The "End Game"

Alright lets say that what you said happens...there are a few things to think about with getting things back on track...so to speak.
You have just survived 3-4 months of hell and watched hundreds or thousands of people die in your area...this is from no food, no resupply of pills(for those that need them to live), many have heart attacks and strokes from working to hard and over doing it ...out of shape people. Plus people stop going to work and basically no power, no nothing for 98% of the population. Those people stayed home to take care of there own family.
So, now that I have said all that and you have just lived through it...how willing are you going to be, to put your trust and faith into anyone again, to help you(other than you and your group that survived)??
If what your saying happens, you just lived through the worst thing that mankind can do to its people...and now your going to trust the same group that lead you straight into it??
If something like that happened ...the last thing I would trust is that!!!
OK So now you say they take it over with military power...ok well how many people do you know in the service right now? How many do you know that would not go home to protect there family? How many of them would rejoin to help in restoring the government...the government I might add... that lead there country into the hell it just went through?
I honestly think if the end game came...that there is no getting a government back... nothing like what we have now, and I think that the USA would not remain whole...meaning that it would be several countries and not one.
This is just my .02 cents for what it is worth.

I also did not say anything about the gangs, mobs, thugs and what not...all of which would be in full force taking everything they can and not caring about how they got it.

reply to post by saltdog


I would suspect that in the aftermath when this happens people would be rounded into camps. You know for their own safety.

The purpose of the GPS system is actually to order the military and police as well as medical crews through the event. The system tracks nuclear fallout and can tell you which areas are safe and which are not.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Garkiniss

 

If anything, the death of the world's largest single nation economy would be directly COUNTER to the goal of self preservation....going to have to do way better than that....

It's going to die anyway. The economy can't grow forever, and as costs increase and wages decrease, coupled with a blooming population, eventually a tipping point will be reached.

They've tried population control through sterilization and "education", but it doesn't work. They've tried indentured servitude, but how long will people accept that? They've tried minimalizing their own costs further via automation, but that backfired.

If the top 1% had to choose between war or peacefully redividing their wealth, which do you think they'd choose? They'd spend billions buildings armies first. They'd wage war for resources, slaughtering tens of thousands in order to spread their banks, to take resources, and further push their agenda abroad. Once that fails, as it always does, they will turn those barrels towards their own borders.

As I said it's about preservation. They'd rather suffer an economic collapse and rise through the ashes anew than they would lose control of it all in this economy. They already hold a majority of hard currency and resources. It will be the people that will be hit the hardest.

reply to post by Garkiniss


Your opening statement IMHO is the reason for the OP scenario to take place. I've been doing a lot of thinking about rise and fall of great civilizations and my conclusion is bright people spark and carry the rise phase, and once a peak is about to be reached the greedy take over. Greedy people are just that, greedy. They're not bright by any stretch of the imagination. In fact the very premise of the pursue of power is a strong reason for the interruption of a country or organization's development - for a small group to be powerful, the rest of the population needs to be miserable, that's how this sick relationship works. And that's what causes the fall phase to take place, the thing with greed is it's insatiable - the more one has, the more one wants, and that's gotta be taken from someone else, which is the oppressed majority. Civil unrest follows, and then civil war - we're already well past the initial stages of that process. So before things get *really* ugly, the bitter pill described by the OP seems like as plausible a solution as any, at least in the eyes of TPTB, for the "continuity of government". The sad part is, there's very little anyone can do about it, which makes me agree with another poster who was rooting for Nibiru. And BTW let me assure you, this rotten way of thinking is not a privilege of the US.

reply to post by txinfidel


this is my point about foreign troops in our country. Who is going to "round up" people? Like salt dog said - who in the military/police force are going to stay "at work" and not go home to take care of their own?

Someone said that that's what they will use the FEMA camps for - hostage taking of the families of the military/police force - and force them to "work" to keep their families safe.

To me, that is truly frightening.

For what it's worth I was told last week by a supervisor that we were getting GPS installed in all of our patrol cars.

It should be noted that we already have a mapquest type system on our laptops that gives us directions to the place we are responding to.

Also our agency is in pretty bad shape financially. Money could be used in a better way. I don't completely understand the need to have GPS installed in the cars. But hey I am just a beat cop.

I work for a medium sized city that is located on the east coast of Florida.

I have nothing to verify this information. It was simply a conversation. Take it for what it is....

reply to post by Garkiniss


The problem with this theory is that without a middle class with disposable income (to keep the economy rolling), the money makers for the elite go in the crapper, and many of the elite eventually go into the poorhouse.

If the elite want to stay rich, they have to keep the populace well fed, housed, and entertained. Lose even ONE of those quality of life indicators, and you risk revolution... So, the end game of destroying America is completely counter to the elites' goal of self preservation (and that includes preserving their wealth).

Do you think the elite do better when the economy is good, or bad? If they were doing well with it in the crapper, you wouldn't see such a scramble to keep it afloat.... They would have let it tank completely.

reply to post by txinfidel


txinfidel, thanks for sharing to keep some potentially aware of nefarious EA*RTH activities.

1 shall watch SOL...

NAMASTE*******

america cannot afford the 30.000 people a day that retire nor can the rest of the developed world and the people are not as stupid as before when it was easy to start a war but just look back in your history at the main the bay of pigs the gulf of toinken pearl harbour and weapons of mass destruction to see how easy it is to get the people shouting usa usa usa half the numpties will be skipping of to the fema camps

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by Garkiniss

 

The problem with this theory is that without a middle class with disposable income (to keep the economy rolling), the money makers for the elite go in the crapper, and many of the elite eventually go into the poorhouse.

If the elite want to stay rich, they have to keep the populace well fed, housed, and entertained. Lose even ONE of those quality of life indicators, and you risk revolution... So, the end game of destroying America is completely counter to the elites' goal of self preservation (and that includes preserving their wealth).

Do you think the elite do better when the economy is good, or bad? If they were doing well with it in the crapper, you wouldn't see such a scramble to keep it afloat.... They would have let it tank completely.

In a gold standard economy I'd happily agree with you. But the fact that "our money", the life blood of the middle class, is essentially worthless, what exactly will they, the ones who control the gold and the fuel lose if the collapse happens? Their literal tons in gold will remain intact, meanwhile the rest of us will be literally burning U.S. dollars to survive the winter. Again, what have they lost?

Once society rights itself, as it always does, they'll move in and reestablish control, as they always have.

Nothing will have changed, except for the fact that there will be far fewer people to work the fields and operate the plants, far fewer mouths to feed, fewer people using up precious resources; water, oil, land.
The world will become rebalanced. They will remain at the top.

reply to post by Gazrok
Of course the elite do better when the economy is good, the thing is they have been preparing for this, saving their resources and just playing the waiting game until the right time. They no longer need the majority of us around because machines do most of the work of the average citizen. And thus if they kill off a large chunk of us, those left would be easier to control and use as slave labor and the machines would do the rest. The elite own this planet and they are tired of us squatters taking up all "their" resources. They want us gone so they can have it all for themselves. So I'd say the OP has a pretty valid story, not sure if he was actually briefed on the subject but it makes a lot of sense to me.

Originally posted by Watchfire
I just don't see this happening. Even a dozen dirty bombs couldn't shock the infrastructure enough to create widespread chaos. A few riots maybe, but collapse of government? I don't think so. I'm just saying, seems like an unrealistic scenario. If you wanted to have that kind of change of guard you'd have to do a lot more.

Yes, yes it could. Look at how Boston was completely shut down for an entire day for ONE person. Imagine the fear and panic over radiation in our largest cities. The media circus would hype and feed the fear.

Interesting story, but I'm not going to waste any time worrying about it. There are at least a hundred plants and refineries within a 100 mile radius of me- if any sort of nuke goes off at any one of them it will cause a chain reaction that will wipe my little corner of Heaven right off the face of the Earth. I doubt I would even feel anything, I would just be evaporated.

reply to post by saltdog


You nailed it buddy! Those of us that survive the initial 2-3-4 months, will trust only the ones that helped make it through the mess. Once "they" start attempting to round us up is when things will get very interesting.

Like a few others have stated, if this scenario were to play out, the USofA would be changed for ever. Multiple countries would make up the states. Government as we know it would cease to exist.

Originally posted by littled16
Interesting story, but I'm not going to waste any time worrying about it. There are at least a hundred plants and refineries within a 100 mile radius of me- if any sort of nuke goes off at any one of them it will cause a chain reaction that will wipe my little corner of Heaven right off the face of the Earth. I doubt I would even feel anything, I would just be evaporated.

ever think of moving i did when i stayed near a refinery the air is better too

reply to post by Gazrok


For the last 2 years I have been helping out at a "sustainability group" at www.librarything.com... website. That site is mostly free and is run by professional librarians.

Gazrok, I have been helping out at that site because ATS does not yet have a sustainability forum. I think such a forum would be a big plus for ATS. Can you put in a good word for that concept with TPTB at ATS? Sustainability is quite different from survivalism ... very little emphasis among sustainability folks in digging your own cave, stockpiling automatic weapons, etc., etc.

Sustainability is the positive side of the collapse scenario. I live most of the year in Northern California, and sometimes in Southern California. In NorCal, there's lots of regions where sustainability is taken seriously. In SoCal, not so much.

To the OP, I agree with one of the earlier replies in this thread, that gangs will be a problem. That is absolutely right. OP, would you recommend for or against forming a Neighborhood Watch group in our own neighborhoods with any of the mentioned scenarios in mind?

reply to post by geobro
It''s where the money's at, where the family is and where the home that is paid off stands. There are risks no matter where you live in this country. Besides, I would rather be gone in the blink of an eye than die slowly and painfully due to radiation sickness after a nuclear incident.

Originally posted by txinfidel
So heres the breakdown. I can not tell you when this will happen. The only answer I have to that is "when they are ready".

These are the things that will happen.

There will be a few or a dozen "dirty bombs" that go off in the US.

There will be an appearance of "no government" or "anarchy" for a period of two to three weeks to two to three months.

Then the government will be effectively transformed and come back in place.

You might ask me how I know this.

I heard it straight from the horses mouth..

If what you say is even slightly true, you may wish to read and think about some things....

I read your OP, read through most of the replies.

You heard it from the horses mouth that there will be a few or a dozen dirty bombs that go off in the US. You're not quite sure when it is going to happen, but when they are ready it will.

So if you heard it from the top guy and you're privy to details of these dirty bombs........what does that make you? ACCESSORY TO CRIME & COMPLICITY

Accessory and Complicity are charges which can make a person just as responsible for a crime as if they were present and committed it themselves. Whether you lend a hand before a crime (Complicity), or after the crime (Accessory), you can be charged. If acting in complicity with another, you will be charged the same as the person committing the crime. If acting as an accessory, you will be charged with a lesser felony if the underlying crime is a felony, or with a petty offense, if the underlying crime is a misdemeanor.

Think about it?

reply to post by Uphill


A neighbor hood watch might be a good idea for general purposes. But for something like this the first thing you will more likely encounter is a city wide quarantine. This would be easy enough for them to do at a moments notice by barricading entry points around the beltway and major interstates and highways.

So if you were in the city the first thing you would want to do is get the hell out of dodge and quick.

There's a movie called right at your door about this subject and give you a pretty good idea what would happen in a quarantine zone.

reply to post by ItDepends


At no point did they imply that they had intentions of setting off bombs.

What was implied specifically was the use of "dirty bombs" in the event of a "terrorist attack" for the purpose of "continuity of government"

For the record I don't know how high up the person was who briefed us about it, but they were very excited to tell us about the system, they invited out all three networks.

Geez how many key words can I fit in one post? Lol