Revelation : The whores "fornication" is usury.

reply to post by undo

jesus taught that the spirit of the law was more important than the letter of the law. which in effect meant that if you let the law over rule your compassion for other people, whether they are kaffir, gentiles or your fellows, and whether or not they were riddled with sin, you have already disobeyed the intent or spirit of the law. he was very much against legalism, so idol worship or not, the point is still the same - spirit of the law is superior to the letter of the law.

Not so sure about that first sentence. Jesus did say that the letter of the law was important and that not one dot of it would go away. Either way, I don't see what this has to do with eschatology and the whore of revelation.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by undo

 

jesus taught that the spirit of the law was more important than the letter of the law. which in effect meant that if you let the law over rule your compassion for other people, whether they are kaffir, gentiles or your fellows, and whether or not they were riddled with sin, you have already disobeyed the intent or spirit of the law. he was very much against legalism, so idol worship or not, the point is still the same - spirit of the law is superior to the letter of the law.

Not so sure about that first sentence. Jesus did say that the letter of the law was important and that not one dot of it would go away. Either way, I don't see what this has to do with eschatology and the whore of revelation.

no, the letter of the law was abused, and is continuing to be abused. for example, the woman who had been caught in adultery. when the obvious implication of the passage is brought up, we are told by muslims that it was added to the new testament by the rcc. now i wouldn't suggest that such a thing is unlikely, as it is possible but without evidence, it has to be judged on different criteria, such as jesus' other quotes. and there are plenty, where he indicates the pharisees had gone off the deep end with their decision to hold to the letter of the law when it was never meant to be applied in that way. they used it to punish people in ways that were completely against the spirit of the law as he described it.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Paul preached that it would be better if men stayed single.... and Jesus himself spoke of those who remained celibate for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

Paul also said that celibacy wasn't a commandment and Jesus also said it was good to have a wife, but that having a wife wasn't for everyone. Jesus said some made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom, some were made eunuchs by other men and some were born eunuchs. Being a eunuch has 2 applications, 1 it means a person who has been castrated, or 2 a person who has been given authority.

1 Corinthians 7:1-5

1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:

It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

The above portion is from Paul in his first ministry to the Corinthians. I digress.

The Lord has been giving the same message for thousands of years and it culminates in the book of Revelation. Usury itself is a problem yes, but it comes from breaking the Royal Law to "treat others the way you want to be treated". The people who "fornicate" with Mystery Babylon don't give a crap about the Royal Law, they are walking by their greed and lust for wealth.

The 144,000 are simply a special class of holy people, who have abstained from sex for the sake of their faith. Its absurd to think that of billions of religious people over thousands of years, only 144,000 were faithful to God without engaging in idolatry.

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Just because you are religious does not mean you are "holy". Only one person was ever considered truly holy by God, and that is Jesus Christ the Holy One of Israel, that is why we have to come to Christ for salvation.

Galatians 3:26-29

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Acts 15:24-29 (Council of Jerusalem to the gentile believers)

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

The 144k are not literal virgins. Why?

Genesis 1:26-28

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

The command from the beginning was to multiply and be fruitful, only one way humans can multiply, and that is to have sex and the only way to have sex and it not be a sin is to be married and have a wife. Now if you want context you start here and work your way forward to Revelation, then you will understand that the 144k cannot be talking about literal virgins who never had sex.

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by undo

 

jesus taught that the spirit of the law was more important than the letter of the law. which in effect meant that if you let the law over rule your compassion for other people, whether they are kaffir, gentiles or your fellows, and whether or not they were riddled with sin, you have already disobeyed the intent or spirit of the law. he was very much against legalism, so idol worship or not, the point is still the same - spirit of the law is superior to the letter of the law.

Not so sure about that first sentence. Jesus did say that the letter of the law was important and that not one dot of it would go away. Either way, I don't see what this has to do with eschatology and the whore of revelation.

no, the letter of the law was abused, and is continuing to be abused. for example, the woman who had been caught in adultery. when the obvious implication of the passage is brought up, we are told by muslims that it was added to the new testament by the rcc. now i wouldn't suggest that such a thing is unlikely, as it is possible but without evidence, it has to be judged on different criteria, such as jesus' other quotes. and there are plenty, where he indicates the pharisees had gone off the deep end with their decision to hold to the letter of the law when it was never meant to be applied in that way. they used it to punish people in ways that were completely against the spirit of the law as he described it.

Jesus was demonstrating "the Lord will have mercy on whom he will" (Exodus 33:19).

Exodus 17-19

17 So the Lord said to Moses, “I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”

18 And he said, “Please, show me Your glory.”

19 Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”

Originally posted by Miracula

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Usury is institutionalized deceit

Can you say Mercedez Benz?

Can you say "better than you"?

I saw a lawyer in Utah buy the biggest house around only to wind up having it foreclosed when his income deflated.

Usury is all about putting on a show.

edit on 16-7-2013 by Miracula because: (no reason given)

However. I myself use usury. I have a Nissan Versa I make payments on. I suppose if I had the money I might buy a Mercedez but it's about deceiving people.

It's about displaying wealth you don't actually possess.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

The command from the beginning was to multiply and be fruitful, only one way humans can multiply, and that is to have sex and the only way to have sex and it not be a sin is to be married and have a wife. Now if you want context you start here and work your way forward to Revelation, then you will understand that the 144k cannot be talking about literal virgins who never had sex.

The command to be fruitful and multiply was given shortly after the creation of mankind.. before the "fall" in the garden and the phenomena of prophecy. It was within a completely different time frame and context. If having sex to multiply and be fruitful was a command, then Jesus and John the baptist and possibly others are all guilty of breaking a direct command from God.

The virginity of the 144K is to be taken as literal, the way they were literally "blameless" and as literally free of lies. It can't be that only their virginity is metaphorical and the other qualities are literal. The 144K are spiritual giants in a league of their own and are chosen specifically by God.

Normal religious folks who marry, have sex and spend more time on careers, sports, entertainment - than on God, are simply not in the same league as the spiritual giants of the 144K.

Also, its absurd to think that out of billions of religious people, only 144K managed to NOT worship a false god. Don't you think?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The virginity of the 144K is to be taken as literal, the way they were literally "blameless" and as literally free of lies. It can't be that only their virginity is metaphorical and the other qualities are literal. The 144K are spiritual giants in a league of their own and are chosen specifically by God.

The 144k are not going to be a bunch of super jews. Bro I am telling you their virginity is allegorical, not of a literal nature. Them being "blameless" means they are saved and justified in Christ because that is the only way you can be found blameless.

Philipians 2:1-16

1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.

The Humbled and Exalted Christ

5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Light Bearers

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

It's not about something as mundane and shallow as having sex with a woman.

Are you one of the 144, 000 .it is not a quantity it is aquality caused by God.ALL of revelation is symbols that signify.NONE of it is literal.