"When I Get These Cuffs Off You I'm Going to Kick the Piss Out of You"

Another pig on a power trip.

Newsflash to all the cops out there. There is no law that says we have to treat you with respect. You treat US with respect and you will get some in return.

1) Having a loud muffler or no muffler is not something this kid can or should be arrested for. A ticket? Sure. Personally they annoy the hell out of me too.

2) The cop should have given the kid a reason as to why he wanted him out of the car. Then again, the kid should have complied.

4) The kid asked several times why he was under arrest. The reply he got several times was "because I say so". It is the law in EVERY state that you must be informed WHY you are being arrested. "Because I said so" is not a valid reason and gives this kid every avenue to sue for false arrest. Especially because he has it recorded. Don't believe me? Look it up. I also don't recall hearing him read his rights. Perhaps it happened after he stopped filming.

5) Clearly the officer threatened this kid with physical force. Whether he did or not is besides the point. This kid had every reason to believe that he would be attacked, especially in today's police state.

All this kid was guilty of was possibly not having a muffler. This cop was, as many are, on a typical ego trip.. and didn't like that some punk kid questioned his "authority".

Another note to all you cops out there... God bless the good cops. I've met many of you. The ones who are truly cool, follow the law and treat people with respect get ALL my respect. But your fellow officers, the ones who believe they are god.. are giving you ALL a bad name. And the day is going to come when the people have had enough. No, that is not a threat. But if you all can't see that your crazy. The level of Police abuse has been skyrocketing. And eventually, civilians fuses are going to run out.



5)

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I agree with you somewhat. I have a very unique and inside perspective on the subject. I will say that in my every day life, every time I have been pulled over I have been just plane friendly with the police officer and every time they were extremely friendly back. In fact, in my entire adult life, I can't say I have ever had an experience with an officer on the "street" that was negative and almost always pulled away thinking, wow, what a nice guy! (or girl!)

With that said, I have seen the other side of it too. Beat traffic cops aren't all that exist and when it comes to other types of officers, the lines start to blur and that is where you get into problems. Sometimes, cops that have been off the beat do something to earn them the beat again, when that happens, more often than not you are dealing with somebody with a serious chip on their shoulder and even sometimes, an unbalanced and mentally perturbed individual.

Officers are just regular people, some are good and some are bad, some...... Are very bad. All you must do is temper your respect with your Constitutional rights. No reason to be rude but then again, no reason to not evoke your rights where you see fit either. A good cop will recognize both behaviors as an act of a responsible citizen of the Untied States.

reply to post by Helious


Don't get me wrong. Police officers don't get a free pass to act like assholes in my world just because they are police officers. I've seen cops act like idiots because they are in positions of authority and I have no respect for that sort of behavior whatsoever. I believe they should hold to the motto "protect and SERVE".

I too come from a unique perspective since my Dad spent some time as a police officer, serving with the RCMP. I very much respect good police work, but I also detest cops who abuse the privilege of being in a position to both protect and serve. My father felt the same way, and couldn't stand police who abused their powers. Believe me he has seen a lot of both sides having worked as both a police officer and a correctional facility officer.

I just find there is a knee jerk reaction to videos like this where people automatically resort to hatred of police and use derogatory terms like "pig" when we don't even know what happened before the video started rolling. There are police officers (who do their job properly) and pigs (who abuse their power or engage in police corruption, brutality, etc) yet some people automatically assume every cop they run into falls into the latter category. I'd be willing to wager most of those people are on the wrong side of the law or have been frequently.

Like you said, a lot of cops are just people doing their jobs. Some of them do it well, and others should be relieved of their positions.

reply to post by DaTroof


No you are dead wrong.
There was no reason to arrest him. The kid should have rolled up his windows and locked his door continued to film the cop, then send the video to someone, call 911 explain the situation and then wait for a less idiotic cop to show up.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by DaTroof

 

No you are dead wrong.
There was no reason to arrest him. The kid should have rolled up his windows and locked his door continued to film the cop, then send the video to someone, call 911 explain the situation and then wait for a less idiotic cop to show up.

And you can base that on what? the video the kid edited? What happened before?

I'm not sure how the law works where you live, but here, if a police officer pulls you over and asks for drivers license and registration/insurance papers, and you fail to produce them, he or she can ask you to exit your vehicle and place you under arrest if you refuse to comply.

You have no idea what the cop said to the kid prior to the start of the video in the OP. I think the cop was WAY out of line with his comments, and should face disciplinary action just based on his comments alone. But I think you are being a tad naive regarding what transpired.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by DaTroof

 

No you are dead wrong.
There was no reason to arrest him. The kid should have rolled up his windows and locked his door continued to film the cop, then send the video to someone, call 911 explain the situation and then wait for a less idiotic cop to show up.

And you can base that on what? the video the kid edited? What happened before?

I'm not sure how the law works where you live, but here, if a police officer pulls you over and asks for drivers license and registration/insurance papers, and you fail to produce them, he or she can ask you to exit your vehicle and place you under arrest if you refuse to comply.

You have no idea what the cop said to the kid prior to the start of the video in the OP. I think the cop was WAY out of line with his comments, and should face disciplinary action just based on his comments alone. But I think you are being a tad naive regarding what transpired.

I think most are speculating and commenting on the available evidence presented. Nothing more. In what evidence has been presented, it is hard to deny that wrong doing has been committed by the officer on the scene.

Assuming agreement on nothing else. Threatening violence against somebody you have restrained is a criminal offense, that is regardless of how bad they may have pissed you off. On that merit alone, I think that you MUST assume that the mental fortitude of this officer was at a low point on this day and must therefore conclude on a reasonable basis that his actions from start to finish are highly suspect.

reply to post by Helious


I think that most likely the breakdown in communication happened prior to the camera starting. I think the cop was most likely asking some questions, and the young man started being a smartass before filming began. From the video it's pretty clear they had been talking prior.

I don't think the cop was automatically being authoritarian when he requested the driver get out of the car. For all I know he was making that request so that the driver could show him his muffler, or to separate him from people in the vehicle. Either way, asking someone to step out of their vehicle is lawful. If that person refuses to exit the vehicle, it is lawful to make an arrest.

I don't think there are any laws on the books that indicate an officer making an arrest or asking someone out of their vehicle is required to tell the person why, or verbally inform them of the exact law they are violating. If you think about this from a realistic standpoint, if officers were required to inform everyone that screamed "You have to tell me why or I won't comply!" it would be awful hard to arrest anyone, for anything. Cops are not lawyers, they are not judges. They don't need to be able to cite every law. If a cop sees someone pissing in a crosswalk he doesn't need to be able to recite the statute from memory to know someone was breaking the law. That sounded personal, but I've never been caught!

The only thing here that I would call an injustice was the officer making threats against the individual. AT THAT POINT I would argue that if the individual escaped the cop he would be well within his rights.

You may not like that a cop is allowed to order you out of your car, and if you don't comply you can be arrested, but it's the law. I personally have mixed feelings about that.

The ONLY illegal thing that occurred was the officer threatening the driver. I think that's what should be discussed, not if an officer is allowed to arrest someone after they refuse to comply with lawful commands.

My take, the cop should be in some deep poo, but didn't violate anyone's rights or go outside the law until the young man was in handcuffs. I agree that the cop is in need of a harsh reality check, I guess I just disagree with everyone else except the doofus up thread on WHEN he broke the law.

reply to post by Wookiep


Yep. Let me tell you about my traffic stop a few days ago (in KY). The cop pulled me over for allegedly speeding (despite me seeing him a good half mile away and slowing, being in a clump of cars, and the officers - 2 squad cars - being parked window to window chatting). I was in my full work uniform and had my lunch with me (and was being made late by the stop) The stop was smooth until he asked for my papers and I had to tell him I had a legally owned gun in my glove box and was giving him a heads up. That's when the two officers, who pulled me over together started their harassment. One asked who told me it was legal to put in the glove box. I told him it was what I had always heard and was pretty certain it was legal. He asked where I heard it, and I said from another officer to which he asked who, and I told him I didn't remember. He let me get it out (while the second cop stood at my passenger side window) and then demanded I get out of the car and he went back to his car.

Now the second cop (one was a state and one was one of those traffic only cops) started asking me questions and asking if there would be anything else in the car if he brought dogs in. I asked why he would need to search anything and he said "i'm not saying I am" and I said I know there is nothing in it. He went through the "if I find anything I will be mad.. blah blah" and kept talking dogs. He had me sit on the front of my car. He went to the other officer, when he came back he explained that because I had a few logs in the back (cut logs that were for a campfire. I also had cooking sticks and a sleeping bag) that people sometimes use those to throw off of drug dogs. He also for no reason asked when the last time I smoked pot was even though there was absolutely no reason to assume I had ever smoked pot. As I was becoming later and later for work I just said there is no need for dogs and I opened the back and let him look under the sleeping bag (which is what he really was wanting) and I guess they couldn't get one out or knew there was no justification and they let me go (with a 200 dollar speeding ticket of course..). HOWEVER right before they let me go and held me out of my car they told me that my gun WAS legally contained.. so it was basically just harassment.

This was the first time I was ever made to get out of the car and questioned in such a way for speeding and also happens to be the first time I was pulled over for speeding with my gun in the glovebox.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by Helious

 

I think that most likely the breakdown in communication happened prior to the camera starting. I think the cop was most likely asking some questions, and the young man started being a smartass before filming began. From the video it's pretty clear they had been talking prior.

I don't think the cop was automatically being authoritarian when he requested the driver get out of the car. For all I know he was making that request so that the driver could show him his muffler, or to separate him from people in the vehicle. Either way, asking someone to step out of their vehicle is lawful. If that person refuses to exit the vehicle, it is lawful to make an arrest.

I don't think there are any laws on the books that indicate an officer making an arrest or asking someone out of their vehicle is required to tell the person why, or verbally inform them of the exact law they are violating. If you think about this from a realistic standpoint, if officers were required to inform everyone that screamed "You have to tell me why or I won't comply!" it would be awful hard to arrest anyone, for anything. Cops are not lawyers, they are not judges. They don't need to be able to cite every law. If a cop sees someone pissing in a crosswalk he doesn't need to be able to recite the statute from memory to know someone was breaking the law. That sounded personal, but I've never been caught!

The only thing here that I would call an injustice was the officer making threats against the individual. AT THAT POINT I would argue that if the individual escaped the cop he would be well within his rights.

You may not like that a cop is allowed to order you out of your car, and if you don't comply you can be arrested, but it's the law. I personally have mixed feelings about that.

The ONLY illegal thing that occurred was the officer threatening the driver. I think that's what should be discussed, not if an officer is allowed to arrest someone after they refuse to comply with lawful commands.

My take, the cop should be in some deep poo, but didn't violate anyone's rights or go outside the law until the young man was in handcuffs. I agree that the cop is in need of a harsh reality check, I guess I just disagree with everyone else except the doofus up thread on WHEN he broke the law.

Your points are hard to argue in this situation because it is obvious that the entire encounter was not recorded from start to finish and that being the case, I can't argue all of the facts or circumstances that may have been present.

I am in a grey area as far as decisive knowledge on the legality of being ordered out of your car when the engine is shut off. That usually doesn't happen so admittedly, I am at a loss to intelligently debate that point specifically. I know that federal officers at checkpoints can not order you to exit your vehicle and I know that peace officers can order you to follow reasonable orders while in operation of a motor vehicle but after that, the legality gets sketchy.

I will prescribe myself more actual case law as the remedy.

All that said, it is almost moot completely because you are right in saying that what was the true transgression in this instance was the threat of violence by somebody who is supposed to be in the business of the law. That action and that action alone is what should be focused on in this instance.

reply to post by ATSmediaPRO


Usual anti police, half - the - story video, about a belligerent citizen, failing to follow a police officers requests, followed by a lot of anti police posts by equally belligerent, let's - jump - on - the - anti - police - bandwagon know it alls, who know their rights. ( ? )

You were'nt there...how could you possibly know the antecedent to the situation ?

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by DaTroof

 

Lol. No-one said it wasn't against the law, but it's something people get TICKETED for. They pay the fine, or they go to court. You know, due process. Have you ever seen anyone arrested on the spot over a loud muffler? Ever? Even the cop didn't know what he was arresting him for. "Cause I said so" uh huh.

edit on 1-8-2013 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

The cop arrested him for obstruction. He said so in the video. And the dude, from what I heard, sounded like he was obstructing. The cop may have been childish and unreasonable about the incident, but from what I could tell, he was operating within the law. Up until the point where he threatened the kid, if he did. I didnt hear him say that. im not saying he didnt though. All in all, neither the kid nor the cop sound, to me, like they handled this situation the best way.

This cop certainly had some attitude.

Having said that, I've never had a problem with any in my life because I have always agreed with whatever they say. Challenge them and you are putting them in a position where they feel they need to prove to you that they are right.

OK. First of all, obviously, the cop wasn't doing anything wrong by pulling him over if the area he was in had an excessive noise ordinance or something.

However, neither of them really needed to get snitty over such a petty thing. I make no bones about it. I don't like cops much (It's just in my nature to dislike being told what to do) but I realize they are necessary and they have a job to do. I always try to be civil with them when and if I encounter them.

I certainly have encountered some cops who were openly hostile with me from the instant they saw me for no obvious reason. Didn't intentionally do anything to upset them. One cop got angry at me because he asked me a question and I accidentally gave him the wrong information. He asked me if it was my car (it was technically my dad's car) and I just said "yes" without thinking. Obviously, he probably already knew it wasn't my car when he asked because he already had my license.

Anyway, I guess he thought I lied to him on purpose and he got unbelievably angry and got right in my face and started saying all kinds of stuff. I tried to explain but he didn't care. He was hostile the rest of the time. And the crazy thing is that he'd initially pulled me over for no reason. He just thought I looked suspicious, I guess.

Anyway, you kind of have to just put up with it when they get like that. Some of them are just jerks. It's worse when a cop is a jerk but you find them everywhere you go. I went to a plumbing store once to get a new faucet. The guy behind the counter was the biggest A-hole. I have no idea what his problem was. I don't know if he just had some kind of problem with me or he's always like that or he was just having a bad day. Whatever.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Another pig on a power trip.

Newsflash to all the cops out there. There is no law that says we have to treat you with respect. You treat US with respect and you will get some in return.

Doesn't help at all when you call them pigs. Obviously, you don't have to treat anyone with respect but if it's a cop, you're going to lose if you start something with him and he wants to get even. If he gets mad and beats you up or something, obviously, he can get in trouble for that but if he actually has a reason to stop you (if you're breaking a law or something) he can definitely ruin your day and there isn't much you can do about it.

I don't think we gain anything by treating them all like they don't deserve any respect.

reply to post by DaTroof


He had a muffler. He was acting like a human being. Would you happily be arrested for doing nothing wrong?

You will say yes now I am sure. But be honest man come on.

clearly bulling the kid over nothing.

people saying "that kid deserves to XYZ" please dont even try to defend the cop. The kid is a citizen, within his rights and not breaking any laws as any other person.

his age is irrelevant (or should be) but the cop decides to give him a hard (and illegal) time over it.

If anyone needs to be bullied its the cop waving his badge around like a superior being.

Originally posted by DaTroof
Smart ass kid with a loud muffler, thinks he can get away by watching YouTube videos. He resists, so he has no case. Punk asses like this brat need to be taken off the street.

You belong in 1930's Germany, or modern day Syria, or perhaps North Korea.

You think people should be arrested for being "brats" under your own specific determination of it? Hell, why not go all out and pick on whoever else you find "undesirable" too. How about locking up gay people, or arresting black people, or imprisoning all Muslims?! Yeah, that's the way to go, ignore the actual LEGAL SYSTEM, and let officers pick and choose when they can arrest anyone they don't like, or who dares to question their motives and their authority.

The kid was pulled over, he was asking what the problem was, the officer became belligerent and then arrested the kid for nothing more than his dented ego.

This is what happens when you give lunatics a uniform and a gun, and allow them to make up the law as they go. This is what happens when an arrogant and ignorant "officer" on a power trip doesn't get his own way, with those he pulls over cowering and treating him like their father. This is what happens when those officers are never held to account for their actions and their department superiors cover it all up.

Thousands of people have been killed in the street by "officers" just like him, and killed in custody by "falling", or becoming "mysteriously unconscious" in detention. This is what causes it, hyped up boys in uniforms on power trips who cannot stand it when someone embarrasses them and challenges their authority.

I hope this cop loses his job. You don't want that kind of ego-driven thug in a uniform.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
This cop certainly had some attitude.

Having said that, I've never had a problem with any in my life because I have always agreed with whatever they say. Challenge them and you are putting them in a position where they feel they need to prove to you that they are right.

AS IT SHOULD BE!

Why cower in their presence? Why feel like you have to comply with everything they say, even if you know it's wrong, or you know there will be repercussions if you challenge it?

A police force cannot have the trust of a scared public, and you are suggesting that fear of the police is right and okay. That's just crazy!

If people are scared of the police, there is something DRASTICALLY WRONG with your policing system.

Cops work FOR US they do not RULE us.

When did cops get like this?

Seems the past 20 years they have got worse and worse and the publics attitude and respect drops, increasing the speed and lengths cops go to to assert their 'power'.

Judges dont walk down the street flexing their power do they?

reply to post by ATSmediaPRO

There's no way of knowing if that video isn't just a spoof or a real police action. All it does is increase tensions between the citizenry and police. Do you have a news source that covered it? If not, then it's more than likely propaganda which you're helping to spread.