Is Christianity a Religion of War?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

There is a magnitude of condoning death and violence in the Bible. At times from God himself apparently. For horrible asinine reasons that would throw someone in prison for their remaining days, or at the least be ostracized from friends and family.

As a result a huge amount of cognitive dissonance is created from the religious person while attempting to remain faithful and believing it's the 'Word of God'. Just doesn't jive with the part of them that is modernized. In order to reconcile, excuse after excuse is fabricated on the Bible's behalf.

Now saying Christianity is a religion of war to me depends on whether we are talking historically or the religion as it is today. I think Christianity is a religion of mind control. I feel this way about other religions as well.

edit on 13-7-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)

And a very effective mind control since they take real spiritual effects like chakra and nonduality and warp it so that you belive there might be truth there even when you see the opposite message. But maybe the information was once spiritual truth that got corrupted to become a religion of garment.

Judging Others

1“Do not judge so that you will not be judged.2“For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.3“Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?4“Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye?5“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

(Above is for me an reference for a blocked Third eye)

6“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Prayer and the Golden Rule

7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.8“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.9“Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone?10“Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he?11“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him! 12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

(That is true. If you really seek without ego and preconcieved notions then you will find connection/symbiosis with something unknown).

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

A Tree and Its Fruit

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

The funny thing is that Matthew 7 in the bible in my point of view tell people that the Christian view have been corrupted. The Christian view have not given peace in all the time it had and therefor is a bad tree that sometimes bear bad fruits.

But then it is an dualistic viewpoint where one view/religion is right and all other is wrong. The opposite would be a nondualistic view where the religions is trying to describe something but have problem getting the right words to describe it so that the people who are reading it is getting the exact nuance of what you are trying to describe.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Is Christianity a Religion of War?

Yes.

Is Christianity a Religion of Peace?

Yes, that too.

Christianity is like a jewel with many facets.

Which facet you focus on says a lot about you.

I think in a way you are right. I would maybe say a problem book that can change you to the better.

A person who is nice will only see the nice and loving. A person with dualistic hate will make everybody else to be sinners even if their behaviour is not unsymbiotic. I can be happy that it exits for those who find their way to higher understanding of the truth that way but am concerned about the ones who only find hate.

Your quote Matt 10 about he who loves son above me etc etc surely should send warning bells out to everyone because Christ taught that God was within all eg. he was in all so surely to love ones son is loving God through ones child. Its God's spark that brought that child to life in the first place. Its off kilter because of the idea that God is in everything so where is the line drawn between God's presence in that child and the chilod alolne?

I do think that it should be remembered that the bible was rewritten by an Emporer, non Jewish who had an agenda (like many others some obvious and some totally hidden) but that agenda was for world domination, or as much as was feasible to grab.

Its not so far fetched when one consideres the size of the British Empire. We breed psychopaths with insatiable powers of dominence. Its that drive, however they choose to use it, that gets them to the top.

If you take the break when Christianity was basically created on top of Christ's teachings, by Eraneaus's writings at the behest of an Emperor, that you see that the purpose of Christianity and its many missionaries from that time on, to get converts the peaceful way, was the velvet glove of dominence with an army in the background.

I find with Christianity that Christ's teachings are the important part and the rest, is completely man-made for a certain group of men in frocks - who have given themselves an escalator to dominance, without which one would never even consider listening to them in the first place. One only has to listen to the inane comments they say when called upon for either comfort or leadership.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


"The natural man(Carnally Minded) does not accept the things of the spirit of God for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14)

*** ATTENTION ***

Look folks; Religion is a deeply personal and profound choice for every single one of us, no matter what our beliefs - even if our choice is to not believe at all. Due to the level of personal introspection and intimacy involved with these feelings, we tend to be very defensive about whatever it is that we have decided to believe.

That is perfectly fine and totally worthy of respect and consideration.

I repeat... worthy of respect and consideration. From all of us - to all of us.

That was the polite version.

The direct ( therefore difficult to play the ambiguity card about ) version is: Please quit the personal jabs. Now. Period. From this point forward posts that are deemed to be seated in or which contain personal attacks will be removed and the poster will potentially face posting or account banning.

If you cannot make you point in a respectful and polite manner... best not to make it at all.

Thank you.

reply to post by poundpuppy


Right, so what it is saying here, is that it is even worse in the spiritual realm than it is here...so get ready to be even crazier and when you explore spirituality to realize the actual wars between "Gods" is very real, and the victor is not known, but hopes to gain your support.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
reply to post by ParasuvO

 

In what manner is it so complex that you don't understand it?

I do understand it, quite well.

I just realize it is far more complex than what Christians believe.

They really strive as hard as possible to believe the story that all of this is due to the best of intentions by there creator, that a fall occurred.

Amazingly they strive with incredible effort to imagine this heaven and hell paradigm that is sent to them by forces unknown, the ones they believe they access telepathically have blocked all paths outside of these realms by accident, but surely have created this hologram for an energy source.. and as a possible gateway out.

Trying to believe that getting into a spiritual fervor that will make it all okay inside there minds, is akin to being reprogrammed to actually align with one side over another, without actually EVER KNOWING the real reason for there existence, but just falling into a path with no escape, RELISHING the fact that they will never know, because they believe all will be revealed to them. lol.

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Is Christianity a Religion of War?

Yes.

Is Christianity a Religion of Peace?

Yes, that too.

Christianity is like a jewel with many facets.

Which facet you focus on says a lot about you.

I think in a way you are right. I would maybe say a problem book that can change you to the better.

A person who is nice will only see the nice and loving. A person with dualistic hate will make everybody else to be sinners even if their behaviour is not unsymbiotic. I can be happy that it exits for those who find their way to higher understanding of the truth that way but am concerned about the ones who only find hate.

Yes indeed I am right.

The OP doesn't realize that the war metaphor is first and foremost a war of perspectives. The OP has a perspective which is "at war" with the multitude of Christian perspectives... he is at war with every facet of the jewel. Indeed, he is at war with the perspectives of world religion and myth.

He could gain peace through understanding.

But he can't do that without overcoming his myopic focus on the war dimension.

It takes two to tango.

Birth, sex, war, suffering, death... and other facts of life pleasant and forlorn. Religion affirms them all and uses them all as metaphors.

Put down your weapons, OP. Become familiar and friendly with the coincidence of opposites.

the pleasant and forlorn
the lily and the thorn
all these declare
God is there

-Rumi

reply to post by guitarplayer

When Christ returns it will be to do battle against the anti-christ and those who stand with him. You will be given every chance to convert and then the end. Now where does it say we are to start wars?

What if we choose to stand on the side of neither "God" nor "Satan", but on the side of man? What if we choose to represent and serve mankind as a whole, and say to hell with the whole divine war fiasco? What's our reward then? Will he leave us alone...or will he destroy those of us who choose that option?

I have a laundry list of details that get under my skin and bolster my doubt in this subject, but that's one of the biggest. Surely someone who really cares wouldn't destroy us just because we don't do exactly what they want us to do. If any of us choose to remain independent from "God"s rule, the first reaction should not be "kill them all". That's not righteous or benevolent in the least.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


Yes but it depends how you define war, the sword is the two edged sword of truth that cuts both ways, He can wield it as he is true and innocent, never lied and lived in the truth.
We are at war with the devil (the father of lies).
We are at war with the anti-Christ (the false messiah and the false prophet).
We are at war with sin.
Most of this is fought through prayer and faith, usually internal to the individual.

reply to post by LABTECH767

Yes but it depends how you define war, the sword is the two edged sword of truth that cuts both ways, He can wield it as he is true and innocent, never lied and lived in the truth.

Arguing semantics now? "The end justifies the means"? That's some real noble stuff.

We are at war with the devil (the father of lies).

How do you know he's a liar? He's never had a chance to tell his story. You just took your god's word for it. I don't find that convincing in the least. Only fools carry rumors, you know.

We are at war with the anti-Christ (the false messiah and the false prophet).

More rumors. You don't have the slightest clue as to how psychology or military strategy works, do you? It wouldn't take much to trick people like you. After all, you trick yourself and you don't even realize it.

We are at war with sin.

Why? Is imperfection too much of an inconvenience? Why do you fight what you are? Sin is the process of trial and error. There is no other way to learn without being born a perfect and utterly mastered being. In which case, why be born at all? There's no point to living if you're perfect.

Most of this is fought through prayer and faith, usually internal to the individual.

More psychological tricks. You should take a few courses on that.

See, here's what I don't get. Why does "God" wage war against that which defines him the most? Why does the candle seek to illuminate the shadow when the shadow is the sole reason the candle has any value at all? The moment "Satan" is gone, there will be no reason for "God". Light and dark are inseparable, yet they insist on being incompatible as well. Oh wait, that's just the light. The light isn't satisfied with being defined by the shadow. Apparently, the shadow is a symptom of the light's own failing. The shadow is a sign of the light's imperfect reach. But what if the shadow is a sign of the light's perfect and simple purpose? They need each other. Without one, the other has nothing. And yet...they wage war.

Sounds like some severe disorder to me.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I may disagree with you on many things but your take on sin is interesting, the meaning really derives from failure and yes we all fail, a sailing ship need's the wind to fill it's sails and just maybe as a race we need to keep getting back up to make it.
I take MY god's word because 'I am that I am" created us and the devil tried many times to claim he was God were he was merely a being like the others whom "I am that I am" created, the devil in his original form is dead but his army of corruption and that presence that was an echo of him in possession still remains'.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


I see your point Is Christianity a Religion of War? Christians are Evil...

reply to post by LABTECH767

I take MY god's word because 'I am that I am" created us and the devil tried many times to claim he was God were he was merely a being like the others whom "I am that I am" created, the devil in his original form is dead but his army of corruption and that presence that was an echo of him in possession still remains'.

Sometimes, in order for some things to remain important, we need to salvage something of what MAKES those things important...otherwise, we forget. Or we think we don't need them. Because we no longer have a reason for them. Kindness. Compassion. Understanding. Love. What if these things become so commonplace that people forget why they are there? What if they become so pervasive that we no longer notice them until they are no longer there? That's why we need BOTH sides of the coin. Each side thinks the other makes it look uglier, or detracts from its meaning, when its precisely the opposite: each side only means something because the other exists.

Everything you hold dear about this war you are waging against sin, every reason you have to fight that war, is only important because of the very things you seek to eradicate. Once the war is over and there is no longer anything to fight...what is there to give love and kindness meaning? There's a reason we never know what we have until its gone.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


In my humble opinion the teachings of Jesus is not one of war, 'Turn the other cheek' and 'The meek shall inherit the Earth' is not a great slogan for the military. Mankind has always found a reason to make war, and religion is undoubtedly the cause of the majority of those, even in these modern times, George Bush even stated that God told him to invade Iraq,[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk...] . The Bible has been changed and edited throughout the century's that we cannot be sure to what information has been lost or misconstrued in translation (The 'camel through the eye of a needle' statement for instance is misleading, the original manuscript said ' rope through the eye of a needle').

As it has been mentioned before in other threads in this forum, various councils in the early years of Christendom selected the various Gospels for the New Testament. The book of revelations nearly didn't make it because it was thought to be the delusional writings of hermit, not the Apostle John ( Do you're own research if you don't believe me. ) . We will never know what teachings or information has been lost to the ages through this editing process, or what aspects of doctrine were changed to reflect the politics of those times. Just imagine if a piece of authenticated papyrus were to be discovered stating that Jesus wanted his church to be governed by woman only, organised religious factions would refute this with a passion rather loosing their self made exalted positions

Christendom was never intended to cause death and destruction, it was humanity (manly those who had power)who has misused it as a tool to justify death and destruction on others, this is only my beliefs and is not written to cause conflict, but organised religion has a lot to answer for.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The war itself (or struggle) will never be over and the devil may be one of a long line of such embodiment's created just for such, but the elders are the only one's other than the ONE that know, remember how Jesus actually embodied the struggle on the cross - he took our sin's and cancelled our debt (not the failure but the evil and the doom it held), he defeated it but all too often we are defeated by it, the weak are weeded out and then refined once more.
The devil as such is a confidence trickster to some, a kind old man to others but he is always a lier, "Oh poor, poor "Enter the name here", I feel so, so, sorry for you, you are going to have such a bad terrible sad life, I'll tell you what, Give me your soul and I will give you a wonderful, wonderful life, My name is Satan",. Now when the devil uses such tricks on a young soul he is lying and the truth is he means give me all you have or I will destroy it.
For you it is metaphysical and philosophical, pray that you never encounter that wheezing voiced old hissing lying man.
The devil seeks only one thing and that is to destroy you, your soul, your life and he will use you only as long as it suit's him but the ONE offers eternity and a place of purpose.

reply to post by LABTECH767

The devil seeks only one thing and that is to destroy you, your soul, your life

Then why hasn't your god destroyed him and completed his utopic vision?

Thinking some of you might appreciate this quote.

“We have a choice. We have two options as human beings. We have a choice between conversation and war. That's it. Conversation and violence. And faith is a conversation stopper.”
― Sam Harris

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

I don't think the modern incarnation of Christianity concerns itself with conversion as much as previous incarnations have. Conversion is the tool I most often associate with Mind Control, trying to control your mind (and your offspring's minds) through indoctrination.

How do they maintain their numbers?

Indoctrinating children

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Thinking some of you might appreciate this quote.

“We have a choice. We have two options as human beings. We have a choice between conversation and war. That's it. Conversation and violence. And faith is a conversation stopper.” ―Sam Harris

So in your opinion, coexistence - peaceful coexistence - is not an option?