Pope urges 'mutual respect' with Islam; While Iran Presidents threaten Israel

reply to post by charles1952

A fight with wildtimes will not solve anything, fights in only a few, special circumstances ever do. Besides, fighting with wildtimes will make you wish you just walked away and called it a draw.

I am not eager for a fight, i don't even like debates much. I want discussions. I am not playing to win so no question of a draw.

Please, let's see if we can grope our
way forward to some possible
solution to the problem we face. I
promise to work with you and be as
fair as I know how to be.

SURE. Fairness is essential. I'l try to be the least snappy as I know how to be.

reply to post by logical7

Dear logical7,

May I ask you to take a look at this post from the previous page? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Does this seem like a reasonable place to start, or do you think we need some other approach?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by logical7

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by charles1952

 

I was just reading about this and i came across this

"Our race is the Master Race. We are

divine gods on this planet. We are as

different from the inferior races as they

are from insects. In fact, compared to

our race, other races are beasts and

animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our

destiny is to rule over the inferior

races. Our earthly kingdom will be

ruled by our leader with a rod of iron.

The masses will lick our feet and serve

us as our slaves." -Menachem Begin (Israeli Prime Minister, 1977-1983,

Nobel Peace Prize Winner, Seriously!)

why do you think Nutty is not equally nutty?

Haven't double checked on that statement, but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually said that.
We have on record plenty of such statements have been made by Jewish leaders in the past.

Yet, there is a weird silence regarding this matter. Its almost as if people dare not point it out.... as demonstrated here by the fact that nobody has addressed this post.

Their silence speaks volumes.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by logical7

 

Dear logical7,

May I ask you to take a look at this post from the previous page? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Does this seem like a reasonable place to start, or do you think we need some other approach?

With respect,
Charles1952

i have replied to you. The last post on the previous page.

reply to post by charles1952

1.) Can we agree that the Jewish people should have their own nation, somewhere in the world, which they can control as they see fit? If we can't agree on that, please let us know clearly.

Sure.
If the Europeans made the Jews suffer, then make the Europeans pay with their land... not Arab Palestinians.

2.) If we agree on that, can we agree that the Jews have stronger ties to the area of Israel than any where else? These ties would be based on ancient history, international agreements, UN declarations, and their successful defense of the territory.

The Jews were already well established in Europe and North America.... not as a silent minority, but rather as a group that held massive influence over various institutions in those countries.

As for Jews having strong ties to the area of Israel, they did at ONE point in history... much like how the native Americans and the aborigines had strong ties to America and Australia respectively. How come they don't have a land to call their exclusive "home" anymore?

3.) If we can't agree on 2.) What location is more reasonable for their nation?

Wheres the rule that every group should have a nation of their own.
Where are the homelands of the native Americans, aborigines, Inuits, Maoris and all those other ethnicities who don't have a homeland of their own?

Originally posted by colbe
The spiritual director of this anonymous seer was spiritual director to Mother Teresa and his spiritual director at one time was Padre Pio who bore the wounds of Christ (stigmata) for fifty years.

Maybe. Or more likely the person is a liar ... claiming visions and messages from God either because they are deluded or because they like to manipulate people. It's amazing how you buy into the lies of fake 'seers', but when people here tell the truth, you call THEM liars. :shk:

He will come to save Israel, just as I came. He, too will die in Jerusalem

Written while Benedict was pope. He didn't go to Jerusalem and die. The message is false.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Yet, there is a weird silence regarding this matter. Its almost as if people dare not point it out.... as demonstrated here by the fact that nobody has addressed this post. Their silence speaks volumes.

yes. Maybe many don't even mind being slaves to that master race!
Its just years of subliminal programming and rubbing the holocaust in anybody's face if they question israel.
Its amazing how people start believing the aggressors to be poor victims. The wonders mass media can do to fool the masses!

reply to post by logical7

Dear logical7,

I'm really sorry that I did not see your post, I don't know how I skipped over it. My fault.

But beyond that, I see we have a very difficult road ahead of us.

The land in question was given to British control by the League of Nations. No one has questioned it's legality that I know of, and it's been almost a hundred years. Additionally, Jews did buy large portions of Israel. I have not seen evidence that it was stolen from poor, innocent Palestinians living on the land.

Whether or not anybody has an obligation to give it to them, someone did. They didn't steal it.

The Ottoman empire made a big mistake in backing the Germans in World War I. They lost, of course, and among other lands the victors, Britian got Palestine and the French got Syria. Both gave over control of those lands as they saw fit. Are you claiming that Syria is legitimate and Israel isn't?

The reason that the "colonialists" "occupied" the land, was that they were fighting against the Ottomans and the Ottomans lost, losing land in the process. Considering the history of the Arab wars against Israel, they have been losing wars more continually than even the United States, whose losses didn't start until after World War II.

International agreements don't count if the party that is affected is not included. I cannot sell your house to someone and tell you to get out as it has been SOLD.

But they were included. They were included in the surrender agreements. They were an affected party, they were at war with the US and Britain. The land was surrendered. The Ottomans could have stayed neutral, they could have joined the Allies, but when you freely bet on the losing horse, you lose your money.

Please show me, why, under international law, Israel should not exist as a Jewish land. They have been willing to trade, and have traded, land for peace several times.

I'm afraid I still don't understand your objection. If I have my facts wrong, please show me better. If Israel is violating international law, could you tell me how the hearings or trials are coming along? But isn't threatening to eliminate a Jewish state in Israel (which is what Zionism means) a threat against another member nation which is a huge violation of UN rules?

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952

The reason that the "colonialists" "occupied" the land, was that they were fighting against the Ottomans and the Ottomans lost, losing land in the process.

Three major agreements signed during the period 1916-1918 not only
changed the course of the Great War but had a major impact on historical developments in West Asia in the latter half of the 20 century. The first, between Henry McMahon of Britain and Sharif Hussain of Hejaz, enlisted the support of the latter for the British war efforts in return for a promise to set up an independent Arab state. The second, between Great Britain and Emir Abdulaziz Ibn Saud entailed a subsidy by the British to the latter in return for a promise not to attack Sharif Hussain in Hejaz. The third, between the British and world Zionist leaders, to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine led to the Balfour Declaration of 1917. Needless to say, there were glaring contradictions in these promises and declarations.

Sharif Hussain, believing that the Entente Powers would indeed honor their pledge to create an Arab state under him, organized guerrilla attacks on Ottoman garrisons. His commandos successfully destroyed the Hejaz railway and overran the cities of Mecca and Jeddah. Hundreds of Ottoman soldiers were killed in the desert. The Ottoman garrison at Madina was surrounded while that in Yemen, at the
entrance to the Red Sea, was isolated.

Once they were out of the war, the Russians made public the secret provisions of the Sykes-Picot agreements splitting up the Ottoman Empire between the European powers. This caused some embarrassment to the British in the eyes of their Arab clients. But it was too late, because by now the United States had entered the war and was supporting the war efforts of the Entente powers and the tide of the war
had turned.

At the London Conference in 1919, Sharif Hussain was not even invited to attend and only the last minute intervention of the British foreign office enabled him to sit in as an observer. The occupation of Arab lands was total and complete. The sacred sites in Jerusalem as well as the oil wealth of the Persian Gulf were entirely at the disposal of Europe.

Do i need to say more?
How can they divide the ottomans empire among themselves and also promise land to zionist and at the same time make an agreement with arabs to give them a arab state and then backstab them and plant a poisonous seed of israel in the arab land?
I call that a gang of lying thugs with no honour and it hasn't changed a bit.

reply to post by logical7

Do i need to say more?

You need to provide a reliable source, first of all.

And you need to stop vilifying others - and do something productive.

reply to post by logical7

I want discussions. I am not playing to win so no question of a draw.

Your style and words belie your proclamation.

What are your suggestions? Exterminate the Jews? Yeah, that goes over real well.
I wonder what it is that causes your hostility. You don't seem to want "discussion" when you resort to insults and allegations of what others "are doing" or "are thinking" or "know."

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Do i need to say more?

You need to provide a reliable source, first of all.

And you need to stop vilifying others - and do something productive.

www.historylearningsite.co.uk/sykes_picot_agreement.htm

The Sykes-Picot
Agreement effectively
handed over control of
Syria, Lebanon and Turkish
Cilicia to the French and Palestine, Jordan and areas around the Persian Gulf
and Baghdad to the British.
While neither France nor
Britain actually ‘owned’
these territories, they were
to effectively control them at a governmental and
administrative level.
Northern Syria and
Mesopotamia were also
considered to be an area
of French influence while Arabia and the Jordan
Valley were considered to
be a sphere of influence of
the British. Jerusalem was
to be governed by an
international administration. This agreement did clash
with the McMahon Agreement of 1915 and the statements made by T E
Lawrence to the Arabs
who had expected to be
allowed to govern their
own regions after helping
the Allies fight the Turks during World War One. The agreement was never
completely fulfilled by the peace settlements but it did lead to the Arab people
not fully trusting the British
or French governments at
times in the future.

reply to post by logical7

The Sykes-Picot
Agreement effectively
handed over control of
Syria, Lebanon and Turkish
Cilicia to the French and Palestine, Jordan and areas around the Persian Gulf
and Baghdad to the British.
While neither France nor
Britain actually ‘owned’
these territories, they were
to effectively control them at a governmental and
administrative level.

As you recently proclaimed to another member:
"Maybe you need it!" Well....maybe the Arabs had shown that they couldn't get along, and weren't satisfactory participants in the world anymore. It doesn't matter what they did a thousand years and more ago - it matters that they can't get along with EACH OTHER, let alone the rest of the world. Does that not ring ANY bells for you???

Charles explained it to you - the Ottoman Empire sided with Hitler - and apparently they would do the same now, if they had a chance. Why should the rest of the world allow such vicious hatred to be perpetuated?

reply to post by wildtimes

the Ottoman Empire sided with Hitler - and apparently they would do the same now, if they had a chance. Why should the rest of the world allow such vicious hatred to be perpetuated?

well you are mixing WWI and WWII, there was no Hitler in I and no Ottoman Empire in II.
The British promised arabs independence in exchange of help to defeat Ottoman empire by arousing divide on basis of arab nationalism as Ottomans were Turks. The British, French and Russians also secretly divided up arab lands among themself and also a promise to give palestine to zionists.
I call them big time honourless liars and cheats.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by buster2010

 

Good point. Have to remember the "spin". Strangely enough, Reuters is one of the few sources I thought were fairly erm, I mean 'reasonably and relatively' unbiased.

Think of Reuters as a wholesale news service pumping put press releases which are then syndicated to news outlets – BBC, Fox, CNN, Daily Maily all use the service – which are then often tweaked with a little spin and perhaps an injection of a half truth here and there to sell the story.

reply to post by wildtimes

What are your suggestions? Exterminate the Jews? Yeah, that goes over real well.

Now just where did he or anybody else suggest "exterminate the Jews"? Where?

Either quote him verbatim or refrain from putting words into peoples mouths.

Till then, its on record that you have exposed yourself as a liar and a slanderer for all to see.

We need to be love to all, and wayshowers. Don't overburden another, those without the same understanding, but show the way. So he is right in a way. And the learning goes both ways....For all people have unique gifts within and need to start doing the good work they came to do, the love work they came to do.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Hey! Sk0rpi0n! Hold up!

Wildtimes didn't say it was anyone's suggestion, she asked if it was his suggestion. She didn't lie, she didn't slander. You're just wrong.

If I haven't made that distinction clear, let me know and I'll explain it differently. I know it can be tricky. Wildtimes may be wrong now and then, but she doesn't lie or slander. And it really hurts your case to suggest it.

This appears to be a case of knee-jerk reaction, oversensitivity, a desire to pick a fight, or some combination thereof. That seems to be what's tearing the Middle-East apart, and now I have a better idea where it's coming from.

reply to post by charles1952

Wildtimes didn't say it was anyone's suggestion, she asked if it was his suggestion. She didn't lie, she didn't slander. You're just wrong.

Read what she posted again:

What are your suggestions? Exterminate the Jews? Yeah, that goes over real well.

Logical7 said nothing that even comes remotely close to what she was insinuating... so there is no question of "asking" if he even made that suggestion.

Either she is having an extremely hard time comprehending what logical7 actually posted... or she is deliberately trying to distort matters. That is dishonest and slanderous.

And my question remains :
Just where did logical7 or anybody else suggest "exterminate the Jews"?
And what exactly did he post that wildtimes assumed was a suggestion to "exterminate the Jews".