Why Do You Go To Church?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


But persecution for refusing to worship Jesus as god is not absurd? That sounds pretty backwards to me.

I guess Romans killing those who didn't worship Jesus is different from Romans killing those who didn't worship Caesar? Or god killing then torturing people for eternity is different? Why is that?

The legalization of Christianity is what started the pagan persecutions, and Constantine is the one who ordered them. Talk about bad motives and morals. That's the guy who legalized your religion, you should be proud.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Cuervo

 

But it's also okay to be a sinner and be a Christian as long as you are "saved".

I don't really know what you're getting at. Just because a person gets saved doesn't mean they stop being a human prone to make mistakes from time to time. A Christian will feel guilt and repent, a pseudo-Christian will feel no guilt and will not repent. Being saved isn't some magic process for perfection.

That was exactly my point. You quoted scripture saying that it is possible to know who isn't really a Christian by their fruit when it's also understood that all Christians are saved, no matter how they act. I wasn't attacking that part.

We were talking about how Christians will look at high-profile Christians who do something bad and then say about him "he's not a real Christian because a real one wouldn't have done that". So... either Christians are forgiven and are sinners like the rest of us (which most people understand) or they are "disqualified" if they are sinning while being famous enough.

I hope that makes more sense.

reply to post by Cuervo

Romans 10
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

I guess this isn't "100%" true, only half true in NuT's opinion.

I'm pretty sure all Christians declare Jesus is Lord and believe that he rose from the dead, so that qualifies them. But then again, I guess it doesn't.

But it does.

But it doesn't "exactly" qualify them.

But it does....

Round and round we go.

reply to post by Cuervo


I think you need to back up for the context.

I mentioned HITLER.

Unless you're an insane psychopath he had more than a couple random slip ups here and there.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

But persecution for refusing to worship Jesus as god is not absurd? That sounds pretty backwards to me.

I guess Romans killing those who didn't worship Jesus is different from Romans killing those who didn't worship Caesar? Or god killing then torturing people for eternity is different? Why is that?

The legalization of Christianity is what started the pagan persecutions, and Constantine is the one who ordered them. Talk about bad motives and morals.

That's the guy who legalized your religion, you should be proud.

The Catholics were murdering the Christians. And it wasn't for refusing to worship Jesus. They murdered us for printing and distributing Bibles and for believing that the prerequisite for baptism is faith. And no you're flat wrong, the edict of Milan ENDED the persecutions by legalizing Christian worship.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Cuervo

 

I think you need to back up for the context.

I mentioned HITLER.

Unless you're an insane psychopath he had more than a couple random slip ups here and there.

Oh... I see what you are thinking. I wasn't replying to your post; you and I were replying to somebody else's post.

When I say "Christian who does something bad", I'm talking like Jimmy Swaggart or the countless Christian US presidents who keep us mired in war. Not Hitler.

While Hitler was technically a Christian, I don't consider him to be. There's a certain level of insanity and diabolism that a person reaches where I dissociate all labels from that person aside from "evil". If a Christian tells me that Hitler was not part of their ilk, I don't argue.

Man... this whole time you were picturing Hitler and I was picturing politicians who can't keep their pants on. Big difference.

reply to post by Cuervo

But it's also okay to be a sinner and be a Christian as long as you are "saved". I mean, that's one of the main selling points. But whenever its a public figure who sins, most other Christians shun that person and claim he wasn't really a Christian.

We're all sinners, the difference is we have hope in Jesus and that faith is afforded to us as righteousness, as it was Abraham before us. He knows everyone has sinned and fallen short of his glory and he is willing to save everyone, if you come to him. The theme is repentence (changing your mind) of sinning (doing wrong) and atonement (asking Christ to forgive you of your sins and to come into your heart and change you). Jesus paid the brideprice at the cross.

He's standing at the door, but you're the one who has to open it and invite him in.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Cuervo

 

I think you need to back up for the context.

I mentioned HITLER.

Unless you're an insane psychopath he had more than a couple random slip ups here and there.

Oh... I see what you are thinking. I wasn't replying to your post; you and I were replying to somebody else's post.

When I say "Christian who does something bad", I'm talking like Jimmy Swaggart or the countless Christian US presidents who keep us mired in war. Not Hitler.

While Hitler was technically a Christian, I don't consider him to be. There's a certain level of insanity and diabolism that a person reaches where I dissociate all labels from that person aside from "evil". If a Christian tells me that Hitler was not part of their ilk, I don't argue.

Man... this whole time you were picturing Hitler and I was picturing politicians who can't keep their pants on. Big difference.

Man, there are people who think they are Christian just because they go and sit in a pew, or are a member of a church, or they think paying tithes saves them, or eating the Jesus cookie afforded by the catholic church, or confessing to a priest. Churches are filled with all these kinds and that is the failure of the preachers and ministers for not preaching the Gospel and telling them the prerequisite for salvation. Some of them sit in the White House right now, and many of them sat there before him. You can say you're a Christian all you want, but the proof will be in your actions because those will be guided by the Holy Spirit and he will call you to repent if you sin.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


No, the Catholics were murdering the pagans. Pagans were not Christians.

The only Christians the Catholics killed were Gnostic Christians as far as I can tell. Are you Gnostic? I thought they were heretics?

The fact is, after Constantine legalized Christianity, he killed anyone who refused to convert. That's historically factual, and that is how your religion began to grow, with the murder of thousands of people.

You should seriously consider what Constantine's motives were behind the legalization, because him killing people who refused to convert shows he was looking for power, not truth.

reply to post by Cuervo

...it's also understood that all Christians are saved, no matter how they act.

You seem to be referring to Christians from a human standpoint.

Saying you are a Christian is not what MAKES you a Christian.

A person becomes a Christian only when the blood of Jesus is applied to their sins.

The majority of so called "Christians" are merely sayers and not doers.

Bottom line is that VERY few make it to Heaven (doers):

Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.

Placebo by Howard Pittman

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

Jesus explained, “Sesame! In order for someone to be saved, they must believe and receive me sincerely deep into their hearts, but most importantly it is crucial to have a sincere heart and mind. Many who have received me end up in hell, because during the prayer of confession they simply recited the prayer without sincerity!”

Jesus also said, “Many profess they have accepted and proclaimed me into their hearts, and with their mouths believe that they are saved, since they’ve believed in me for a long time, but, it is not the length of time that determines your salvation. It is the process of bearing fruits in your character that leads you closer to attaining salvation.

Many believe blindly the incorrect teaching that simply reciting with their mouths will guarantee their salvation -- and are under an illusion that they will go to heaven. Salvation should be realized through fear and trembling and each individual must grow in sincere faith.” Jesus is heartbroken and frustrated that so many souls end up in hell because they believed erroneously.

Baptize by Blazing Fire

And in the end, most people will unfortunately receive the Mark of the beast. Many Christians will get it because they were never warned by their Church. (Revelations 13:15-18) This is why The Lord is saying that less than 1% of Pastors and less the 10% of Christians will hear the trumpet sound. LINK

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


You should check out the Inquisitions. Millions of Christians were killed.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You are over-exaggerating by a long shot. Millions were not killed, thousands maybe but not millions.

Either way, Constantine killed anyone who refused to convert shortly after he legalized Christianity. Were his motives at all good in your opinion?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

You should check out the Inquisitions. Millions of Christians were killed.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You are over-exaggerating by a long shot. Millions were not killed, thousands maybe but not millions.

Either way, Constantine killed anyone who refused to convert shortly after he legalized Christianity. Were his motives at all good in your opinion?

What you both don't realize you are saying is that Christians and Pagans have all been victims of Christians and Pagans. Christianity and its various sects are as varied as all of the unconnected religions classified as "pagan" and therefore has always been at war with itself ("My version of our gods is better than your version of the same gods, rabble rabble!").

One thing that Christians and Pagans both can agree on: Christians and Pagans can be pricks.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You are over-exaggerating by a long shot. Millions were not killed, thousands maybe but not millions.

Either way, Constantine killed anyone who refused to convert shortly after he legalized Christianity. Were his motives at all good in your opinion?

No I am not. Catholic revisionism over the centuries has done a tremendous effort in trying to conceal the horrific numbers of people killed. Pope's had coins minted commemorating the massacres, and there hangs a mural to this day that was commissioned to be painted honoring the massive one-day slaughter in France. This mural hangs to this day on the Vatican.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Say a president is elected who quickly legalizes pastafarianism then goes on to kill anyone who refused to convert to his new religion. Would you not question his motives for legalizing his new religion? Or would you just ignore it and look the other way as you do with Constantine?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


"When you see that this has been granted to [Christians] by us, your Worship will know that we have also conceded to other religions the right of open and free observance of their worship for the sake of the peace of our times, that each one may have the free opportunity to worship as he pleases; this regulation is made that we may not seem to detract from any dignity of any religion."

Edict of Milan

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You are over-exaggerating by a long shot. Millions were not killed, thousands maybe but not millions.

RELIGION has lied to you.

Do you honestly believe that RELIGION is telling you the truth?

The fact that you believe religion and yet refuse to believe God is sad.

Are you not interested in the truth at all?

It appears to be so...

Catholic historian Vergerius admits gleefully that during the Pontificate of Pope Paul IV (1555-1559) "the Inquisition alone, by tortures, starvation, or the fire, murdered more than 150,000 Protestants."

"it is estimated by credible historians that more than 50,000,000, men and women have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy"

Halley’s Bible Handbook states “Historians estimate that, in the Middle Ages and Early Reformation Era, more than 50,000,000 Martyrs perished.” Furthermore, speaking of Innocent III, Halley writes [p. 776], “More Blood was Shed under his direction, and that of his immediate successors, than at any other period of Church History...

Adding in these deaths might explain the commonly quoted figure of 100 million killed by the Papacy. Adding in non-Christians killed in Europe might explain some of the higher figures. Adding in the total killed assuming half a percent killed per year in Europe for four hundred years would yield about 200 million total killed. Omitting those killed in the New World would yield a total of about 150 million. This might explain where many of the commonly quoted figures come from.

ESTIMATES OF THE NUMBER KILLED BY THE PAPACY

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Here's what you said earlier:

And why would I question his [Constantine's] motives?

"Let's legalize Christianity then kill all those pagans who refuse to convert."

-Constantine

reply to post by Murgatroid


You mean the religion that gave you the beliefs you have? Yeah, religion has lied to me but not to you right?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

For someone such as yourself (the 3NL1GHT3N3D1...)

You believe things that politicians say, and what religion says, etc...

And yet you deny the truth that is so plain to see.

That is the absolute opposite of real enlightenment.

Mindblown...