A "Wanderer" Speaks Out - Q and A on universal questions

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by jacygirl

 

The moderators took it upon themselves to move it here, and call the OP a joke.

Take that as you will, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it.
Cirque

Indeed. That's like a bent cop putting a healthy young man in the mental ward for offering his honest & humble understandings of life & the universe just because they don't agree with what's being said. Rude and disrespectful of ATS staff to say the least. Deny Ignorance my ass. It's more like deny diversity of opinion around here these days

In any case, I had a bunch of questions to ask your opinion on OP, but to my own genuine surprise I found them already asked by other members. I cannot even begin to express how exciting that is for me given the journey that led me (and of course all of us) here to this moment right now. So much has changed in such a short period of time for myself and so many others that I now understand that anything is possible, and miracles do happen. In fact, they never stop. We just find ways to avoid acknowledging them when it suits us. And that’s perfectly fine. But perhaps one should pay closer attention to the Universe at work around us before claiming that life is anything but magical (despite it also being occasionally terrifying – but of course, it can be both!)


Peace & love. And respect

Take it easy wanderers. Or don’t take it at all!



P.S. Here’s a song I wrote just for You many weeks ago! How appropriate.




(And on that note, I remember my question – which is actually another member’s whose name escapes me – but I didn’t see you answer it yet. Can you perhaps explain beyond the obvious why music is such a profound medium for creative expression amongst (I assume) most sentient beings? Why does it move people so effectively do you think? I've been a musician for 15 years and I haven't got a clue. I just know what it feels like!)

Thanks brother! Keep up the good work. Someone's gotta do it

reply to post by TheAnarchist


well done my friend..
well done..

reply to post by BrotherOfSorrow


OP, I have three questions.

1. In four sentences or less, could you provide a brief description of what your "truth" is, and what it purports to do/achieve?

1. What separates you from the hundreds of other people who claim to "hold the truth" but can't prove it?

2. Why can't you provide evidence of your "truth" via scientific methodology?

How can one have free will if everything happens for a reason? Aren't you 'forced' into things rather than 'choosing'? It would then only be an illusion of choice.?

Originally posted by PuterMan
Good luck with your wanderings, and you may 'enlighten' some. I will not be one of them as I prefer facts founded on reality.

The sort of facts founded on reality that I perceive you to be referring to would have been entirely different in 100AD than they were in 1700AD than they were in 1900AD than they were in 2000AD than they will be in 2030AD.

Sounds like confusion to me.

One can read the Tao Te Ching and see that it holds as steady now as it did when it was first assembled. It too contains facts founded on reality, but a reality that doesn't found itself on such a dramatically shifting foundation that is mostly interested with "tinkering".

Edit to add: I love tinkering.

My grandad always told me never trust anyone trying to tell you the truth in these matters because no man can know the truth and those truth sellers always have a hidden agenda.
Wise old fella he was and I will take his advice once again.
Nice try OP but no cigar.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
I am only looking for the way you perceive the universe, as that is as much as any of us are capable of doing. In this way, I am not looking to learn from you, I am looking to learn about you.

This statement is one of the most valuable ones on offer in here.

It's so simple, yet extremely overlooked.

It is sometimes hard to express just how beneficial operating this way is versus "one or the other" methods more consistently put on display... sometimes still including myself in spite of having your stated stance as my foundation of thinking, observing, and exploring.

Danke for bringing it front and center!

reply to post by ErgoTheEgo


Thank you for even noticing the difference in the first place! Thats encouraging.

The more we learn about each other, the more we learn about the universe and ourselves.

I really do feel the best language we have to communicate it is the scientific process, but it seems that so many have been discouraged from it for various reasons. It is too bad that so many feel competition can only be carried out with destruction and domination to "win," but that limits our progress so definitively... When we compete with construction and encouragement, there is no limit to the heights we can reach together.

I have found very, very few who are willing to do so. Its all "DESTROY DESTROY DESTROY," followed inevitably by "COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN." Oh well..

I hope the OP doesnt just leave this thread, who cares where it is? I think that how we communicate with one another is just as important as the content we are trying to communicate. "Where" that happens is irrelevant.

We can have a profound discussion through jokes or equations. The only requirement is participation.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
I really do feel the best language we have to communicate it is the scientific process, but it seems that so many have been discouraged from it for various reasons.

The scientific process has been divided and conquered by conflating the process with the conclusions we form while using the process.

The conclusions are our best descriptions of what we're observing via the process. Some of these conclusions appear reliable and we use them to build things for long periods of time... yet we still find out they are "wrong" despite being "useful".

The process is solid and reliable, our conclusions are not, yet we can observe an entire culture right now that has little genuine experience or understanding of putting the process into play and instead are harvesting conclusions as a stand in for the process.

I agree that the thread being moved into this forum has no bearing on the potential value of communication and understanding available... especially when the participation is done in good nature and humor versus tearing down.

Understanding 5 other people's perspectives gives 5 additional measurements to build conclusions from versus understanding 1 person identified as authoritative. Which one is more scientific? I'm ok with people choosing to be an audience, but do shrug when one claims to be grounding understanding in science without applying the process to the filtering of data (sources/perspectives) choosen to build those understandings from.

Good to see you on my recent layover.

Originally posted by ErgoTheEgo
The scientific process has been divided and conquered by conflating the process with the conclusions we form while using the process.

The conclusions are our best descriptions of what we're observing via the process. Some of these conclusions appear reliable and we use them to build things for long periods of time... yet we still find out they are "wrong" despite being "useful".

The process is solid and reliable, our conclusions are not, yet we can observe an entire culture right now that has little genuine experience or understanding of putting the process into play and instead are harvesting conclusions as a stand in for the process.

I really find it interesting that something which was supposed to limit subjectivity and personal bias is now used specifically to reinforce it!

All we do with the scientific process is build steps to reach greater heights, but our cultural story is to destroy the steps that others have built. It doesnt really synergize at all.

Then, we have so much "appeal to authority" where, as you say, an entire culture is based on supporting conclusions rather than the process that gave birth to those conclusions. I do not think it is a coincidence that gating mechanisms have been put into place in everything from the academic to financial. All of the "conclusions" come from those authorized to give them. But, it is a process that is open to each and every one of us! If only we would participate...

I think Open Source culture is the closest thing we have right now to a true scientific endeavor.

Understanding 5 other people's perspectives gives 5 additional measurements to build conclusions from versus understanding 1 person identified as authoritative. Which one is more scientific? I'm ok with people choosing to be an audience, but do shrug when one claims to be grounding understanding in science without applying the process to the filtering of data (sources/perspectives) choosen to build those understandings from.

In this way, the industry of science has very much become like the industry of religion. Its quite interesting. I think the only meaningful way to institutionalize knowledge and understanding is if it is freely available to all. But methods like planned obsolescence and "road maps" are directly in opposition to the core of what they propose to support (science).

If only the general public were encouraged to become scientists themselves...

Good to see you on my recent layover.

*Looks at join date*

You are one tricky S.O.B.!!

Hello brotherofsorrow,
Thank you for starting this thread and sharing your insights with us.

You mentioned earlier about meditation from a young age as being helpful in 'breaking through the veil' so to speak. I did not start early bit have been on this path awhile. I have had some success but have found that usually after a profound spiritual experience, I cannot 'find my way back' to that state, no matter what I try. I have often wondered if it is my higher self blocking me as you mentioned, but, if so, why does it continue? Why are we blocked from only trying to learn how to help and learning how to be our best selves?

And.. a question I had for Initiate that did not get answered was; What exactly is Dark Energy? I feel like it is part of the black hole and creation cycle but can't really grasp the meaning.

Thanks for your time and energy.

You always learn 'from' by learning 'about'.

I don't often chime in on these kind of threads, and I know why I don't. I generally just read them and smile.

Here's my intake on things anyway. We get a thread like this every week or so. Well lettered people who just feel the urge to impart some wisdom to the crowd.

And I can't help wondering why all these people who claim to be so wise and knowledgeable about the true nature of life and death can't ever be honest. You're not honest with other people, because you're not being honest with yourselves.

Truth is, you don't know squat. No-one does.

That's wisdom. Admitting that we are puny, primitive and quite innadequate beings who live for eighty odd years thanks to modern medecine, and who die as knowledgeable about the great mysteries of the universe as we were when we were born.

Thing is, we are kind of smart, compared say, to a bacteria, and the whole dying part at the end scares us $hitless because we are cursed with enough brains to know that dying probably sucks. So when a well lettered guy comes in and tells us he knows it all, well, people just want to believe. Me included.

And then my brain kicks in. The same old brain that's scared $hitless of dying, but that has the honesty to admit that fact. And while it would be nice to believe in aura and energy and fairies, and all the rest of that mystical mumbo-jumbo, I just can't help remembering where the message is coming from. It's coming from another dude, who's got eighty years just like me, who's brain can trick itself into a belief system, just like me, and who is ultimately clueless, just like me.

Everyone has their own brand of painkillers, the ones that allow us to come to terms with the fear of death, because that is what this is all about. So good for you op, if you managed to make yourself believe that you hold answers or *the truth* or whatever.

The real *truth*, the one you guys never talk about, is that their is no *truth*.The universe is so vast and complex that believing in any kind purpose for our tiny, insignificant selves falls in somewhere between magical thinking and self-absorbtion. We are not important, we are simply moderately complex life-forms doing what nature hardwired us to do : to live.

So I'll stay scared, but I'll leave the lullabies to people who need a make believe purpose to keep on drawing their next breath.

Is it possible to get an explanation from the moderator as to why this thread has been improperly categorized in "Jokes, Puns, and Pranks" and not categorized in "Philosophy and Metaphysics" as it should be?

Given that ATS is being supplied FREE slave labor by its members, you'd think they'd offer their virtual work force a little more respect than this.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
I really find it interesting that something which was supposed to limit subjectivity and personal bias is now used specifically to reinforce it!

I have nothing of additional value to add to your comments.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
I think Open Source culture is the closest thing we have right now to a true scientific endeavor.

Agreed... and it is worth noting how well it survives despite significant effort to crush it in favor of artificially elevated "alternatives". It is impressive to me how much worship can be applied to certain "heroes" of science while turning a complete blind eye to the sort of people they were and the sort of person they would resemble today.

Originally posted by Serdgiam
*Looks at join date*

You are one tricky S.O.B.!!

More like adapting to my different variations of exploration and expression.

Originally posted by Ismail
Truth is, you don't know squat. No-one does.

Originally posted by Ismail
That's wisdom. Admitting that we are puny, primitive and quite innadequate beings who live for eighty odd years thanks to modern medecine, and who die as knowledgeable about the great mysteries of the universe as we were when we were born.

Wait... which is it?

You don't know squat... Or you know what wisdom is and we really are?

reply to post by ErgoTheEgo


The only truth is that there is no truth.

The only wisdom is that there is no wisdom.

For an enlightened being you seem to be struggling hard with philosophy.

reply to post by fenson76

So you have never been confused in your whole life? hmm, ok. He also stated that ATS was not the as confused so it looks like you are picking and editing full context quotes.

No, I have not been confused in my life, but of course that might depend upon what you call confused. There have been times when it has been difficult to weigh up between several alternatives, but that is not confusion merely decision making.

No I was not picking and editing full context quotes but as you choose to believe so shall you believe. I think BOS and I actually understand each other as well as we can given the brief contact on this thread.

reply to post by TheAnarchist

Can you perhaps explain beyond the obvious why music is such a profound medium for creative expression amongst (I assume) most sentient beings? Why does it move people so effectively do you think? I've been a musician for 15 years and I haven't got a clue. I just know what it feels like!)

First may I say - excellent work.

You know, and I am probably wrong, but why not the obvious? By this I assume you mean the appeal of the music, which we receive as vibrations. That surely IS the key? If the music resonates with you you feel it and you feel it trigger a response in you that is pure emotion.

I have heard music described as mathematics. I know nothing of that, but certain sounds can have very heavy effect on people.

The uilleann pipes for me are the MOST intense sound I know. They make me weep uncontrollably. I can't explain it and I can't control it. I can even tell if the pipes are in amongst other instruments purely by the effect upon me, even if others cannot distinguish them in the mix.

As I have said in this thread my world is one of fact and reason and this response is a most unreasonable one so I do not normally talk about it. Accompanying is the picture in the mind of flying over tongues of land jutting into the sea, with the sun on the right hand side and darkness on the left. It looks like Kerry, not that I have ever seen it from the air, and it feel like sunset, but after a year or two I realised that if this was Kerry it was actually sunrise based on the view and my travel direction over it.

It is the uncontrollable weeping that really gets me. I try and avoid the pipes as much as possible.

And before you ask, other bagpipes don't do it to me - ONLY the uilleann pipes.

Vibrations!

reply to post by ErgoTheEgo


Confusion only arises if you allow uncertainty to become indecision. There is no confusion if your actions are decisive even if they are wrong.

I used to be indecisive, now I am not so sure