Is Christianity a Religion of War?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You mean through religious pluralism? I believe it could co-exist, as it does now, but not peacefully. The beliefs between the various religions make very different claims about the same god and the same universe. As of course you know. For that reason there will always be violent tension if we promote this kind of co-existence.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

Thinking some of you might appreciate this quote.

“We have a choice. We have two options as human beings. We have a choice between conversation and war. That's it. Conversation and violence. And faith is a conversation stopper.” ―Sam Harris

So in your opinion, coexistence - peaceful coexistence - is not an option?

IT has to be an option, otherwise nothing changes.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

You mean through religious pluralism? I believe it could co-exist, as it does now, but not peacefully. The beliefs between the various religions make very different claims about the same god and the same universe. As of course you know. For that reason there will always be violent tension if we promote this kind of co-existence.

Not pluralism, more a teeder-todder, a Dr. Dolittle 'pushme-pullyou llama', to a centered pinpoint, the exact leverage that allows both ideas to combine and be understood in the nature of opposites attracting and creating something BRAND NEW.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by guitarplayer

 

When Christ returns it will be to do battle against the anti-christ and those who stand with him. You will be given every chance to convert and then the end. Now where does it say we are to start wars?

What if we choose to stand on the side of neither "God" nor "Satan", but on the side of man? What if we choose to represent and serve mankind as a whole, and say to hell with the whole divine war fiasco? What's our reward then? Will he leave us alone...or will he destroy those of us who choose that option?

I have a sneaking suspicion that the point of the experiment is/was WHO SIDES WITH MANKIND FIRST. Who caves, who gives up to an 'undertaker, GOD OVERLORD'. Who stands for US as ITS children. Our reward, to understand and GET the reason for Being in the first place. God never intended us to be its servant, it is about recognising ourselves as a product of its MIND and as gross matter descibing it.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


I would much rather establish mankind as an independent entity. Why do we have to belong to or follow anyone? I find that counterproductive to our goal as a species.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

I would much rather establish mankind as an independent entity. Why do we have to belong to or follow anyone? I find that counterproductive to our goal as a species.

It should be, we are not children needing to be lead across an Egyptian desert being told lies by a bearded old man carrying a staff. I am for independance. We should have by now figured out our beings and why we incarnated. Its the words/works of the Bible that holds the YOLK to mankinds enlightenment. The Bible could be the slave manual for the human; read or not read outside that realm is hell. Disbelieve or believe is the same hell and one swallowed the scripture hook lined and sinkered. There seems to be no middle ground. We are now 4000 years beyond the 'pimer' childrens book. Why have we not evolved into another knowingness regarding ourselves and place upon this planet. The Bible Scriptures are obsolete in this day/age. They are antiquated nulifiyers to convince us we are slaves to a corrupt system of beliefs, not only the bible but all written script espousing a God tells you this/that and here is how to behave. The Ten Commandments functioned in that time period (treating man as animals with no morals). My question again, if Jesus died for all sins, was it past, current or potencial--free ride for immorality (all humans) saved of the committed sins potencial. I can now murder with impunity.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

IT has to be an option, otherwise nothing changes.

The change is to release ourselves from the chains that bind us.

Conversation isn't an option. Sam is right, faith is a conversation stopper. What's there to discuss between differing groups when each one thinks their beliefs are infallible and ordained by the creator of everything?

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


So if that is true then why am I not more warlike?

Nothing Jesus has taught me has caused me to want to take arms against another.

what are you chiefing on or do you just like to grind your axe against religion.

Islam is the religion of death and destruction, salvation through the spilling of blood which is not upheld by the Sevenfold Universe.

The Golden Rule is Christianity and under pins successful civilizations like what we have in the west unlike these other failed states along with failed untrue doctrines. Christians are not flooding into these other countries of failed ideas unto false doctrines.

I don't see Christian seeking plans to bomb their own despite variations. I don't see Christian calling out death to this and death to that eh! nor do I see Christians seeking plans for bombs directed by the worst teachers on the planet in apostate living will not walk Paradise.

They will all be judged and there is no escape and bending like a dead sick bullrush will make any difference as the end comes from the beginning and those who break the Golden Rule in deliberate Sin will never enter into Paradise by instead by judged by the Ancients of Days, the judges of personality survival.

reply to post by votan


Read your Bible friend. It's not just what Jesus said.... Rather a small portion actually. Most of it very clearly
promotes violence towards non believers, etc. Or do you dispute this

reply to post by sevens8


True. Or maybe not true. I addressed this in the very beginning of the thread. Is it Christianity historically? Is it the Christian Bible? If it's modern day Christians sure you might have a case. If it's the Christian Bible and Christians historically than no you definitely do not have a convincing one.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


I understand your "rage" and "hate" for religion but it is just another way of saying, "I hate God" or "I blame God for my terrible life" and your hate is targeting the wrong deity.

I have read your posts concerning religion and God and it is clear in your posts you do not believe in God or in Jesus. BUT for someone who does not believe you are on almost EVERY religion post/topic? Why is that? I do not waste my time on things that I hate, why do you?

Here is your answer:

I. God made a covenant with Abraham. Prior to Abraham's death his blessing went to Issac NOT Ishmael. Issac name changes to Israel, his ten sons; the ten tribes....etc...... God's chosen people.

Jews and Israelites are not the same .........two different types of people.

I have read the Torah, Misnah and Talmud, and the teachings of the sages....thank you.

LIVING BY THE LAW IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE but the Israelites try to.

Please no history lessons......('')

Jesus deity is not in question and there is sufficient proof of this in the bible. Anyone who claims to have read the NT with the guidance of the "Holy Spirit" clearly sees the miracles he preformed and is often talking in parables of who he is.

II. Jesus made a covenant with his followers.

Which one to pick? Hmmmm......? Which one is right? THEY BOTH ARE! Both require the sole worship of the one true God known as Jehovah or Yahweh. But under which convenant? Jesus said:

New International Version (©2011)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

A servant of God wants to get to know the one true God.......through study and worship. This is done daily not only on Sundays.

I only speak out against those who call themselves Christians but who are NOT. Please understand there are many people walking among you claiming to be Christians and they are not. I call them FAKE CHRISTIANS. I am often surprised how few Christians actually understand their faith and beliefs. Many of them have never read through the entire bible. They often preach apostasy and confuse the "masses" to the truth. And to those who twist and turn the words of the prophets and the teachings of Jesus ....... well lets just say there is a special place for you. ('')

I am 55 years old and I am still studying the word of God and the teachings within the bible. You make living way too hard! The older you get you will understand this....Stop arguing about things that only God has the answers too. Ask him... no one on this planet has the answers....we only speculate and theorize. Sixty six books in the Christian bible selected by people. Each bible author writing down what he observed in HIS words BUT then JESUS comes on the scene.......hundreds sometimes thousands of people witnessing his miracles... even raising the dead with hundreds of witnesses standing by. His words written down for his people.

P.S. Not everyone wants to know God or go to heaven. They prefer living in sin.

Many people do not know how to communicate with God. It is done in prayer with humility and respect. But more importantly you can not approach God because of your sins ONLY after your sins are forgiven can you approach God in prayer and since I am not an Israelite but a GENTILE the only way this is possible for ME is through JESUS, the son of God. Because I have accepted JESUS as my Lord and savior, the father, son and holy spirit in water baptism as a SYMBOL of my belief I ask God the father to forgive my debts and sins in JESUS name and he accepts my sacrifice........the blood of JESUS and his life he gave for all who believe in him and his teachings. God is a spirit and not flesh and bones. You must worship him with all your mind, body and SPIRIT. You know, that one inside you? Some times he answers me immediately and other times it is a day or maybe a week later and is not always what I wanted. I serve his will not mine. This does work......BUT it takes time, effort and energy on your part. If you go at this half-hearted than forget it. It will not work. If you do this for profit alone it will not work. Your heart must be in it.

Stop hating God and accept him for who he is. Hate the right one. Hate sin not the sinner. Hate Lucifer and the fallen ones for what they have done.

God is alive and so is Jesus. Ask them to come inside your heart..awaken and activate your "spirit"

There

reply to post by Fraudfinder


8. I have participated in 8 threads even remotely dealing with religion since I have been here. Hardly the prolific thread pouncer you paint me to be. Besides, this thread isn't about me, it is about Christianity. Lay off the personal attacks.

Nothing you have said contradicts or even addresses Christianity as a Religion of War. You state that you are often surprised how few Christians actually understand their faith and beliefs. This is what I am addressing in this post. How few of you are aware that Jesus made the statements I have addressed in the OP? I notice you haven't even touched on them, and choose to ignore these teaching in favor of a very surface and pat response of 'conversion' to Christianity or eternal suffering shall be mine.

SOunds pretty warlike to me.

Either you are with us, or you are against us, right?

reply to post by sevens8


So you defend Christianity by attacking Islam. Interesting choice for someone claiming Christianity isn't a War Religion. Christianity, and it's history as a religion, is filled with Christians making war with other Christians. One need look no further back in history than the Protestant/Catholic struggles in Northern Ireland.
Not having knowledge of conflict doesn't make the conflict go away. Jesus himself calls for death and destruction of non-believers multiple times in the Bible, as I have pointed out in the OP. Instead of merely ignoring this information, simply accept it as a teaching of Jesus and reconcile it within your life.

How do you reconcile the teachings of Jesus that call for death of non-believers with the Jesus that calls for his followers to turnn the other cheek?

reply to post by votan


I don't know. Many people that claim to follow the teachigs of Jesus don't act in accordance with his teachings. Do you follow all of his teachings? Maybe you have simply grown past the teachings of Jesus that call for the death of non-believers? I see that you aren't denying he said these things, so what do you think the reasons are for your lack of righteous bloodlust?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Don't forget making contraception a sin, but that's another thread.

reply to post by windsorblue


You say Christianity was never meant for destruction and war, but Jesus' own words tell another story. How do you reconcile the Jesus of Peace and the Jesus of Death? Is Death the only true Peace? Is this what is meant by Peace through Jesus?

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


I don't see Christians as Evil. I don't believe in the concept of Evil. My only point is to ask the questions.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Nothing was taken out of context. I even went out of my way to include entire passages or multiple verses instead of merely pointing out single verses to make my argument.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


He was refering to himself. No serious biblical scholar in the world has any interpretation of this parable that doesn't put Jesus as the noble man. I welcome you to try to find a desenting opinion.

reply to post by Awen24


Jesus requires the scriptures to be accurate, and his Gospels are no different in that regard. While Jesus supposedly doesnt 'require' war to return, he has made it known through words that he will not return until certain conditions are met. One of these is war on a global scale.

I don't understand how a Christian can want Jesus to return but not hope that each War is going to be the World War that brings him to them. It would be like opening a bag of candy and not hoping there is candy inside. Jesus is the reward Christians receive for enduring War.

----

I will get to more responses when I have time.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

I would much rather establish mankind as an independent entity. Why do we have to belong to or follow anyone? I find that counterproductive to our goal as a species.

If humanity becomes self sufficient and stop needing intervention all the time to sort out the mess, then that can probably be arranged. As long as humanity act as children guidance is needed.

I will quote Björk in this case:
"Army Of Me"

stand up
you've got to manage
i won't sympathize
anymore

and if you complain once more
you'll meet an army of me

you're allright
there's nothing wrong
self-sufficience please!
and get to work

and if you complain once more
you'll meet an army of me

you're on your own now
we won't save you
your rescue-squad
is too exhausted

and if you complain once more
you'll meet an army of me

reply to post by LittleByLittle

If humanity becomes self sufficient and stop needing intervention all the time to sort out the mess, then that can probably be arranged. As long as humanity act as children guidance is needed.

You can (and should) blame all that on "God"s fallacious designs. Which, I might add, he knew would fail, and still went ahead with. He's created enough that we recognize him as our ruler, but not enough that we can hold him responsible for the grievous mistakes he's made? What a load of malarky.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

8. I have participated in 8 threads even remotely dealing with religion since I have been here. Hardly the prolific thread pouncer you paint me to be. Besides, this thread isn't about me, it is about Christianity. Lay off the personal attacks.

Member since May 2013 and 8 religious posts? I would say that is a lot!!Text

Nothing you have said contradicts or even addresses Christianity as a Religion of War. You state that you are often surprised how few Christians actually understand their faith and beliefs. This is what I am addressing in this post. How few of you are aware that Jesus made the statements I have addressed in the OP? I notice you haven't even touched on them, and choose to ignore these teaching in favor of a very surface and pat response of 'conversion' to Christianity or eternal suffering shall be mine.

SOunds pretty warlike to me.

Either you are with us, or you are against us, right?

THAT IS CORRECT. A house can only have one master.

And you are correct about war. There is a war going on in the heavens and soon Lucifer and his followers will be cast down to earth well knowing their time has come.

God's chosen people know about war and they have been trained to be skilled warriors. They have fought in wars before and will fight again.

You are to pick......... who is your master? God? Failure to pick means the same as no. Everyone and everything will be judged by the one true God. You alone will answer for your sins.

There is a war going on for your soul.......do you even care?

reply to post by Fraudfinder

THAT IS CORRECT. A house can only have one master.

And you are correct about war. There is a war going on in the heavens and soon Lucifer and his followers will be cast down to earth well knowing their time has come.

God's chosen people know about war and they have been trained to be skilled warriors. They have fought in wars before and will fight again.

You are to pick......... who is your master? God? Failure to pick means the same as no. Everyone and everything will be judged by the one true God. You alone will answer for your sins.

There is a war going on for your soul.......do you even care?

Am I reading this correctly? You are apparently insisting that mankind must have a master. I thought we'd outgrown that sort of thing. Why do you need a master? Why can you not be your own master? I myself refuse to accept a master, and will gladly suffer the consequences of choosing to stand with mankind over any supernatural entity, whether they be benevolent or malignant. It will either be an equal partnership, or no relationship at all. We have spent far too long fighting for our right to freely determine our own destiny, and for independence from any monarchy. To spend hundreds, thousands of years in that respect, and then willingly forsake it all because we are promised eternal life, is madness.

Madness?

THIS - IS - HUMANITY!!!

Originally posted by Fraudfinder
There is a war going on for your soul.......do you even care?

Ah, here it is. Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

THAT IS CORRECT. A house can only have one master.

And you are correct about war. There is a war going on in the heavens and soon Lucifer and his followers will be cast down to earth well knowing their time has come.

God's chosen people know about war and they have been trained to be skilled warriors. They have fought in wars before and will fight again.

You are to pick......... who is your master? God? Failure to pick means the same as no. Everyone and everything will be judged by the one true God. You alone will answer for your sins.

There is a war going on for your soul.......do you even care?

Am I reading this correctly? You are apparently insisting that mankind must have a master. I thought we'd outgrown that sort of thing. Why do you need a master? Why can you not be your own master? I myself refuse to accept a master, and will gladly suffer the consequences of choosing to stand with mankind over any supernatural entity, whether they be benevolent or malignant. It will either be an equal partnership, or no relationship at all. We have spent far too long fighting for our right to freely determine our own destiny, and for independence from any monarchy. To spend hundreds, thousands of years in that respect, and then willingly forsake it all because we are promised eternal life, is madness.

Madness?

THIS - IS - HUMANITY!!!

edit on 15-7-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

REALLY? ('')

YOU PLAY WITH WORDS.

reply to post by Fraudfinder


I'm not playing with words right now. Every word in that post you quoted was sincere and wholeheartedly genuine. I will accept no master, and should the day come when I must choose a supernatural entity to serve, I will choose mankind. We are sentient beings who deserve the right to rule ourselves without the dictation of any supernatural power, and any supernatural power who cannot accept that, does not deserve my soul nor my service. That is where I stand on the subject.