Oh no, not another Rendlesham Thread.

reply to post by Logical one


Any information given in subsequent interviews must be secondary to original witness statements in terms of accuracy of facts. That the original statements may have been guided / altered cannot be discounted also.

As for a chinese lantern seen by Halt that suggestion belies your posting name. Are we to believe that it also managed to flash at the same frequency as the lighthouse ?

The hypothesis about the tape and the lighthouse is a classic case of sceptics demanding "good science" one moment and then conveniently forgetting it applies to everything the next, when it suits an agenda.

Halt's tape was recorded on a microcassette , we don;t know whether it was recorded at normal speed, slow or fast. Listening to it and as it's my work, I tend to take the view it was recorded on slow and played back at about 10% faster than normal as Halt's voice is noticeably higher in timbre than any other recordings I have heard of him. Now, I've considered it as an artefact of the crappy little mic on one of those machines however, I've garnered a couple of other pros thoughts on it and their take is. "Sounds speeded up to me".

Then there's the question of the tape that most have heard how was it transcribed? Was it direct to digital or was it, as I suspect, transcribed to yet another cassette before being transferred to digital. Given the time frame, that's wholly possible. Unless it was transcribed to something akin to a Nakamichi Cassette deck then, it is almost 100% guaranteed that the speed will have changed once again. The manufacturer Denon, for instance , all their cassettes recorded at about +2-3%, compared to the original source.

The upshot of all his is that, the tape we all hear could be anything within plus or minus 20% in terms of it playback speed compared to the original time frame.. That translates to around a second drift, plus or minus, in a n original time frame of 5 seconds.

The conclusion being that, if we are approaching the tape in "the proper scientific manner" then, its' data, in terms of timing, is wholly meaningless until we know the actual facts. The likes of Clarke and Ridpath don't tell you that and that's probably either because 1..They don;t a clue about it in the first place or 2... Have deliberately left the salient facts one needs to know about the recording, in order to further their own agenda.

As it stands, the timing on the tape stands as proof of absolutely nothing, as the variables are as yet, still an unknown. Furthermore, hands up those who suspect that, had the tape's timing been key to "proving" something strange did indeed occur, then the facts I have just given you all, would have been all over the net on the sceptics sites?

Originally posted by mirageman

This is better than Ridpath's explanation. The Chinese community would of course have been celebrating Christmas. Especially with blue chinese lanterns that explain how all of the witnesses saw blue lights. Don't forget as well that Boxing Day in Britain is also a celebration of the crushing of the Boxer rebellion in the early 1900s. Celebrated by the many of the Chinese community as well. So a special lantern could well have been used equipped with a high powered beam the following night and explains Halt's sighting.

If you read my post more closely.........I actually say that Chinese lanterns do not explain ALL of the events at Rendlesham...........but I am suggesting that they may have been the cause of some of the lights.

Firstly the Chinese Community in Britain do celebrate Christmas, and lanterns are launched between Christmas and New Years day.
As for the blue lighting........well not all the lights were describe as blue........some were orange red.
And dripping hot candle wax can appear to look like molten metal.
Again I'm not saying that the lanterns explain everything...... but they may well have played their part in SOME of the lights that Halt saw.
And If anyone is going to dismiss Chinese Lanterns as a possibility of some of the lights then that simple is not logical.

reply to post by Logical one


Logical,, well it would be "logical" to actually use the facts as known. This was rural Suffolk in 1980 the "Chinese Community" of the area amounted to roughly, Mr and Mrs Lee, their children and a pet Chow. The nearest Chinese Emporium that sold "Chinese lanterns" was probably in Glasgow and as yet, no-one had probably ever seen of the now fabled Lanterns East of Hong Kong. Plus, then there's the thought that. "Hey I have really good idea, lets pile everyone into the car, drive to the middle of a forest between two of the most heavily guarded bases in this country and fire up a few Chinese Lanterns where we won't be able to see them ofr more thna few seconds as they disappear over the tree tops.

Maybe, it was actually two locals from the Raj Tandoori using "Fighting kites with lights attached to them" in a forest.

Or, maybe it was the Great Cornard model flying club with their top secret stealth models festooned with LEDs that weren't even commercially available at the time.

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Honestly its been since the late 90's that I read accounts of this incident but I always ranked it high on my list of what I considered "real" events. I am working on long term memory here but I never bought the lighthouse explination as being the cause of what they saw. I do accept that during the patrols out into the woods some of the men may have lost their relative position and mistook the lighthouse for the original lights that they followed into the woods however the lighthouse is not the source of those original lights.
What I am trying to get across here is that while standing guard no one mistook the lighthouse for a crashed aircraft and then followed it out into the woods only to see "Oh silly us thats just the lighthouse".
The points about preception are valid but what the men expected to see was not a UFO what they expected to see was a crashed aircraft.

reply to post by FireMoon


I agree that it's interesting that the MOD deemed the incident to be of no defense significance. Would make sense, though, if they knew it was their own craft, and they were testing it's scanning capabilities, I suppose. Just a thought...

Originally posted by Dragoon01
What I am trying to get across here is that while standing guard no one mistook the lighthouse for a crashed aircraft and then followed it out into the woods only to see "Oh silly us thats just the lighthouse".

He didn't say "Oh silly us", but this is what Cabansag said:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

After we had passed through the forrest, we thought it had to be an aircraft accident. So did CSC as well. But we ran and walked a good 2 miles past out the vehicle, until we got to a vantage point where we could determine that what we were chasing was only a beacon light off In the distance.

What you said nobody did is almost his exact words saying what he did.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Why don;t you watch the video and then just admit, the whole Lighthouse shtick is just utter pants.? The key evidence everyone wanted to know is there for you. How did the first night start and why did they even bother going into the woods at all? Two people on guard at the East gate stood and watched "lights, note plural lights, not light, manoeuvre above the forest and called it in. One guard was so freaked out by the sigh,t they refused to go on the recce that was organised to investigate it.

The unknown lights were not transitory in nature as would a meteor or space debris be. They manoeuvred over the forest for some time, before anyone actually went out to investigate.. We now know that , in actual fact, the whole story about an aircraft crashing was utter BS put out to probably make people seem a little more "credible". It is now quite obvious that, from the very get go, no-one thought they were any known aircraft crashing into the forest.

No- one doubts that, after spending a couple of hours in the cold and the dark and having had virtually every last thing you thought you knew challenged by the events that have just happened to you close up and personal that, one might then mistake a flashing light from the lighthouse for something else from the phenomenon that you have just witnessed..

We now know the following . That, contrary to what was thought previously, the base was indeed a hive of activity on all 3 nights and there are dozens of other witnesses to some of the events who have said nothing in the intervening years. The only person who has, the base commander one moment says there was something "really weird happened" and then totally contradicted himself a few years later. The fact that, not one of those people have gone public to say.."Oh, I was there it was all just a misunderstanding etc" speaks volumes.

Whilst one might quite rightly disagree with Hesletine's belief it was "aliens" it really doesn't matter, it is now established something very strange happened 3 nights running and that space debris, meteors, and lighthouses are merely the tools of those with nothing more than a bias and an agenda that is determined to make light sic of any incident that might occur despite all the actual evidence to the contrary.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


My fantasies involve scantly clad women not sweaty airmen trampsing through forests.
I know thats what those guys said. You left off how it got started. Those guys did not ENTER the woods looking for a a lighthouse beacon. I specifically said that some of them got off bearing an did follow the lighthouse once they got in the woods. That same lighthouse beacon is not what they followed INTO the woods. Thats the key part. I dont believe for one second that they saw the lighthouse from their guard positions and thought it was a crash. Went off into the woods following this same lighthouse and then emerged from the woods and saw it was the lighthouse.
They saw moving lights that entered the woods. They went off into the woods and some of them indeed then began to track the lighthouse IN ERROR. That does not explain what caused them to go off on the patrol to begin with.

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt


Ditto that!

reply to post by FireMoon


reply to post by Dragoon01

There were some other lights besides the lighthouse lights for sure.

Some have suggested a meteor but that's not the kind of light you can follow, because it has such a short duration.

In fact the witness reports mention what sounds like another meteor in addition to the lighthouse, after they were already out exploring. This is what Penniston described on the way back to the base:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
"On the way back we encountered a blue streaking light to the left only lasting a few seconds. "

Obviously that was no lighthouse. I'm only trying to correct people who deny the lighthouse was a major factor, like Gary Heseltine suggests in the video. I never said there weren't other lights, which obviously there were. That blue streaking light to the left was another light. And there was probably another like it earlier in the evening, possibly more dramatic.

reply to post by FireMoon


I get what you are saying about definitive proof and possibility of tampering and altering transcripts etc.

However, describing a light that flashes at the approximate frequency of that lighthouse, together with describing the iris effect that is seen when looking at that light, is highly suggestive that what is being seen and described at that point was the lighthouse.

That is far from saying that the lighthouse accounts for all sightings of lights and I don't subscribe to the combination of "explainable" anomalous light events (meteors, debris re-entry etc) accounting for what was seen either.

An intriguing incident occurred for sure !

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Read your linked thread indepth. You will see what the actual witnesses say about the Lighthouse.
They all indicate it was not a factor with several saying they clearly saw the lighthouse AND the moving lights in the woods at the same time.They say that they saw the beacon after they emerged from the woods and began walking across the open fields. This was after they lost sight of the lights in the woods as the object moved away from them. Its entirely consistant and plauseable that they did indeed see some very close range object or lightsource that moved away and went dark. Attempting to re-establish contact with the object brought them into a position to see the lighthouse off in the distance and determine that they needed to investigate it. Once they saw that it was the beacon they turned back realizing the encounter had ended much earlier and why they had pursued the beacon. The lighthouse is a distraction and was obviously self evident at the beginning of each nights activitys.

reply to post by Dragoon01


Sounds to me like you are still contradicting what Cabansag said in the quote from his eyewitness statement in my earlier reply.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by Dragoon01

 

Sounds to me like you are still contradicting what Cabansag said in the quote from his eyewitness statement in my earlier reply.

Yeah right Arby, always only half the story with you isn't it? That would be Cabansag who said. something along the lines of..."During the debriefing I kept saying it wasn't the lighthouse till they took out a gun and said, bullets are cheap, so I said, it was the lighthouse"....You already know that though don't you Arby, you just choose deliberately to leave that part out as it doesn't fit your world view?

reply to post by FireMoon


I've always been so fascinated by this case. I think it's one of most credible events to have happened with regards to possible ET encounters, since it involved military personnel at a nuclear base.

But like with so many other UFO cases I always find it interesting that most sightings tend to happen at night. This is not to say that they don't occur during the waking hours, but it's clear that when people see weird lights that can't be readily explained it's almost always under the cover of darkness, which allows for numerous mis-identifications of these lights...

So if there's anything that gets me scratching my head with this one is if this incident took place over 3 consecutive nights why didn't these things come by during the waking hours to "inspect the base"? Why always at night?

And considering that this incident occurred over the Christmas holiday, which is generally celebrated with lights, I wonder if this was at all taken into account in the investigation?

And do you know if anything has been made about Bultey Abbey which had been a monastery for sometime? It seems that these sightings occurred within the same line of sight as that estate. Any possible witnesses from there or perhaps celebrations that may have been happening for the Christmas holiday?

reply to post by WASTYT


Interesting points however, Saturnalia, Solstice call it what you will. in England in 1980 meant, a total shut-down of virtually everything including pubs, hotels and other services. Back then, to work on Xmas day was often between 4 times the hourly rate up to 6 times the hourly rate. Even the trains would cease to run if their journey took them past midnight Xmas Eve to arrive. For instance, in my home town of some 70,000 souls, there was one single pub use to open on Xmas day evening, The Weddington Arms actually not that I'd know that from experience, cough...... Boxing day was the traditional start of the Winter sales season and from memory, the trains and buses ran a Sunday service. in fact on Xmas evening, some 20 million people, of a population of 56 million would watch one TV show, The Morecambe and Wise show. The trend for travelling abroad had really, only just started for larger numbers of people. So Xmas 1980, the country was still in the thrall of a very traditional ideal, one where, pretty much, the whole country simply ground to a halt for roughly 48 hours.

There was at least one civilian witness who saw the lights over the woodlands and the lights of the search parties wending its' way through them. In the run up to the Xmas incidents, a local couple had reported seeing a classic "Saucer shaped" craft in the Rendlesham area..

reply to post by Logical one


Sorry but I am able to identify due to experience in observing them (and having studied physics and astronomy): stars, satellites, shooting stars, planets, nebulae, Chinese lanterns, craft and some military guy there cannot identify a Chinese lantern? Lmao. Thanks for the compliment, glad to be more knowledgeable than trained guy at a military base.

Originally posted by FireMoon
reply to post by WASTYT

 

The trend for travelling abroad had really, only just started for larger numbers of people. So Xmas 1980, the country was still in the thrall of a very traditional ideal, one where, pretty much, the whole country simply ground to a halt for roughly 48 hours.

There was at least one civilian witness who saw the lights over the woodlands and the lights of the search parties wending its' way through them. In the run up to the Xmas incidents, a local couple had reported seeing a classic "Saucer shaped" craft in the Rendlesham area..

Ok I get that, but Im asking specifically about Bultey Abbey which some research seems to indicate may have been a residence at the time of the incident. Was there any part of the investigation that centered on that property, just as the farmhouse was just next door? If people stayed home for the holiday perhaps the owners of Butley Abbey were there at the time?

reply to post by FireMoon


Trust me I look forward to the information, it wasn't long ago that the witnesses of Rendlesham came out and said that they had much more information to be released. We are loosing a grip on the subject thought because there is no such thing as the amazing things that happened back then. So it isn't that strange to me that people were dressing in bright colors and acting completely opposite as they do today. If we think about it, humans were pretty much the same for thousands of years, slowly changing over hundreds of years. Then we have brilliant people since Newton, but since Roswell we have had people change drastically every decade, then it has leveled out just as the encounters go away and everybody has the ability to see each other - as the aliens do.