Bill requires all Idaho kids to read ‘Atlas Shrugged’

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Annee
Anyone required to read Atlas Shrugged, should also be required to read Ayn Rand's biography.

She was an extremely self centered, dispicable person.

Annee, that is probably the first time I've ever agreed with you...

Her eyes are always shifted to the side, because she is trying to hide the fact that she really worships Satan.

Uh, well no, we still don't agree.

I am atheist. Satan is as much of a fictional being as god is.

I do believe everything is energy, and there is positive and negative energy.

My point is, just like here on ATS -- when someone posts an opinion article -- research the author and source. Learn why the author believes a certain way.

Everyone should ALWAYS research the author/source to get a perspective on why they think a certain way.

originally posted by: Annee
Uh, well no, we still don't agree.

I was referring to the fact that we both agreed about Rand being self centered and despicable.

And your comment about researching unknown authors and sources is dead on.

That is something I started doing long ago and it is excellent advice.

As far as Satan being a fictional being, you are correct that we still don't agree but 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

I look forward to the day when ALL us agree on everything.

But if one disagrees with Ayn Rand, isn't that someone a socialist/liberal (albeit perhaps a closeted one)?

a reply to: Blaine91555

While I agree with the idea of a balanced approach, I do not agree with this common idea to give both sides equal time. Like giving a young little padawan jedi equal time with the dark side as they get with the light side. No, screw that. This idea that both sides are equally bad is just ridiculous because it doesn't call out the actual terrible values that are present.

We don't need to give equal time to the racist argument and equal time to the greed argument as we do in teaching the dangers of those things.

We need to go back to right and wrong, equality for all, and goodness and kindness toward others. Greed is bad. A world run on greed is bad. Laws that favor only the greedy is bad. Being conscious of the environment is always good. These are facts, not political stances.

originally posted by: Chiftel
But if one disagrees with Ayn Rand, isn't that someone a socialist/liberal (albeit perhaps a closeted one)?

There's conservative, then there is right wing extremism.

When it came to Social Security, Ayn Rand was right there collecting hers, plus other government programs --- under her married name.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: Annee
Uh, well no, we still don't agree.

I was referring to the fact that we both agreed about Rand being self centered and despicable.

And your comment about researching unknown authors and sources is dead on.

That is something I started doing long ago and it is excellent advice.

As far as Satan being a fictional being, you are correct that we still don't agree but 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

I look forward to the day when ALL us agree on everything.

Gotcha!

Leave religion out of government. Then it's possible far more will agree with everything.

hi more books in schools the better. including fiction.

man made global warming is real btw just wanted to say that lol

originally posted by: Annee
I do believe everything is energy

This isn't a belief, it's a fact.

originally posted by: yourmaker

originally posted by: Annee
I do believe everything is energy

This isn't a belief, it's a fact.

You trying to start an off topic argument?

Back to: Ayn Rand and her negative energy.

originally posted by: Chiftel
But if one disagrees with Ayn Rand, isn't that someone a socialist/liberal (albeit perhaps a closeted one)?

It could just mean that a person disagrees with her philosophy that the ultimate purpose of life is the pursuit of self-interest.

Ryan's Hero, Ayn Rand, Worshiped A Serial Killing Psychopath!

No, I'm not kidding and this is not one of those fake headlines. This is something I didn't know and just came across, and is one of the most disturbing things I've read in a long time. Over at Naked Capitalism, is an article by Mark Ames about Ayn Rand that is truly disturbing and should send up a huge red flag when people say they admire Ayn Rand. It's a long article but well worth the read, and I warn you, it goes into detail about a Psychopathic killer (apparently someone Ayn Rand admired) and the sick crimes he committed. Paul Ryan's Guru, Ayn Rand worshiped a serial killer who dismembered little girls. Below the fold are excerpts.

There’s something deeply unsettling about living in a country where millions of people go frothing bat# angry at the suggestion that maybe health care coverage should be extended to the tens of millions of Americans who don’t have it; or when they froth at the mouth in ecstasy at the thought of privatizing and slashing bedrock social programs like Social Security or Medicare. It might not be as hard to stomach if other Western countries also had a large, vocal chunk of their population who thought like this, but the US is seemingly the only place where right-wing elites can openly share their distaste for the working poor. Where do they find their philosophical justification for this kind of attitude? It turns out, you can trace much of this thinking back to Ayn Rand, a popular cult-philosopher who plays Charlie to the American right-wing’s Manson Family. One reason why most countries don’t find the time to embrace her thinking is that Ayn Rand is a textbook sociopath. Literally a sociopath: Ayn Rand, in her notebooks, worshiped a notorious serial murderer-dismemberer, and used this killer as an early model for the type of “ideal man” that Rand promoted in her more famous books — ideas which were later picked up on and put into play by major right-wing figures of the past half decade, including the key architects of America’s most recent economic catastrophe — former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan and SEC Commissioner Chris Cox — along with other notable right-wing Republicans such as Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, Rep. Paul Ryan, and South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford.

www.dailykos.com...#

WARNING: The rap about this serial killer is very disturbing so I didn't put anything much about it. Go to the link if you want to hear some of her idealization of this killer.

The best article I have ever read on Ayn Rand:
How Ayn Rand Became anAmerican Icon

Rand was broken by the Bolsheviks as a girl, and she never left their bootprint behind. She believed her philosophy was Bolshevism's opposite, when in reality it was its twin. Both she and the Soviets insisted a small revolutionary elite in possession of absolute rationality must seize power and impose its vision on a malleable, imbecilic mass. The only difference was that Lenin thought the parasites to be stomped on were the rich, while Rand thought they were the poor.

She became a dark mirror of everything she proclaimed to hate, and ultimately even she couldn't follow her own ideals.

The woman was a complete sociopath, and her writings teach the same thing, They should be shunned by all decent human beings. Especially by the conservative, supposedly christian dominated, right. It frightens me that anyone would find her writings worthy of reading at all, let alone the fact that they have become popular again.
Reminds me of something it says in the Bible about the “end times”:

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. - 2 Timothy

I don't mind the any book being on a class's required reading or suggested reading list. I have a major problem with "you must read *this* book and pass a test on *this* book in order to graduate". My kids have access to books, books and more books. My son has autism and struggles with basic chapter books. My daughter read, and completed a high school unit on, Animal Farm at age 11. This bill would simply be another case of higher government mandated, one-size-fits-all, bull-puckey.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Chiftel
But if one disagrees with Ayn Rand, isn't that someone a socialist/liberal (albeit perhaps a closeted one)?

There's conservative, then there is right wing extremism.

When it came to Social Security, Ayn Rand was right there collecting hers, plus other government programs --- under her married name.

I really don't see that much of a difference these days. Or days past.

The only difference that I see is that right wingers can get away with a lot more of what they've always wanted but couldn't always have.

Right wing extremism is now mainstream right wing.

The middle of the supposed political spectrum has shifted to the right severely in the last 60 years.

See Paul Ryan for a glaring example.

a reply to: Chiftel

The S/L words?! Oh the horror...

a reply to: Mountainmeg

You're right on the money here!!!

This isn't about some stupid book or it's author or whether or not you like her or not either. Who cares what the book is or it's agenda. NO SINGLE BOOK SHOULD BE LEGISLATED FOR A PASS OR FAIL STUDENT REQUIREMENT!!

Read that last part again if you must because this shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. The idea that a single book of any ideology should be legally mandated for every Next Generation Student before they pass their basic education is absolutely insane!! Talk about an obvious attempt at brainwashing an entire populous in one single shot.

What's next after Atlas Shrugged for other generations??? The Bible, The Communist Manifesto, The Torah, The Koran, Animal Farm, War and Peace, Plato's Republic, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc.

It doesn't matter what book you pick, or what agenda or side it's pushing. No single mandatory reading material should be legislated other than the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Aside from that it shouldn't be about one single idea ever. Educational Reading Material should vary topic and type as much as possible and should cover a wide variety of subjects and authors, none of which should be Legislated for an Entire Nation and it's next generation. That's like something Edward Bernays would have wet dreams about doing to a nation.

Let me make a correction here. This isn't for the nation but just for Idaho. My stance on this does not change however. An entire State of Brainwashing is still Bats**t Crazy, although not as Bats**t Crazy and Brainwashing the country. Still extremely stupid though.

originally posted by: Chiftel

See Paul Ryan for a glaring example.

No thanks.

Glaring example, yes.

Heck, why not make "Mein Kamp" required reading too?

Conservatives love to rail against government mandates of any sort, with education being one area in particular, EXCEPT when it involves foisting ideological political dogma that they think supports their world view. I bet the guy pushing this bill as well as most of the ditto heads supporting this bill haven't read Atlas Shrugged, let alone know what it is actually about.

A hearty two thumbs down.

a reply to: HauntWok

This is a lot better then great gatsby and to kill a mockingbird. Though I havent read it, Ayn Rand was a genius and technically right about most everything.

originally posted by: spiritualzombie

originally posted by: Chiftel
But if one disagrees with Ayn Rand, isn't that someone a socialist/liberal (albeit perhaps a closeted one)?

It could just mean that a person disagrees with her philosophy that the ultimate purpose of life is the pursuit of self-interest.

But isn't that person then basically admitting to being a socialist or at least an altruist? The right is against socialism.

Objectivists are against altruism.