A Physicist Explains Why Scientists Won't Discuss UFOs

Originally posted by UncleVinnys
I just WISH the scientific method were applied to UFOs!
Instead we have people offering a result even BEFORE they do any research.
That is guaranteed to provide false conclusions.

A couple of examples:

Introduction. May thousands of people around the world firmly believe that they have been abducted by alien beings and taken on board spaceships where they have been subjected to painful medical examination.
Method. Given that such accounts are almost certainly untrue, four areas of neuroscience are considered with respect to possible clues that may lead towards a fuller understanding of the alien abduction experience.
(Emphasis added.)

- Holden, Katharine J, and French, Christopher C. (2002). Alien abduction experiences: Some clues from neuropsychology and neuropsychology. University of London, UK.
-

McNally investigated people who had memories that were clearly fake – namely, memories of alien abductions.
Mary Beckman (2003). Memories of Space Alien Abduction. Science Now, 2/17/2003.
-

The most likely explanation for alien abductions is sleep paralysis and hypnopompic hallucinations.
Shermer, Michael (2005). Abducted! Scientific American, February, 2005.

So you're saying they haven't considered the possibility that some abductions may be factual, so their research is void. Is that right?

Originally posted by UncleVinnys
I just WISH the scientific method were applied to UFOs!
Instead we have people offering a result even BEFORE they do any research.
That is guaranteed to provide false conclusions.

A couple of examples:

Introduction. May thousands of people around the world firmly believe that they have been abducted by alien beings and taken on board spaceships where they have been subjected to painful medical examination.
Method. Given that such accounts are almost certainly untrue, four areas of neuroscience are considered with respect to possible clues that may lead towards a fuller understanding of the alien abduction experience.
(Emphasis added.)

- Holden, Katharine J, and French, Christopher C. (2002). Alien abduction experiences: Some clues from neuropsychology and neuropsychology. University of London, UK.
-

McNally investigated people who had memories that were clearly fake – namely, memories of alien abductions.
Mary Beckman (2003). Memories of Space Alien Abduction. Science Now, 2/17/2003.
-

The most likely explanation for alien abductions is sleep paralysis and hypnopompic hallucinations.
Shermer, Michael (2005). Abducted! Scientific American, February, 2005.

And what of those cases investigated by the late and much respected Dr John Mack, a well renowned psychiatrist who interviewed and held various counselling sessions with hundreds of people claiming encounters , he found that in the majority of his subjects they were to him describing real events , not hallucinations, waking dreams, mental health issues,nor did he find any evidence of neuropsychology and neuropsychology and sleep paralysis and hypnopompic hallucinations.. or even frontal lobe epilepsy.

All his case histories cannot be over looked,ignored or not included in any debate on the origins of what his subjects were describing to him. There are cases of people with nasal intrusions who have had no medical history of ever having nasal surgery, Dr Mack exposed and presented in a credible scientific way a real ongoing unknown reality engaging with a wide cross section of people , an unknown origin that seems alien and real, that his investigations manifested such unknowns clearly really bugged a section of the scientific community and i am not surprised that he and his investigations are often ignored by those citing hallucinations, waking dreams, mental health issues,nor did he find any evidence of neuropsychology and neuropsychology and sleep paralysis and hypnopompic hallucinations.. or even frontal lobe epilepsy for every one claiming contact with unknown visitors. Dr Macks work deserves a lot more attention than it does on the subject of alien abductions.

Some people might be content in sleep walking up that particular garden path but not me, if there is one ounce of credible evidence pointing to a lion in the jungle i ant going to ignore it.

reply to post by Logarock

There is really nothing in the psychological field as a discipline that qualifies it as something that could be applied to every UFO case study. You want to bring in a shrink and have a look at Barney Hill well fine. But any number of air force pilots over the years......psychology is going to be about useless in those cases.

Psychology thinks it can show up on any occasion. It doesn't really want to lend so much anymore as it has come to love its position as interpreter of all things.

I think there is a complete lack of understanding of what is going on physically, emotionally and perceptually with the majority of reports. For instance, more often then not, intense fear is commonly reported along with sightings. What kind of perceptual distortions are associated with rushes of adrenaline?

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by Logarock

 

There is really nothing in the psychological field as a discipline that qualifies it as something that could be applied to every UFO case study. You want to bring in a shrink and have a look at Barney Hill well fine. But any number of air force pilots over the years......psychology is going to be about useless in those cases.

Psychology thinks it can show up on any occasion. It doesn't really want to lend so much anymore as it has come to love its position as interpreter of all things.

I think what is missing is a complete lack of understanding of what is going on physically, emotionally and perceptually with the majority of reports. For instance, more often then not, intense fear is commonly reported along with sightings. What kind of perceptual distortions are associated with rushes of adrenaline?

What must be realized is that its the stimuli contained in seeing something out of the ordinary or from the object its self ,that is the primary cause here, that triggers the natural human emotions to something out of the ordinary is what has manifested over the years and what has caused so many credible military witnesses to come forward with their testimonies, it is out of a very human and natural trait , that is the desire to share it with others, that urge is a strong human mind set.

The same can be said of animal reactions in the vicinity of UFO sightings, animals react honestly to stimuli in their immediate surroundings and there are UFO cases were animals have shown great distress or acted out of character.Its what is causing the emotional reactions in people or animals that is the primary concern not what it causes or influences those reporting it.

reply to post by K-PAX-PROT


That is a good point but humans also overreact due to perceiveing something as a threat. Ultimately it's the perception that causes the reaction. The reaction is a release of neurochemistry. Neurochemistry influences perception.

Are not the descriptions of reactions of animals also the perceptions of people?

reply to post by 1questioner


There are several reasons why scientists will not discuss UFO's. Most of them are obvious. Some are seldom brought to the attention of the public (OR THE RESEARCHERS THEMSELVES).

1. There is much speculation that ATIC's study "Project Blue Book," or "Project Sign" (which went by several other names) was itself a hoax. Major Donald Keyhoe, who led the project from its inception for quite a long time frequently claimed that during many of the important UFO panels that were attended (especially during the 60's and 70's) people showed up from an undisclosed agency whose authority superseded all other agencies actively investigating the subject. This agency (possibly MAJESTIC 12) had no need to disclose its name or background. This means that the entire ATIC (Air Tactical Intelligence Command) investigation was itself a smokescreen, unbeknownst to its own members.

2. UFO's are (quite frankly) a very strange phenomenon. The BEST stories are always the strangest. The best scientists (likewise) are convinced that most are, in fact, multidimensional objects which, when penetrating our realities, are just as likely to appear as the "Virgin Mary" as they are a flying saucer. However, there seem to be a number of accounts of clearly SOLID craft, such as was witnessed in the 1973 Hickson/Parker abduction in Pascagoula, Mississippi. Two men were abducted off a pier by strange, vegetable-like creatures which they claimed scanned them with some sort of "electronic eye." It was independently verified that a passing military truck saw the object in the same place during the time of the abduction.

3. Scientists have been so challenged by what appear to be paid debunkers that many are afraid to touch the subject. Men like Philip Klass have made it extremely difficult for anyone to challenge the publicly held views on UFO's due to the fact that public opinion is largely easy to sway. Phil Klass has repeatedly made outlandish claims in the face of science and only a few men (such as James E. McDonald and Stanton Friedman) have been able to consistently offer him a challenge. When it HAS been possible, it is only after literally hundreds of hours of digging for FOIA documents which are not easy to find.

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

So you're saying they haven't considered the possibility that some abductions may be factual, so their research is void. Is that right?

Errrr . . . Not quite.
There are some very respectable neurologists and sleep researchers who can shed light on their field of expertise, such as false memories, sleep studies, and hallucinations. They can and do make legitimate contributions to their field. That does NOT make them experts in cosmology, spirituality, metaphysics, astronomy, exobiology or any other realms where the UFO mystery may be solved. They are guilty of circular reasoning and egocentrism.Just because their studies may expand the understanding of those uncharted areas of human consciousness mentioned above does not give them license to dismiss all the reliable reports of UFO sightings and abductions.

In the end, they are ruled by FEAR.
"These things CANNOT be true - - because it would undo everything ever thought I knew!"

reply to post by UncleVinnys


TRUTH. Any consciousness that is susceptible to fear is going to employ fear to subdue what it considers to be its "enemies." The only truly liberated consciousness is one that is fearless, in the sense that it sees the "everything." It sees the truth...that everything is everything. That when one is liberated from one's fear and can see the reality that every single thing parallels every other thing, that the logical existence of one thing does not imply the logical nonexistence of anything else...one can be a friend to anyone. One has no enemies.

I am not really big on alien abduction cases but the 1973 Hickson/Parker Pascagoula case is quite fascinating and extremely hard to debunk, even by these so-called psychologists.

ATS Link: The Pascagoula Abduction case

Dr. Harder interviews Charles Hickson

Originally posted by K-PAX-PROT




What must be realized is that its the stimuli contained in seeing something out of the ordinary or from the object its self ,that is the primary cause here, that triggers the natural human emotions to something out of the ordinary is what has manifested over the years and what has caused so many credible military witnesses to come forward with their testimonies, it is out of a very human and natural trait , that is the desire to share it with others, that urge is a strong human mind set.

The same can be said of animal reactions in the vicinity of UFO sightings, animals react honestly to stimuli in their immediate surroundings and there are UFO cases were animals have shown great distress or acted out of character.Its what is causing the emotional reactions in people or animals that is the primary concern not what it causes or influences those reporting it.

edit on 15/07/2010 by K-PAX-PROT because: (no reason given)

Then the animals and humans are picking up something in their natural sensory perception, which we don't understand anyway, that they are not able to comprehend. "Vibes" as it were. What would your ideas be?

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by Logarock

 

There is really nothing in the psychological field as a discipline that qualifies it as something that could be applied to every UFO case study. You want to bring in a shrink and have a look at Barney Hill well fine. But any number of air force pilots over the years......psychology is going to be about useless in those cases.

Psychology thinks it can show up on any occasion. It doesn't really want to lend so much anymore as it has come to love its position as interpreter of all things.

I think there is a complete lack of understanding of what is going on physically, emotionally and perceptually with the majority of reports. For instance, more often then not, intense fear is commonly reported along with sightings. What kind of perceptual distortions are associated with rushes of adrenaline?

edit on 24-7-2013 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)

Maybe its not a distortion but part of an ever operating but not often used safety system that's part of the psyche. It cant simply be the human encountering the unknown. Not taking away the strength of that fear, but in the case of animals we cant say that animals have been preconditioned. Maybe a better case could be made along these line for a lack of preconditioning. Maybe it goes way beyond that to a preprogramed, with knowledge response.

I think Scientist do discuss UFOS, but its not what the people want to hear.

reply to post by interupt42


"42," huh? Interesting number. 6 x 9 = 42.

Another mad crank joins the discussion. Proves the point of the thread I guess.

reply to post by 1questioner


"Scientists need to get back to using the scientific method to study things that are unknown and unusual"

AMEN. And on that note, so does ATS. Respect is key to understanding!

It's funny because you always hear scientists don't want to discuss UFOs, but when you get get down to the actual institutions and the actual people, they don't mind discussing anything. The only people or thing that is telling people scientists don't want to discuss UFOs is the general media. So again as always in UFOlogy it comes down to people believing in one organization with a history for lying over the 100s of creditable experts involved with the real subject, i.e., Roswell.

This was a good post but should have been titled 'why 'some' scientists won't discuss UFOs as the following quotes show, many scientists are in fact interested in UFOs:

"The least improbable explanation is that these things are artificial and controlled. . .my opinion for some time has been that they have an extraterrestrial origin."
-Dr. Maurice Biot, aerodynamicist and mathematical physicist.

Werner Von Braun, rocket scientist who was instrumental in the development of Nazi Germany's V2 rocket and later, the American space program.
"We find ourselves faced by powers which are far stronger than we had hitherto assumed, and whose base is at present unknown to us. More I cannot say at present. We are now engaged in entering into closer contact with those powers, and in six or nine months time it may be possible to speak with some precision on the matter." --This comment comes from "News Europa" Jan. 1959 and refers to mysterious events during the re-entry phase of the Juno 2 rocket during a test flight.
"...it is as impossible to confirm them (UFOs) in the present as it will be to deny them in the future." --In a comment to Nasa scientist, Clark McClelland

"The discs use a means of propulsion different from ours. There is no other possible explanation. Flying saucers come from another world."
-Louis Breguet, French aircraft designer and manufacturer.
"What I found [in doing research for the book Project Delta] was compelling evidence to claim that most of these aerial objects far exceeded the terrestrial technology of the era in which they were seen. I was forced to conclude that there is a great likelihood that Earth is being visited by highly advanced aerospace vehicles under highly 'intelligent' control indeed."
-Dr. Richard F. Haines, retired NASA senior research scientist at Ames Research Center and the Research Institute for Advanced Computer Science where he worked on the International Space Station.--From the preface of his book, CE-5, 1998.
"Many professional astronomers are convinced that saucers are interplanetary machines."
-Dr. Frank Halstead of the Darling Observatory, Minnesota--1957

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, former Chairman of the Dept. of Astronomy at North Western University and scientific advisor to Project Bluebook from 1952-1969
"When I first got involved in this field, I was particularly skeptical of people who said they had seen UFOs on several occasions and totally incredulous about those who claimed to have been taken aboard one. But I've had to change my mind." --1972
"It reminds me of tthe days of Galileo when he was trying to get people to look at the sun spots. They would say that the sun is a symbol of God; God is perfect; therefore the sun is perfect; therefore spots cannot exist: therefore there is no point in looking." --Hynek in Newsweek, Nov. 21, 1977, p. 97
"I was there at [Project] Bluebook and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, not to rock the boat... Whenever a case happened that they coud explain--which was quite a few--they made a point of that, and let that out to the media. . .Cases that were very difficult to explain, they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from them. They had a job to do, rightfully or wrongfully, to keep the public from getting excited." --From a filmed interview. I don't know the date.

"UFO sightings are now so common, the military doesn't have time to worry about them. . .when a UFO appears, they simply ignore it. . .Unconventional targets are ignored because apparently we are only interested in Russian targets, possibly enemy targets. Something that hovers in the air, then shoots off at 5,000 miles per hour, doesn't interest us, because it can't be the enemy. UFOs are picked up by ground and air radar, and they have been photographed by gun camera all along. There are so many UFOs in the sky that the Air Force has had to employ special radar networks to screen them out."
-Lee Katchen, NASA atmospheric physicist in an announcement on June 7, 1968 in which he stated that he believed, based on his examination of 7,000 reports, that UFOs have an extraterrestrial origin.

SEE MORE HERE:
www.ufoevidence.org...

So you see many scientists and physicists are in fact willing to discuss UFOs

And one more very interesting engineer said:

Wilbert Smith, Electrical engineer who convinced the Canadian government to establish Project Magnet to study the UFO phenomenon and later served as engineer-in-charge of the project.
"The matter is the most highly classified subject in the United States Government, rating higher even than the H-bomb. Flying saucers exist. Their modus operandi is unknown but concentrated effort is being made by a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush." --From a declssified Canadian government memorandum dated Nov. 21, 1950.
"...it soon became apparent that there was a very real and quite large gap between this alien science and the science in which I had been trained. Certain crucial experiments were suggested and carried out, and in each case the results confirmed the validity of the alien science. Beyond this point the alien science just seemed to be incomprehensible." --In a speech concerning experiments allegedly suggested by EBEs (Extraterrestrial Biological Entities); March 31, 1958

Look here's a ufo it was hiding in BC canada

reply to post by AlienView


Excellent post. If there hasn't been a thread created based on these quotes, there should be.
Thank you for contributing them to this thread. Stars for you!