Senator Barbara Boxer's Own Experts Contradict Obama On Global Warming

well i live in the panhandle of florida and all i can say is,

Originally posted by Kali74

The truth about AGW is out there, it isn't hidden. Rich people (Fossil fuel energy cartels like Koch Industries, Exxon Mobile, BP etc) are obfuscating the truth, putting 10's of millions into media campaigns, untold money into politicians pockets, and 10's of millions into think tanks to provide an illusion that science isn't sure or is lying about what is causing our current warming period.

No, you just don't know what in the world you are talking about. Some rich people, the elite, use any and every excuse to squeeze money from us the regular people. You obviously don't know that many of them have jumped in the AGW bandwagon and are using it to get funds, and public money to get rich using the AGW scam...

BTW, you seems to be one of those people who ignore the evidence provided. I have repeatedly been posting evidence of the dirty tactics being used by the AGW scientists like Mann, Hansen, Jones, etc, etc But you want to claim/imply this evidence does not exist?...

There is not ONE iota of evidence that anthropogenic CO2 is the cause of the current undergoing Climate Change. Not ONE... All you have are flawed GCMs (Global Climate Models) which have been proven to be flawed to a fault, and the claims from a man over 300 years ago

BTW, other members and myself have been posting evidence of what we talk about for years in these forums... It is not hidden because fortunately there are some real scientists with a backbone and who have the morals to try to educate people like yourself as to what has been going on...

Not to mention that as it has been shown and proven in these forums by other members and myself that CO2 levels LAG temperature changes by an average of 800 years... This means that CO2 levels increase AFTER temperature levels increase.

The ongoing Climate Change started in the early 1600s, as the Earth was still undergoing the LIA.

Originally posted by Kali74
What is this multi-billion dollar industry you're going on about?

Environment

‘Any Other Multi-Billion Dollar Industry Would Be Treated Cynically By Reporters’: Canadian Pundit Ezra Levant Rips Global Warming Lobby

May. 24, 2012 6:01pm Mytheos Holt

Remember when global warming was a gigantic, apocalyptic danger that was going to destroy the world and that no true scientist would deny was such a thing?

We don’t either. Indeed, after two successive scandals, more financial conflicts of interest than can be properly counted, and “An Inconvenient Truth” being ruled inaccurate by a UK Court, it’s starting to become a mystery how this doomsday cult-style prophecy attracted the kind of credibility it did.
...

www.theblaze.com... -rips-global-warming-lobby/

In other threads I have made reference and shown proof that rich people, and rich companies, are using "carbon credits" to scam and launder billions of dollars.

Originally posted by Kali74
They don't, you've only been told that they have and haven't bothered to find out if it's true or not.

I haven't been told... Unlike you I have actually done research on this topic and posted facts and evidence time and again...

Originally posted by Kali74
Electricity need not be from fossil fuels, more than that I'm not going to chart out my life for you to show you my actions support my morals. It's none of your business. If I were rude like you, I could ask why you aren't in church begging God for mercy on our planet, but I won't ask you that because it's none of my business, I don't know you, I don't know your lifestyle. Just because I don't agree with you on a forum doesn't mean everything you do in your life is something I would consider bad or hypocritical.

People like you are demanding for others to stop using hydrocarbons as fuel, yet people like you continue to use the infrastructure that USES hydrocarbons...

Religion didn't create the whole AGW scam, some men and women did...

BTW, do you mean as rude as you were laughing at the op and his thread?... Naa, you are not rude...only people who respond in kind to you are rude huh?...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I've read your theories, their theories, these other 'scientists' theories... they don't pan out, sorry that you can't deal with that reality.

And again I'm not going to justify your little temper tantrum by spelling out my life to you, your opinion means nothing to me. What do I care if someone teetering on the brink thinks I'm a hypocrite?

Originally posted by Kali74

I've read your theories, their theories, these other 'scientists' theories... they don't pan out, sorry that you can't deal with that reality.

Oooh, right... so all the evidence that has been found that your idols have been lying, post/publish false information, and use other dirty tactics is just "theories"?... To emulate you in your responses...

Originally posted by Kali74
And again I'm not going to justify your little temper tantrum by spelling out my life to you, your opinion means nothing to me. What do I care if someone teetering on the brink thinks I'm a hypocrite?

Of course not... You just are rude at people for posting evidence, and when others respond in kind you play the victim and offer more insults. Got ya...

Of course, unless according to you claiming the OP was exaggerating and putting laughing faces as a response is not being rude... But what am I thinking, only those that do not adhere to the AGW scam are the rude ones when responding in kind to people like you... When people like you do it "it is not being rude"...right?...

BTW, I am not the one demanding for other people to live as YOU, and others like YOU want to control other people's lives, so if anyone has a "little temper tantrum" it is people like YOU...

Ah, the non-existent multi-billion dollar scam industry that is AGW...

Al Gore could become world's first carbon billionaire

Al Gore, the former US vice president, could become the world's first carbon billionaire after investing heavily in green energy companies.

Last year Mr Gore's venture capital firm loaned a small California firm $75m to develop energy-saving technology.

The company, Silver Spring Networks, produces hardware and software to make the electricity grid more efficient.

The deal appeared to pay off in a big way last week, when the Energy Department announced $3.4 billion in smart grid grants, the New York Times reports. Of the total, more than $560 million went to utilities with which Silver Spring has contracts.
...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Carbon Trade Exchange is a global electronic exchange platform serving both the regulatory and voluntary carbon markets

With over 145 members in 22 countries, Carbon Trade Exchange offers its members a trusted and transparent electronic marketplace for buying and selling carbon credits. CTX supports the trading of carbon credits that are originated under both the United Nations Clean Development Mechanism (CERs) and independent voluntary standards (VERs).
...

www.carbontradexchange.com...

Reduce Your Carbon Footprint

RemTec is a proud member and Aggregator for The Climate Action Reserve or (Reserve); RemTec is a source and develops carbon offset credits that meet the requirements of the Climate Action Reserve (Reserve) Ozone Depleting Substances Project Protocol

www.remtec.net...


If you look at who started these companies you will find their funders to be rich people like Al Gore.

BTW, Al Gore is NOT a capitalist, he is a corporatist who is using the GREEN wave to become richer than he was.

Like him there are hundreds of rich people making money from the scam that is carbon credits.

Last February I speculated: Carbon Credit Trading, the next financial bubble to burst? That has now come to pass for U.S. markets with the collapse of the Chicago Climate Exchange.

Carbon credits allow industries to emit carbon dioxide above any cap & trade regulations imposed. The carbon market exists as a commodity only through the decisions of politicians and bureaucrats, who determine both the demand, by setting emissions limits, and the supply, by establishing criteria for offsets. It was a bubble waiting to burst. Unlike traditional commodities, which at sometime during the course of their market exchange must be delivered to someone in physical form, the carbon market is based on the lack of delivery of an invisible substance to no one.

Since 2005, when carbon trading was one of the fastest growing commodities, there was speculation that if the Obama administration passed cap & trade legislation, the market would grow to $3 trillion.
...

tucsoncitizen.com...

The carbon credit has also been used, and is used to redistribute wealth.

The Africa Carbon Credit Exchange (ACCE) is a leading African owned and managed marketplace uniquely designed to enable Africa’s participation in the global carbon markets. We provide innovative services and solutions to unravel the complexities of carbon markets and addressing the prevailing barriers to their success in Africa.


ACCE is unlocking low-carbon Africa by creating a reliable, structured and transparent trading platform for buying and selling compliance and voluntary carbon credits created in Africa – and in doing so, driving environmentally sustainable economic growth on the continent.
...

www.africacce.com...

And if you think the money made by the carbon credits is helping the people or the environment you are really wrong. It is only making people who were rich, richer, and even in third world countries you will find some rich people.

And forgot to add another example of what has been really going on with the "carbon credit market"...

Revealed: scandal of carbon credit firm

April 8, 2011


Ben Cubby

A SYDNEY carbon credits company thought to have been running some of the world's biggest offsets deals appears to be a fake, shifting paper certificates instead of saving forests and cutting greenhouse emissions.

Shift2neutral says it has made high-profile events such as the Australian PGA golf championship and the Sydney Turf Club's world-first ''green race day'' carbon neutral.

When pressed for examples of any specific project that has cut emissions to generate the carbon credits the company offers for sale, he was unable to provide even one

But deals to generate more than $1 billion worth of carbon credits by saving jungles from logging in the Philippines, the Congo and across south-east Asia do not seem to exist.

The global network of investors and carbon offset certifiers supposed to be brokering deals with foreign presidents and the World Bank can be traced to a modest office in a shopping village in Westleigh, staffed by shift2neutral's founder, Brett Goldsworthy.
...

www.smh.com.au...

That's a lot of work to put in to prove something to someone you hate, especially one that doesn't support carbon trading or taxing carbon. Not liking the offered 'solutions' doesn't mean I have to treat the problem as imaginary, and buy into every crack pot theory put forward and especially not the ridiculous cherry picking and telling scientists they prove themselves wrong constantly, all for the fat payoffs from the fossil fuel cartels, you know that trillion dollar industry?

Originally posted by jdub297
...
We should be allocating resources to present and short-term mitigation efforts, rather than trying to put our fingers in the CO2 dike while the BRIC and Indo-Asian countries expand their use of coal and overwhelm any carbon reduction policies foisted upon the U.S. citizens, as if they were martyrs to a global economy.

What the AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) camp fail to understand is that the climate has ALWAYS been changing, and yes it can have disastrous effects. It has happened before, and it will happen again.

Instead of spending billions of dollars sequestering a gas, CO2, that is needed by plants, trees, and the green biomass of Earth alongside some life forms that directly feed off CO2, what we should be doing is preparing to adapt to the changes.

There is nothing we can do to neither mitigate, nor stop Climate Change, they fail to realize this, and continue to demand that we spend billions of dollars trying to fight nature, the galaxy, and even the Universe in general.

doi:10.1016/j.quaint.2007.06.001


Copyright © 2007 Elsevier Ltd and INQUA All rights reserved.
Extreme Nile floods and famines in Medieval Egypt (AD 930–1500) and their climatic implications





References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.


Fekri A. Hassana,

aInstitute of Archaeology, University College London, 31-34 Gordon Square, WC1H 0PY, London, UK


Available online 7 June 2007.

Abstract
Nile gauge records of variations in Nile floods from the 9th century to the 15th century AD reveal pronounced episodes of low Nile and high Nile flood discharge. Historical data reveal that this period was also characterized by the worst known famines on record. Exploratory comparisons of variations in Nile flood discharge with high-resolution data on sea surface temperature of the North Atlantic climate from three case studies suggest that rainfall at the source of the Nile was influenced by the North Atlantic Oscillation. However, there are apparently flip-flop reversals from periods when variations in Nile flood discharge are positively related to North Atlantic warming to periods where the opposite takes place. The key transitions occur atAD 900, 1010, 1070, 1180, 1350 and 1400. The putative flip-flop junctures, which require further confirmation, appear to be quite rapid and some seem to have had dramatic effects on Nile flood discharge, especially if they recurred at short intervals, characteristic of the period from the 9th to the 14th century, coincident with the so-called Medieval Warm Period. The transition from one state to the other was characterized by incidents of low, high or a succession of both low and high extreme floods. The cluster of extreme floods was detrimental causing famines and economic disasters that are unmatched over the last 2000 years.

www.sciencedirect.com

But next the AGW camp are going to claim that the oil industry invented a time machine and it was them suvs, and us pesky humans who caused those Climate Changes which caused those disasters...

reply to post by Kali74


Hate?... naa, I don't hate you, it just feels like I am trying to explain scientific facts to a toddler who can only respond with "gugu, gaga" and makes faces like and believes those are concise and intelligent responses.

Originally posted by Kali74
That's a lot of work to put in to prove something to someone you hate, especially one that doesn't support carbon trading or taxing carbon. Not liking the offered 'solutions' doesn't mean I have to treat the problem as imaginary, and buy into every crack pot theory put forward and especially not the ridiculous cherry picking and telling scientists they prove themselves wrong constantly, all for the fat payoffs from the fossil fuel cartels, you know that trillion dollar industry?

How can you disagree with the carbon trading scheme YET still believe the myth called AGW caused by co2

Stop moving the goalposts. It is ridiculous. In fact I think you are a right winger!

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

How can you disagree with the carbon trading scheme YET still believe the myth called AGW caused by co2

Stop moving the goalposts. It is ridiculous. In fact I think you are a right winger!

Sure, again, it's not like the AGW scientists have been caught lying time, and again, and again, and again...

Geez, let's just make completely nonsensical jokes and "make believe" such jokes are evidence to corroborate the AGW religion... Why don't we huh?... (Weird, have to repost my edited response- Anyway, I posted earlier that this wasn't directed at you, but I was going along showing the ridiculousness of some people who make nonsensical arguments just for the sake of arguing)

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

How can you disagree with the carbon trading scheme YET still believe the myth called AGW caused by co2

Stop moving the goalposts. It is ridiculous. In fact I think you are a right winger!

Sure, again, it's not like the AGW scientists have been caught lying time, and again, and again, and again...

Geez, let's just make completely nonsensical jokes and "make believe" such jokes are evidence to corroborate the AGW religion... Why don't we huh?...

edit on 22-7-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

So what? People make fun of anything that goes against the status quo at any given point. If I told you that both the earth and moon are hollow, would you believe me or laugh at me? I bet you would laugh at me despite being wrong on both counts.

I am a left winger but a realist at the same time. Big difference between socalism and liberalism.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

What the AGW (Anthropogenic Global Warming) camp fail to understand is that the climate has ALWAYS been changing, and yes it can have disastrous effects. It has happened before, and it will happen again.

You're are lacking some serious logic to be able to make that statement. How do you suppose climatology works to begin with? How did you miss the largest part of it, that climatologists look at climate change in earth's past to compare against our current climate change. Each climate epoch had a catalyst, something that instigated the change.

Instead of spending billions of dollars sequestering a gas, CO2, that is needed by plants, trees, and the green biomass of Earth alongside some life forms that directly feed off CO2, what we should be doing is preparing to adapt to the changes.

The goal has never been to eliminate Co2... we can't survive without it, the goal always has been to curb our metric tons of added Co2 per year to something closer to natural. Adapting wasn't always going to be a necessity, had not Big Oil paid liars to cast doubt and suppress renewable energy efforts. Now adapting is about all we are left with, but every year that we don't lower (significantly) our GHG emissions is increasing the harshness of the new reality coming our way.

There is nothing we can do to neither mitigate, nor stop Climate Change, they fail to realize this, and continue to demand that we spend billions of dollars trying to fight nature, the galaxy, and even the Universe in general.

We aren't trying to fight nature or the galaxy or the universe, just our own emissions.

Hate?... naa, I don't hate you, it just feels like I am trying to explain scientific facts to a toddler who can only respond with "gugu, gaga" and makes faces like and believes those are concise and intelligent responses

Seriously? LOL

BTW, It's spelled googoo

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

How can you disagree with the carbon trading scheme YET still believe the myth called AGW caused by co2 Stop moving the goalposts. It is ridiculous. In fact I think you are a right winger!

Are you freaking kidding me with this nonsense? I'm not moving any goal posts, my posting history is consistent with everything I am saying. And there's no need to ugly and call me a right winger. I'm a Libertarian Socialist aka an Anarchist. But neither you nor Electric Universe understand ideologies or political factions any better than you understand climatology so there's no point debating with either of you about either. I reply to you both only stop the misinformation you both spread around.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

How can you disagree with the carbon trading scheme YET still believe the myth called AGW caused by co2 Stop moving the goalposts. It is ridiculous. In fact I think you are a right winger!

Are you freaking kidding me with this nonsense? I'm not moving any goal posts, my posting history is consistent with everything I am saying. And there's no need to ugly and call me a right winger. I'm a Libertarian Socialist aka an Anarchist. But neither you nor Electric Universe understand ideologies or political factions any better than you understand climatology so there's no point debating with either of you about either. I reply to you both only stop the misinformation you both spread around.

You are a libertarian socialist aka an anarchist yet you believe the UN and its stooges that want world government? Are you freaking serious or what? Why do you think there is a global recession everywhere(more like a depression)? Things don't happen by chance, well sometimes maybe, but not here.

And libertarian socialism is an oxymoron. I could care less what wikipedia says about. Socialism requires big government and libertarianism is mixed bag of conservatism with liberalism. Libertarianism stands on its own, no need to MIX IT with socialism. Look at the ballots next time you go vote!

I love watching that video. Rothschilds wealthiest family in the world got owned by Alex Jones.

The dude is "crazy" but we need people like him to help spread truth!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

You are a libertarian socialist aka an anarchist yet you believe the UN and its stooges that want world government?

No I believe science.

Are you freaking serious or what? Why do you think there is a global recession everywhere(more like a depression)? Things don't happen by chance, well sometimes maybe, but not here.

There is a global recession due to banks and derivatives trading in combination with weak labor organization and corporations beholden only to their shareholders and not the economy.

And libertarian socialism is an oxymoron.

It isn't but your reasoning skills are suspect since you think the earth is hollow.

I could care less what wikipedia says about.

So ask Noam Chomsky instead.

Socialism requires big government

No, it requires worker ownership of the means of production.

and libertarianism is mixed bag of conservatism with liberalism

Libertarianism is simply a strong belief in personal liberty, less authority. It exists on both the left and right side of the spectrum though it originated on the left.

Look at the ballots next time you go vote!

Read some books before you ever get to look at a ballot.

Originally posted by Kali74

No I believe science.

no you believe in pseudo-science that was classified to hide the methods and data used. When the english dudes got exposed they are trying to back track themselves into safety.

There is a global recession due to banks and derivatives trading in combination with weak labor organization and corporations beholden only to their shareholders and not the economy.

it certainly did not happen by chance. the bilderbergers meeting twice with complete privacy each year tells the whole story.

It isn't but your reasoning skills are suspect since you think the earth is hollow.

irrellevant and wrong.

So ask Noam Chomsky instead.

i have talked with these "libertarian socialists" many times and determined they are right wingers.

No, it requires worker ownership of the means of production.

and a big government to act as proxy for the workers who theoretically own shares in the public ventures. the workers dont manage themselves, the government manages everything. of course there is mixed economy called socialism and public economy called communism. canada was socialist, ussr was communist.

Libertarianism is simply a strong belief in personal liberty, less authority. It exists on both the left and right side of the spectrum though it originated on the left.

in america it is considered a mixture of conservatism and liberalism. yes small government, personal responsibility, less taxes. marxism contradicts libertarianism, as it also contradicts liberalism and conservatism. marxism only composses of socialism and communism.

Read some books before you ever get to look at a ballot.

I heard gary johnson, the libertarian candidate for president last year say it all. I also did research on libertarianism. I do not care for libertarianism but I think I still know more about it then you.

Originally posted by Kali74

You're are lacking some serious logic to be able to make that statement. How do you suppose climatology works to begin with? How did you miss the largest part of it, that climatologists look at climate change in earth's past to compare against our current climate change. Each climate epoch had a catalyst, something that instigated the change.

You can be certain I am not the one "lacking some serious logic"...

First of all, in climatology GCMs are used to make so called "predictions", which in reality are not predictions more so since GCMs lack many natural factors that affect the climate, and plenty of scientists have stated so, including Climatologists... Yet GCMs are one of the main arsenal the AGW camp use despite the many flaws they have which pretty much render the GCMs "useless".

Second of all, the geological record of Earth tells a different story to what people like you, and the AGW scientists, claim it shows. For example, the fact that CO2 changes lag behind temperature changes an average of 800 years.

What this means is that temperatures rise first, and then CO2 levels rise, even on the ongoing Climate Change temperatures were increasing in the early 1600s, and have been continuously increasing since then.

Not to mention that there are plenty of times, even more recent times, when temperatures were higher than they have been in current times yet atmospheric CO2 levels were lower, such as the Medieval and Roman Warming periods.

The Earth's geological record also shows that temperatures have been much lower than now with higher levels of atmospheric CO2, meaning there is no real correlation that corroborates the claim that CO2 causes the "massive warming" claimed by the AGW camp.

Originally posted by Kali74
The goal has never been to eliminate Co2... we can't survive without it, the goal always has been to curb our metric tons of added Co2 per year to something closer to natural. Adapting wasn't always going to be a necessity, had not Big Oil paid liars to cast doubt and suppress renewable energy efforts. Now adapting is about all we are left with, but every year that we don't lower (significantly) our GHG emissions is increasing the harshness of the new reality coming our way.

Yet that is exactly what governments are funding universities and groups to achieve...to sequester large volumes of atmospheric CO2.

And again, you are showing a lack of understanding that "adapting" is ALWAYS a necessity... you seem to think that mankind, or you, can stop or mitigate the climate when you can't. Sorry to rain on your parade but you are not an all powerful Goddess who can control the climate of Earth...

Not to mention that you obviously don't know that not only are natural emissions of atmospheric CO2 much, much higher than anthropogenic emissions, but the year to year difference of natural CO2 emissions can, and do exceed from year to year the yearly anthropogenic emissions.

Originally posted by Kali74
We aren't trying to fight nature or the galaxy or the universe, just our own emissions.

Actually you are trying to do just that. You see, this planet, and in fact the whole Solar System is not stuck in place, it is always moving and changing from one region to another, and changes in the regions of space our Solar System, and Earth, encounter themselves in do have an effect on the climate of Earth.

In fact, there is more evidence that supports the argument that the different region of space our Solar System has been encountering is the one causing the ongoing Climate Changes, than there is evidence to corroborate the AGW hoax.

Originally posted by Kali74
It's spelled googoo and just because you insist on acting like a child, doesn't mean you have spell like one.

It's not like I am Hispanic and in my native language that's the way you spell it. Not to mention that I can point out your grammatical errors in your above sentence but that would really serve nothing...

But hey, it's not like you have given us evidence to corroborate your claims right?... Oh wait for you is evidence. I forgot.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
...
I am a left winger but a realist at the same time. Big difference between socalism and liberalism.

I understand. I had added a response that what I wrote wasn't directed at you, but had 2 different tabs open trying to respond to the same thread and must have re-edited my response.

There are people from all sides of the political fence who back/believe either side of the AGW argument. There are also people in all sides of the political spectrum making lots of money from AGW and Climate Change.

I have said it many times in the past, what we should be going after and trying to stop are the real toxic chemicals and gases that are to this day being released. Yet the elites, and the AGW camp in general are focusing just on a benign gas, CO2. This is a gas that all humans exhale, alongside animals and even plants/trees at night.

If you want to squeeze money from people, go after something they exhale and you can put the blame for "Climate Change" on that particular thing people exhale continuously. At least that is the mantra of the elites and the AGW camp.