Is Atheism a religion of War?

While I am agnostic, rather than atheist - I find it to be one of the least offensive belief systems.

Of course, there is is an entirely new level of consciousness waiting for those who are able to release their ego from belief, repudiate all truth and open their minds to infinite information.

Agnosticism - the alternative to a reality based on what you chose to be true, a new reality in which you accept that you do not know - that you cannot know, but you can strive to understand.

Originally posted by RUFFREADY
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IMHO I think though the really religious tend to be so serious and anal retentive on the subject while the "I don't know", and, "Show me the proof', and the out right atheist (though I think even an atheist in lets say in a war situation or tight spot could call out to god, "under extreme duress", as we are only human) don't get all in your face about it.

i suppose this comes down to what you are taught, i don't think many religions teach that being lazy and never reading the text or following the rituals will get you a happy after life or closer to the spiritual thing you follow.
so committed religious people are going to be more willing to be in your face about it, personally if you thought people you know were going to go to hell, i'd be gungho about it too.

I've never had an atheist knock on my door trying to give me a lecture.

I just went out to my mail box a moment ago (swear to god!)

and on my screen door handle was a JW flyer! I had to take it off and look at it to see what it was. I couldn't tell unless I un-swirled it (it was rolled up).

I do have on my "door" behind the screen door "NO Soliciting", but folks will leave stuff on the screen door.

I have never got one from an atheist.

well yeah, atheists aren't told you need to do anything to be one. there is imperative or drive to do anything, no system hammering you to get out there and tell people about atheism.

JW, mormon, christianity,and islam are the only religions that really have that system that hammers on them that if people don't follow the religion they will end up burning forever.

as annoying as it can be, having people care enough to try to convert you is a good sign of them caring about their fellow man.
a person who doesn't try could be said to not care enough to save people from hell.
its a hard road as jesus said, people really don't want to deal with that kind of stuff, and can get hostile about it.

Originally posted by Amagnon
While I am agnostic, rather than atheist - I find it to be one of the least offensive belief systems.

Of course, there is is an entirely new level of consciousness waiting for those who are able to release their ego from belief, repudiate all truth and open their minds to infinite information.

Agnosticism - the alternative to a reality based on what you chose to be true, a reality in which you accept that you do not know - that in fact you cannot know, but you can strive to understand.

atheism is about belief, so you are atheist or theist in regards to your belief that gods exist, a theist says yes, an atheist says no.,

agnostic is about knowledge of gods existence, you either know or do not know.
most atheists are agnostic atheists, they don't know for sure. this is reasonable. very few are gnostic atheists, i have a hard time accepting such a thing since even they would have to admit that saying "i know gods don't exist!" is pretty hard to support.

most theists say they know god exists, but a lot of people will when questioned, that they believe god exists 99% of the time until something really bad happens.

i think trying to make agnosticism into a belief is missing the point of the idea, it should be understood as a way of thinking, not an alternative to atheism.
i also think it is wrong to say that agnosticism says we can't know.

i am an agnostic atheist, and i think we can know but at this juncture that is up to some god to help us out. personally i don't really see much of an issue to that, i don't live my life worrying over what i don't know.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

As a Christian who believes in human liberation, I honor the right of the atheist not to believe or really inquire open-mindedly into the nature of Christian belief and gnosis (knowledge), but, if they poke fun or make assumptive comments about believers or their faith and it's origin or nature, without any real knowledge, or understanding (made obvious by their comments), then they deserve to get ripped a new one in their ignorance and folly, lack of imagination and in many cases, spiritual depth (believing in a materialist monism, whereby matter alone is primary and reality, WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).

If only they knew the reason / logic and the humor of God through Christ in a great joke told at the expense of all our ignorance and fully, they would not be so quick to make certain assumptions...

It's just their often childish and bullying nature that I cannot stomach.

Best regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

As a Christian who believes in human liberation, I honor the right of the atheist not to believe or inquire into the nature of Christian belief, but if they poke fun or make assumptive comments about believers or their faith and it's origin or nature, without any real knowledge, then they deserve to get ripped a new one in their ignorance and folly, lack of imagination and spiritual depth.

I honor your right to keep your beliefs to yourself, out of government and societal protocol. When your beliefs become the world's hindrance, then it becomes my problem as a guardian of the world our future generations will inherit. We all share this duty, and I will not see your pride and willful ignorance serve as a stumbling block for progress in that regard.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Just so long as you know that, without God, and Christ, you alone are "at cause" and everything you do, and/or fail to do, down to the smallest detail, will be your judge, in the final analysis. How absurd and ironic then when you really think about it that your motivation for being "atheist" is to protect a certain lifestyle and avoid judgement..

Freedom, and liberation is the true nature of Christianity, the freedom to be and to become our truest and fullest self without hindrance or constraint (except by love) liberated by a radical, transformative forgiveness to "love, and do as you will." (St. Augustine)

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis

P.S. I prefer a future world where the wisdom of the ages isn't discarded in favor of modern ignorance which offers nothing of any substance whatsoever.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Just so long as you know that, without God, and Christ, you alone are "at cause" and everything you do, and/or fail to do, down to the smallest detail, will be your judge, in the final analysis.

So tell me who will be judged more harshly........... the atheist who harmed not a single soul...........or the Catholic who being so devoted to God.........slaughtered people because they would not conform to belief in God?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Just so long as you know that, without God, and Christ, you alone are "at cause" and everything you do, and/or fail to do, down to the smallest detail, will be your judge, in the final analysis.

Wait, excuse me? What will be my judge?

How absurd and ironic then when you really think about that your motivation for being "atheist" is to protect a certain lifestyle and avoid judgement..

No. No, no, no, and again no. Don't even dare to presume that you know anything about my choice to be an atheist. You clearly haven't paid attention to a single one of my posts if that is the conclusion you've drawn, so don't even dare. My decision to be an atheist, and my advocation thereof, is a principle of accountability that promotes proactive self-determinism, progressing to an innate awareness that all of our desires are attainable of and through our own power. Our flaws, or 'sins', are simply the trial and error process by which we learn to master that power. Absolutely no part of what we are is without purpose. The only limitation is what we are willing to imagine or understand about ourselves. Gods are only necessary when we are unwilling to accept ourselves, which is an unhealthy basis for any kind of philosophy.

As a theist, you have no ground for understanding anything about atheism except what you have experienced directly...which is a limited amount, according to all probability, given that you don't go out of your way to interview atheists or study atheism in all of its broad variations. So don't even think to give me that condescending tone.

Freedom, and liberation is the true nature of Christianity, the freedom to be and to become our truest and fullest self without hindrance or constraint (except by love) liberated by a radical, transformative forgiveness to "love, and do as you will." (St. Augustine)

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."

If our liberation were his compulsion, he wouldn't be recruiting.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

As a Christian who believes in human liberation, I honor the right of the atheist not to believe or really inquire open-mindedly into the nature of Christian belief and gnosis (knowledge), but, if they poke fun or make assumptive comments about believers or their faith and it's origin or nature, without any real knowledge, or understanding (made obvious by their comments), then they deserve to get ripped a new one in their ignorance and folly, lack of imagination and in many cases, spiritual depth (believing in a materialist monism, whereby matter alone is primary and reality, WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).

If only they knew the reason / logic and the humor of God through Christ in a great joke told at the expense of all our ignorance and fully, they would not be so quick to make certain assumptions...

It's just their often childish and bullying nature that I cannot stomach.

Best regards,

NAM

edit on 15-7-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Hehe... been a fan of your posts for a while, man. This is what it's about. There are some god-awful (pardon the blaspheming lol) atheists out there who make the most ridiculous claims about religions and their texts just to make their opponents feel that much smaller. Happens on the other side too, yes, but that's not what we're talking about.

In any case, to the OP: I'm having trouble with your title. Why is atheism a religion? I mean, if we were to call it a religion and apply that same train of thought to everything, then the Abrahamic religions, Zoroastrianism and every other monotheistic faith would be one religion. That's rather problematic.

Some atheists don't believe in evolution. Some atheists trust may mainstream science with more scepticism than many theists. Some don't even believe the earth is round. There might be one that believes the world is the Matrix.

That's a pretty muddy religion.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Christianity is an unexpected reintegration in SPITE of our "sins", so it invites us to laugh at ourselves and not take ourselves or our life as we typically live it, all that seriously, while taking God as the all-in-all and the living Spirit of Truth and life more seriously, even to the degree that we inherit that life as our true nature, so that even death becomes the brunt of humor. By trial and error alone, especially when the error is protected, guarded and coveted, we cannot engineer our own salvation, and even if we could, would we stand alone apart from God as a "meatbag" and brag about it?!

You have no idea how ingenious and FUNNY the truth of Christianity is and can be, and what it invites us into in terms of the nature of our will and the pursuit of true happiness.

A purely "rational self interest" only gets a person so far and in the final analysis is self defeating where the self-will and it's defects are at the root of our suffering.

But by the light of truth, we can bring it all out into the light and be healed, while also having our own good-natured, good-willed humor restored.

Christianity, appropriated, is the end of war as a war against our own self, so that we need no longer be divided and can be reintegrated with God like a friend to God, with all our "junk stuff" transformed into valuable treasure. It's like what you're talking about, but all at once with wholeness and integrity, so that we can roll into a whole new domain of possibility for ourselves and our fellow man.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


If that's what you call "true happiness", then sayonara and best of luck to you. I have nothing further to add because neither of us is convincing the other. I have explained my particular position on the subject of atheism, and how war is NOT my intention. I only seek to promote the most productive emotional approach we can drudge up, and mythical figures watching from the skies are not going to help anymore than your little blankie did when you were 5. It represented something deeper inside of you, something that was afraid, until you suddenly realized that you didn't need to be afraid because you had all the tools you needed to do what you had to.

And now, it's time to give "God" the backseat so we have both hands free to wield our own power. It's always good to remember where we come from, but it's never a good idea to cling to it.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Just remember that I'm talking about a degree of self acceptance that is transcendant and capable of reintegrating and transforming the "junk stuff" making even the worst aspects a source of great humor.

That you wrestle with God isn't a bad thing either and because of that I suspect you meet with his approval more than many mindless and hypocritical believers.

Keep on wrestling with Him but just be willing to get pinned every once in a while..lol

It's the self-willed, arrogant rebellious principal which doesn't wash, that's all. And who could rebel or repel against absolute Love anyway?

Love conquers all.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

It's the self-willed, arrogant rebellious principal which doesn't wash, that's all. And who could rebel or repel against absolute Love anyway?

Love conquers all.

Rebellious is a rather loosely applied label. I'm talking about the independence, freedom and room to grow the skills and understanding necessary to live a healthy and productive lifestyle. Dependence on a deity sort of cramps that.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

We were made to be in partnership with God as the Spirit of Truth and Life, as co-creators. I'm not talking about a sky-daddy, but something much more intrinsic, inerrant and transcendent. It's an evolutionary principal of growth and of life meeting life. You want power, that's where it is, where, perhaps ironically or paradoxically, "Virtue" may be defined as "power, restrained."

I've wielded power and do it all the time, when I'm in the spirit and working with God in spirit to help bring about a favorable outcome for another in mutuality and it's incredible the things that happen as if I've tapped into an acausal connecting principal.

But in rebellion against God, and apart from God, you can do nothing.

"Apart from me you can do nothing." -- Jesus

Without an appropriate working and workable theological framework, it is impossible to throw off the conditioning of the "massman" and enter the fray with one's entire being, Carl Jung understood this clearly.

To be anti-God to protect your own "turf" undermines your own power still further, until you're left clinging, powerless, to a very dirty "security blanket"..

You've got it all backwards, and no the rebellious principal of the mythical fall of Satan isn't like the Declaration of Independence from a tyrannical King.
You don't seem to know the first thing about the true nature, and essential character, of our King.


That's just for starters..

reply to post by LABTECH767


Correction. Atheism is a LACK of beleif system. I could just as well beleive in the Easter Bunny, there's about as much evidence that says he is real as compared tp a God. For the record , I beleive in neither.

reply to post by openyourmind1262

When you look around, and within - what DO you believe in? Just yourself?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

We were made to be in partnership with God as the Spirit of Truth and Life, as co-creators.

I see. So you're pushing your own brand of Christianity. Seeing as how you have taken a preexisting brand, changed it to suit your personal views, and passed it along, I don't see how you are any different from the sinners of this world. Those who change the word are subject to its punishment, are they not?

I say this because we are not equal to the god of the bible, nor will we ever be. He is not interested in a partnership, he is interested in a monarchy which has room for only one king...and all of that king's subjects.

I'm not talking about a sky-daddy, but something much more intrinsic, inerrant and transcendent. It's an evolutionary principal of growth and of life meeting life. You want power, that's where it is, where, perhaps ironically or paradoxically, "Virtue" may be defined as "power, restrained."

And with this understanding in mind, you still attribute it to the god of the bible? You seem to have melded new age philosophy with Judaic doctrine...something the Judaic god wouldn't be too pleased with, I'll wager.

To be anti-God to protect your own "turf" undermines your own power still further, until you're left clinging, powerless, to a very dirty "security blanket"..

I don't see how being "pro-God" does me any good. It limits my flexibility and imagination, and undermines my respect and recognition of what I myself am capable of doing for myself and others around me THROUGH myself and others around me. This is about establishing mankind as a self-sustaining entity through a system of proactive self-determinism. There are no gods necessary for such a business plan as this one.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

It's just their often childish and bullying nature that I cannot stomach.

So you can't stomach atheists' "bullying" nature.........and yet Christianity is full of much much worse than bullying......they killed people for not believing in God,Jesus and the Bible.

So who are worse.......... those bad unholy atheists...........or those Holy riotous men of God?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by luciddream
in Hinduism every living thing has a soul... from a worm to a human... and people are reincarnated as worms because of their past atrocities as human,, when a human live a selfless life he is released from this world to Nirvana.

It good to learn other religion.. this is coming from an atheist to a religious person

Maybe being a worm would be nice, maybe being a worm would be Nirvana. I don't believe you are punished for doing 'bad' things and because this is the idea that has been fed throughout your life, you cannot experience Nirvana right now. Guilt and shame and the fear of getting it wrong and the idea that you will be punished is what stops you being in peace.

You can feel the bliss and the calm and be in love with the closest things around you in the light. It will not be nirvana since your mind will probably not be at rest when the world around you is in chaos and duality reigns but it can at least be a divine rest on your travels. .

I might enjoy being a cat or a dog. Having a loving family that I can play with and get petted and loved.

Originally posted by Logical one

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

It's just their often childish and bullying nature that I cannot stomach.

So you can't stomach atheists' "bullying" nature.........and yet Christianity is full of much much worse than bullying......they killed people for not believing in God,Jesus and the Bible.

So who are worse.......... those bad unholy atheists...........or those Holy riotous men of God?

edit on 15-7-2013 by Logical one because: (no reason given)

Both are bad both rooted in ignorance and misunderstanding. Killing of course is even worse.

P.S. This is the year 2013. Then again the war on terror is a type of war of ideologies between the Christianized world and the Islamist fundamentalists, and between Judaism and Islam.

To me Atheism is a war of ignorance against ignorance, but it's not killing anyone these days as far as I know.

The problem with it, is that it leaves us really as nothing but "things" or biological machines, which isn't congruent with reality or experience.