US plans to bring Iran oil exports down to zero (No, Seriously, read this)

Whew, what a day! LOL. I got my tractor-trailor totaled by a straight truck on I-5 in Everett, Washington.

Not my fault and no one was injured, thank goodness.

Many posts with different views on the U.S. and some assumptions on my view that are mistaken. I'm not the one who raised the China issue regarding Iran and was asked for a standard of the assessment of China's over rating.

I provided one. It also was a window into others who feel similarly.

I absolutely refute the view that the U.S. is trying to be the "boss" of the world and frankly, most of the U.S. citizens that are "conservative" in their views, couldn't care less about being the boss of the world. Fact.

Iran is, in fact, a line drawn in the sand to stop the domino effect of nuclear proliferation. No more, no less.

Not a single middle-east/ Muslim nation has come out in support of Iran's position. Not one.

Russia led to China, who led to India, who led to Pakistan. Now Iran. That forces the Saudis and anyone else who can scrape up the money to develop/purchase nukes.

A nuked up middle east is a time bomb with a very short fuse. One only has to look at Egypt and Iraq to see the potential.

Even the intervention in Libya and Egypt was British instigated and led, They're the ones who screwed up the middle east in the first place after WWI with the breakup of the Ottoman Empire. Fact.

The so-called American Corporations are in fact now international and only pay lip-service to any American loyalties. There are very few solidly U.S. companies left. Boeing, Lockheed Martin and that ilk. The rest? International in goals, profit and motivation. IMHO.

As far as China goes, I do not view them as a threat to the U.S. militarily or economically.

Militarily, they are overwhelmingly outmatched in every possible scenario except manpower and invasion is obviously out of the question.( as is invasion of the U.S. or an external invasion of the EU or even India!

China is flat out, incapable of defending oil tankers against the U.S. .If you think otherwise, you are ignorant of military capabilities.

The head of all the Chinese militaries was taken on a tour of select, top-secret bases in the U.S. and shown some of the those capabilities. This happened about a year ago. After completing that tour, that same commander stated publically the China was incapable of matching U.S. military technology.

The near weekly "sabre rattling" by China towards the U.S. has ceased. They now alternate their "wrath" between Japan, Taiwan and other various neighbors about useless islands in the region.

Next, the "economies" of China, and India for that matter, wouldn't be at their current levels without the U.S.. Both militarily, which provided the stability, world-wide, that allowed their entry into the world market-place and economically as a major consumer.

The idea that the U.S. is motivated by wanting to be the world's boss is, IMO, nothing more than a "boogie man" mentality.

The world economy is built of a house of cards. Any one of those cards collapsing will cause the rest to fall.

The euro-zone is the most likely to start the domino effect. The U.S. is second.

China, on the other hand, if they collapse, the reverse is probably true. That manufacturing would largely return to the west and bolster their economies.

Iran is definitely a potential disaster waiting to happen. Yet, virtually all the E.U. supports the embargos, thanks to the missile development by Iran, and they WILL be blocked from developing nuclear weapons. "Fair" or not.

U.S. attention is mostly on internal matters and has been for a few years now. There are few exceptions to this.

Iran is one of them.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


LOL, an outright lie??

Lets see, 36 or is it 37 different languages in "China". Not "dialects", languages. An enforced coalition that simmers with resentment at the 5% that is prospering from their "economy".

Lets see the outlying areas of China are self-reliant and the Americans aren't? You obviously haven't travelled the U.S. rural areas or else it's you who is the "liar".

I have. In my travels, I have been to all 50 states and can tell you that the U.S. is first and foremost a food producing monster...even California!! It's number one industry.

These guys fix their own cars,(or tractors) do things the way their fathers and grandfathers did and will out self-reliant anyone I've ever met. My grandparents made soap from animal fat.( I don't, LOL)

You must watch too many Hollywood movies

Food supplies in the major U.S. cities, nationally are at about a 3 day supply.3 DAYS!!! The rural areas, on the other hand, months. The vast majority of the U.S. is rural.

As far as China goes, personally, I could care less what they do or don't do.

Sorry, but as most people outside the U.S. usually do, you completely underestimate the U.S., it's staying power and ability to flat out survive.

By the way, I was born in Canada and am a 25 year resident of the U.S. and at 63 years of age, I some idea, empirically observed, of what I'm talking about.

The non-proliferation treaty is a failure.

Iran will not be permitted to develop nuclear weapons. Fair? Hypocritical? Lament all your heart out. That's the way it is. Deal with it.

reply to post by nwtrucker


I am very well informed about all the things that you write, and well travelled within the USA.

I am afraid you do not get it.

It is this very attitude that you have is the cause of trouble.

It is true that India exports services and goods to the USA in excess of imports. This is due to India's competitiveness in certain fields, and the free trade as envisaged under WTO.

The United States greatly benefits from WTO by getting goods and services at lower prices than can be produced domestically.

The USA can stop the imports anyday by changing the policy. India does not have any big leverage over Washington DC. So it should be clear what ever USA does is due to its own policies (driven by greed).

--------

The Iran's issue is very clear. It is a war now.
The issue has gone far beyond the nuclear question.
We are waiting for the fireworks to start.
The embargo is a wartime action.

What happens and who wins is in the womb of time. I do not think you have the smarts to see the future.

reply to post by GargIndia


GargIndia, driven by greed? Fine. Then, of course, India is driven by some altruistic goals and not greed?

India doesn't have a ruling class? A GREEDY ruling class? Different than China's (or anyone else's by name only)? I say it's you who is deluding yourself.

If you consider me "the" problem, then I say to you GOOD!

I, for one, don't buy into your holier than thou, hate filled, drivel. If you are as "well travelled" in the U.S.( other than in some jet flying to some other large city) as you say, then you'd know better.

People are no different in your country than any other, including the U.S.. The only difference is the magnitude, the power.

The U.S. may no longer be the leader it once was but you can take this to the bank that there is nothing, zip, nada that even suggests that China OR India will ever attain the level that the U.S. has enjoyed!

Otherwise, I wish you and yours well.

reply to post by nwtrucker


I have travelled by car to a lot of places in the USA (and Canada) as I wanted to see the real America.

India and China are much older than USA. All civilizations go through highs and lows. It just so happens that India's civilization went through its lows in the last 1000 years. I have no delusions about either India or China. My scope of study is vast and I see factors far beyond your understanding.

There is nothing great about America. It may seem so for you because your viewpoint is limited. Only an outsider can see the real thing.

The preponderance of war(violence) in the minds of people is what is taking this planet to the brink. Even pretensions of justice, equality and truth have been jettisoned.

USA has embarked on a certain path that is full of dangers - for itself and for the rest of mankind. USA has the capability to harm a lot of people due to its extensive military capability. All reasonable people in this world understand that. However that does not mean whatever USA does becomes noble or correct.

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

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I have no idea why I'm supposed to be impressed that someone can make soap out of animal fat. Even I know how to do that. You can buy lye to do it or extract it from ash but that is a longer process which will not yield the best results. It's soap none the less. I also make my own laundry detergent out of fels naptha to save money and make a more concentrated laundry detergent, it can also be done with homemade soap... so what?

I also know a few things about growing food... & that people around here think nothing can be grown in this acidic soil because they don't understand that everything that grows around here needs to be tolerant to leeched out aluminum.

So what?.. That doesn't mean I have a crop... because I don't own farm land.

I live in a rural area and the fields that are around here... are mostly big agriculture endeavors and not open to the local farmers market... which is actually kind of small.

You obviously don't understand what has been going on with agriculture in America. Yes, some have fought against it and try to maintain ways of living off the land... and good for them. I totally encourage that, but it is the exception, not the rule.

You need to understand that in many places of the world, people have maintained this self sufficiency all along... never lost it, while America built big corporate supermarket chains and went crazy with regulation. Now we have food items that are hardly even food anymore and to know a local farmer is rare. Some try to plant gardens here and there but they could not sustain them for long and if a crisis hit, and people realized "HEY... We need to grow some food!" They would still be starving before their crops came in.

Now if you don't like these facts being pointed out to you, then perhaps you shouldn't have come in here with such an attitude of insisting that the Chinese cannot sustain themselves and are about to suffer a tragic national collapse, because they do have considerable resources in their land and are in general, very resourceful people in practice.

It is true that a lot of food is grown in the US... a lot, but it is also highly controlled.
If the US had a collapse, we would have to retake land and machinery to get back agricultural control. I hope you are prepared for that because you don't strike me as the type who can live off bean sprouts. As a matter of fact, no matter how you tout your traditional resourcefulness, I seriously doubt you'd know what was edible for you on a walk through the woods.... unless you had a gun in your hand and saw a moving target. Good luck on not collectively making wildlife extinct if the SHTF. Martial law would probably outlaw hunting at that point anyway.

It's not that America does not grow food... or does not have the ability to grow food. You missed the point entirely. It is that Americans are detached from their own resources through corporate control. There is also considerable control in China but it is not all encompassing in China like it is the states. There is a deliberate reason our government does this... and if you don't see that, well, I'm sorry for you.

There are a lot of things you don't seem to see- that the Iranian nuclear threat is a lie.
They probably already have a few & no one is going to be able to ultimately stop them from making more for themselves. This is about the fact that decades ago, Iran took back control of their own oil out of the hands of the English & US oil companies. And they so obviously can't stand it because it throws a wrench in their global resource control. Now they cannot control how much oil China & Russia can obtain because every time the East makes a gain, more jump on board thinking big Eastern powers can protect them, which is what the propaganda you have submitted is all about. Cult of personality swaying trust to the West NOT letting it go East.

I'm not concerned about who you claim to be or your credentials. Please know that they mean nothing to me and that what stands out most is your intent on spreading what the MSM also spreads. I don't care who you are... all I know is that you don't sound very observant to me or are simply waving that American pride around for whatever reason. I'm sorry that you do not desire to see this country do better and stop getting itself into trouble... because the US military might is not very impressive considering they couldn't establish control in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Some people just have to learn the hard way, I'm afraid... and I'm sorry that you feel the need to endanger your own fellow Americans by not feeling inclined to stand up to this government and are going to let the status quo just tell you what to think. It may be comfortable for you now, so just keep hoping it stays that despite all the US chest thumping going on

reply to post by GargIndia


Post Script. The WTO? If I had my druthers, the U.S. would withdraw from this "organization" which not only hasn't the U.S. received "benefit" from, but in fact have suffered as a result of this membership.

Only the U.N. stands in lower regard than the WTO in this part of the world.

Smarts? Well, I fear the same result as you. I fear far more the results of a U.S. capitulation,

F

You will certainly realize an undeniable and inconvenient truth about our world, who promotes war and pestilence for profit, and what controls most nations.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Sigh, the soap comment was my grandparents who emigrated to Canada and there was no other solution.

I don't disagree with your agriculture take either. That wasn't the subject of this thread. Iran and sanctions were.

If it's a "lie" then why aren't the rest of the region's nations backing Iran up?? Why is the E.U. supporting those sanctions?? If it's a lie, PROVE IT. Back up your statement. If Iran already has nukes, Israel would know about it and already acted. Hello?

On your agricultural take, I have utter contempt for the ADMs and Nestles of the world.

What you seem to forget is while they are corporately owned the workers aren't. Corporate ownership is a paper fact, not a physical imposition...easily, EASILY taken over. Martial law?? LMAO. Half the troops would desert to take care of the own and the rest would face around 300 million weapons in civilian hands.

Not to mention the Texas's, the Utahs, the Wyomings that would secede instantly from the union with many following almost immediately.

Sorry, food wouldn't be an issue outside the over-populated cities and states. A little culling, so to speak, probably wouldn't hurt either....

reply to post by GargIndia


Again , not much disagreement from me about the goings on with the U.S. gov't. However, it does not automatically mean all U.S. moves are evil or bad either.

You have not answered the points I made about the lack of support for Iran's position, instead you attack the U.S.

I am Canadian born. I have had an outsider's view of the U.S..

If you think there is nothing great about the U.S. then either you suffered from preconceived Indian bias or aren't as perceptive as you might think.

I know the greatness of America. That epiphany occurred about seven years into my residency,( I had to shed my Canadian programing) and view it newly.

You haven't seen it. That's your loss, not mine.

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

.....

edit on 3-8-2013 by nwtrucker because: spelling error

In my rural neighborhood of dozens of houses there is not 1 hand crank water pump. They are all electric. They are controlled by the same grid that connects the majority of us to a similar fate if the system in this country were to collapse. Lack of water can kill in a matter of days & it goes without saying that plants need it to grown when there is a dry spell that could wither up a crop.

To get any kind of produce, if I were allowed by the owner of that field, I would still have to walk miles probably to get only a handful of cucumbers because there would be no way to get gas.

There are diesel vehicles around but most are fleet & owned by companies with their own issues in the event of a crisis. Most people do not know how to make biodiesel if they happen to own a diesel. Despite the fact that diesels could be very useful in situations like that... diesel mechanics are not the easiest thing to come by & schools for diesel mechanics are much more rare than regular auto mechanics. This is no coincidence despite the fact that we are supposed to be exploring alternative fuel. Industry machinery is often diesel but again... look closely at how they market industry to us. Industry is controlled.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of workers to do the job, but they have to be allowed to do that job & again, growing food takes time. The government has even taken to controlling seeds we need to grow that food. They have a very elaborate reason to do this... and 'll explain.

I do not agree that all would turn against the govt & stick beside the people because there would be so many people around any person who might know how to survive that DON'T know how to survive... those people will have more than they can handle just trying to provide for their immediate families. The military & police will be sold a story that help is on the way for all & it is best to stick to the plan & keep trying to re-establish order until the situation goes back to normal... & if this government cannot get compliance, there is no doubt in my mind that they would stage an outside attack making people... people just like you... believe that the threat is not right here inside our borders working against the people. Those people will think that the best way to help the people is to keep them under control until the situation gets better... when it is the government that controls that grid & all the things I've mentioned.

So you might ask... Why would they do this?

The first thing they would do is expand their recruitment & gather those of combat age to go protect their friends & families back home against an outside threat that they have antagonized because the gov DESPERATELY needs our protection.

And they will go... because the majority is just like you. Believing in the pride of America to the point of a great cost of it's people.

All the while the govt will be holding all those strings in order to force compliance.

We do NOT want to go into the pacific & start a bunch of crap with China. We do NOT.

We couldn't even defeat Vietnam after attacking them with Napalm & enough agent orange that was meant to destroy 19 million acres of jungle.

So tell me how you think it is a good idea to poke a stick at China & go flaunt some weapons & troops in the pacific? Tell me how you think this is wise simply because you are proud of the flag?
Do you want to be in that situation? Do you want recruiters coming around to gather up the young people in your community? Why are they recruiting more people to South Korea? Tell me. Why are they expanding troop presence in the Philippines & elsewhere in the pacific? Do you like the taste of your pride flavored with bitterness of loss? Does it make the taste stronger?

The proof of the US grudge against Iran is decades of history. You have to want to know the truth enough to read history on your own. I will continue to post examples of the US poking at Irans economy & hurting any of it's partners which will NOT make them cease their nuclear program because these people are not afraid. They are too angry to be afraid because they haven't had the luxury of forgetting history... like we have. All most of us seem to know anymore is what's on cable TV to keep us distracted.

Some middle eastern countries are directly in the pockets of the west, but that is mostly the super rich leaderships & not the people who are tightly controlled, like in Saudi Arabia, where Chevron got started in the 30s & do you even need to ask why the EU is backing this? The EU is probably the biggest supporter of the oil wars over anyone because they have to buy a lot of their gases from Russia who they don't want to see having MORE control over their CRIMINAL NECKS.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Ok. each region has it's own issues regarding survival. Yours is water. Fuel is everyone's. Where I live water isn't an issue. In the N.W. on the coast.

We run about a 6 month food reserve, Wood stove in storage. Nowhere near enough done, but a start. I will leave the other aspects unsaid.

We have a few "outs". One on an Island another in Canada...up north.

Locally, we have two refineries and I can assure you the workers will control the fuel distribution, not anyone else...as long as the crude arrives...

I completely disagree that an aggressive martial law has any chance of working for any length of time. I won't go into details but they should be obvious.

I won't go any further on this general area for obvious reasons.

However, there is an old "saw" you might consider."if you don't believe in something you could end up believing in anything."

I believe in what the constitution stands for, it's ideals and the reasoning behind them. There are many that also believe in them. I prefer being associated with like minded individuals.

I believe there is still a chance some form of that original group can survive and even flourish.

I'm fully aware of British screw-ups that led to the mid-east mess. I'm aware of the acts by both sides, Iran and the U.S.. I will NOT ignore their acts like "you" apparently do.

Assuming no disaster before 2020, projections are that the U.S. will be as big an exporter of crude as the Saudis and Russia. Our reserves are higher than both!

Oil, and the control of it is nowhere near the importance of say the 1970s.

There is nowhere else on this miserable planet I'd rather live than here. About 1 million (legal) immigrants per year seem to agree with that assessment.

Me and mine take care of our own food quality, and the like.

Iran? They can "go forth and multiply". But without nukes!

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

...

I don't ignore what other countries do, but that's not what my intent is in this thread.

yes I do believe Iran has a right to be pissed, as does Palestine, as does Syria, as does Lebanon.

With every atrocity the US has committed, it has no right to tell Iran it can't have nukes to protect itself when it is constantly being threatened. It's unstable enemies have plenty of nukes and this only proves the US is a hypocrite. To keep messing with them is not going to make you any safer in this country from a world full of angry people and that is the fantasy you hold that causes you to promote making the problem that much bigger.

As for martial law not being effective. That would be possible if people would stand up to crimes this country is committing. That is exactly my point but you are arguing AGAINST standing up to it... so that theory of standing up against martial law will not work for your argument.

That's what this thread was made for and you are promoting the opposite... so you will seriously have to switch gears if martial law takes place and THEN decide to stop making excuses for them. You will not prevent martial law with force AFTER the fact. You have to speak out against what the US does before it ever happens to show we will not comply... or you will not ever be taken seriously by me.

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Oh, well.....That's your view of it, I suppose. So what do you do to "stand up to it"?

Iran? Sorry. A nuclear Iran will result in nuclear war sooner than later, with Israel. Now that would be an atrocity, in my books.

The U.S. is the leader in preventing that from occurring.

How I deal with the domestic issues is my business. I surely won't sleep any differently whether you take or anyone else takes my "seriously".