easily differentiate between those who do and don't read. I never considered asylum for myself, it was a psychological trick implemented for identification purposes.

*NOTE* to the person who said that once I leave the country, I can never come back... what the hell? I'm fairly certain that America wont care if I go abroad for sometime. Where did you come up with that logic?

Switzerland is a great country. Strong economy, lovely views. But good luck getting a permit to live here.