Italian Neurosurgeon says he is ready to transplant heads...

I see where this is going, and I like the direction.

Not the head transplant as it stands (doner body anyone?). But like in short term, (maybe 50) cloned body to head, and down the line, brain in a robot.

I am all for it.

The answer to the question the ops poses is yes..if I had 15 million to blow and was going to die unless I tried this new thing...I would try the new thing. That is how progress works.

of course this part makes me laugh:

Perhaps all those people who have had their heads cryogenically frozen weren't out of their minds after all.

Of course not...the people whom were laughing at it are the same ones that ate paint chips as a kid and thinks wrestling is real.

Years ago there was a minor scandal related to Kentucky Fried Chicken. They were taking fertilized chicken eggs and manipulating the DNA so the chicken was born without a head. Actually it was only this year that
they converted over to Tyson Chickens and it became there policy to do this about 10 years ago.

They cited that this process was much cleaner the chicken was assisted at birth when it was ready. Wires were placed into its neck that provided food to the body. In so far as the feces that was produced it was much easier to collect and it does have a commercial value.

While never of course attempted on humans a person hypothetically could clone his or her body, without a head.

Once the body matured they could then have there heads attached to the body.

Given a persons cells are there own property and that is what is being used to make the clone. During the process when Doctors are working with the initial cell they manipulate the DNA.

The clone never experienced individuality and therefore was never conscious and so could be construed as a product like a car.

Yeah something that is very bizarre but also possible with todays technology with respect to the OP

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Kashai
Years ago there was a minor scandal related to Kentucky Fried Chicken. They were taking fertilized chicken eggs and manipulating the DNA so the chicken was born without a head. Actually it was only this year that
they converted over to Tyson Chickens and it became there policy to do this about 10 years ago.

They cited that this process was much cleaner the chicken was assisted at birth when it was ready. Wires were placed into its neck that provided food to the body. In so far as the feces that was produced it was much easier to collect and it does have a commercial value.

While never of course attempted on humans a person hypothetically could clone his or her body, without a head.

Once the body matured they could then have there heads attached to the body.

Given a persons cells are there own property and that is what is being used to make the clone. During the process when Doctors are working with the initial cell they manipulate the DNA.

The clone never experienced individuality and therefore was never conscious and so could be construed as a product like a car.

Yeah something that is very bizarre but also possible with todays technology with respect to the OP

Any thoughts?

Bingo, and yes, that would be a fantastic business to get into. could have a growing body going at any given time, could do a head transplant every 15 or so years when you abused the former one enough, etc...depending on cost anyhow. Might even be cheaper to just get a new body than deal with say, open heart surgery and therefore covered by health insurance..not to mention if you get a new body, you can successfully abolish retirement age, social security, etc...taxpayers forever.

Now that is a program of all winners...corporate to customer.

Originally posted by Pixiefyre
Well that's just dandy! My husband has always said that when he goes he wants his head cryogenic ally frozen so that he can eventually go on to think more and learn more. It's always been a bit of a creepy thought for me, having someone decapitate my husbands head after he's gone and I honestly assumed that the technology would never be THERE to make it work for him.

Now what can I do!!!

Why would you possibly think that?

our medical knowledge is barely getting out of the dark ages (drill hole to let bad mojo out) and already we can do some pretty amazing things (comparatively) such as artificial hearts and the like.

I am actually surprised that its not already a simple norm at this point (was expecting about 2000 for cloned parts to be readily available...damn stem cell legislation on morality holding civilization back...as usual)

Yes, he is right, you are wrong, now get your head on ice already...or not..some people simply don't want to live extended lives if possible.

But, they still need to resolve the "freezer burn" issues of cryogenics anyhow. so, its not like it will be happening tomorrow...this tech is initially for the living..once they can repair cell bursting, then they can work on the heads

This is awesome. I don't see why anyone would want to get their head put onto a human though?

I'm getting mine put onto a silverback gorilla. BRB pretty much the same body as a human but can bench press 10,000 lbs. Also free food, can just eat trees. Guaranteed job in the NFL.

Originally posted by Logical one
Sure there are ethical issues to overcome, but I suspect eventually they will be overcome,

I hope not. there is nothing unethical about it...about as ethical as any other transplant I guess..and a very strong case for really ramping up cloning tech.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
But, they still need to resolve the "freezer burn" issues of cryogenics anyhow. so, its not like it will be happening tomorrow...this tech is initially for the living..once they can repair cell bursting, then they can work on the heads

I honestly think it would still work. You'd just need to stay frozen until they can also fix the freezer burn. Like nanobots going through and fixing all the freezing damage in 100 years or something crazy like that.

Originally posted by RedDragon

Originally posted by SaturnFX
But, they still need to resolve the "freezer burn" issues of cryogenics anyhow. so, its not like it will be happening tomorrow...this tech is initially for the living..once they can repair cell bursting, then they can work on the heads

I honestly think it would still work. You'd just need to stay frozen until they can also fix the freezer burn. Like nanobots going through and fixing all the freezing damage in 100 years or something crazy like that.

Yes, time and tech will resolve the freezing issues no doubt.

Another option for the wealthy to cheat the undertaker...no problem with that, I just want it to eventually be available for the rest of the plebs.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by RedDragon

Originally posted by SaturnFX
But, they still need to resolve the "freezer burn" issues of cryogenics anyhow. so, its not like it will be happening tomorrow...this tech is initially for the living..once they can repair cell bursting, then they can work on the heads

I honestly think it would still work. You'd just need to stay frozen until they can also fix the freezer burn. Like nanobots going through and fixing all the freezing damage in 100 years or something crazy like that.

Yes, time and tech will resolve the freezing issues no doubt.

Another option for the wealthy to cheat the undertaker...no problem with that, I just want it to eventually be available for the rest of the plebs.

It's available for any first world citizen right now. Anyone has the choice to make enough money to afford it. Personally, I'm very forward looking; it's the only motivation I have to earn a lot of money in a good job and investments. Else, I'd go live in the woods or work an easier job and enjoy all my free time.. This has been my single motivation since I was around 10-15. I'm essentially sacrificing ever having a family during my natural life to get this.

Most people simply don't want to. Either not forward looking enough or just don't want to live that long. But, to me, it has enough of a reward that it's worth orientating your entire existence towards getting.

Originally posted by RedDragon
Most people simply don't want to. Either not forward looking enough or just don't want to live that long. But, to me, it has enough of a reward that it's worth orientating your entire existence towards getting.

edit on 7/12/13 by RedDragon because: (no reason given)

I suspect your very young.
I used to think that way also when I was young. Was all about focusing on getting the cryogenics sorted out. 30k doesn't seem like that much actually
Then life happens, bills, etc...and one year posepones to the next, and before you know it. 3k is (for the average income earner) something to be happy about saving, much less 10 times that amount...for a company that has had problems in the past (dethawing, dodgy employees playing kickball with heads, etc).

I hope this adds legitimency to the hypothesis and gets competition going (and lower cost for cryo). I read a good book (The First Immortal) and once it was proven this could in fact work, cryogenic storage went from this strange fringe thing to mainstream to arguably almost a human right within a few short years.

I am not sure what will act as a catalyst for that motion, but for many/most, it is currently unavailable or unreasonable for them and their situation. Try not to blanket paint everyone..circumstances dictate everything in life.
As the expression goes, Man plans, God laughs.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Back in the 70's there was a researcher who concluded that without the body the brain could live 500 years, of course as long as all its nutritionals were met.

From the original cell it would take at least 16 to 21 years before a clone would reach full maturity. With respect to making an exacting connections later is better. This would be more along the lines of a person delivering his or her cells at the age of 40 and going into surgery at the age of 62.

There are rather relevant legal issues as well like if a person is accused of murder and are sentenced to 500 years (as in common in really bad cases)do they get transplants that allow for them to actually carry out such a sentence?

What about those who are born with disabilities such as those of us with IQ's of 50?

Some time ago I spoke about this in a threat I started here at ATS. This is a technology that has incredible potential from both sides of the spectrum and in that context a balance will need to be found.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by RedDragon
Most people simply don't want to. Either not forward looking enough or just don't want to live that long. But, to me, it has enough of a reward that it's worth orientating your entire existence towards getting.

edit on 7/12/13 by RedDragon because: (no reason given)

I suspect your very young.
I used to think that way also when I was young. Was all about focusing on getting the cryogenics sorted out. 30k doesn't seem like that much actually
Then life happens, bills, etc...and one year posepones to the next, and before you know it. 3k is (for the average income earner) something to be happy about saving, much less 10 times that amount...for a company that has had problems in the past (dethawing, dodgy employees playing kickball with heads, etc).

I hope this adds legitimency to the hypothesis and gets competition going (and lower cost for cryo). I read a good book (The First Immortal) and once it was proven this could in fact work, cryogenic storage went from this strange fringe thing to mainstream to arguably almost a human right within a few short years.

I am not sure what will act as a catalyst for that motion, but for many/most, it is currently unavailable or unreasonable for them and their situation. Try not to blanket paint everyone..circumstances dictate everything in life.
As the expression goes, Man plans, God laughs.

We have human rights b/c we're sentient. What happens to 'rights' when sentience is a millionth of a dime a dozen? Like you go out get lunch, get a soda, and your soda bottle has human level intelligence and self-awareness.. Or say a sentience generating machine that's programmed to generate a new 'personality' every single zillionth of a second.. Etc.

If we pretend that a sentience automatically has a right to life, healthcare, etc.. How will you ever guarantee and provide those rights to trillions, zillions of 'humans'?

I'm assuming (and hope) that future artificial sentiences get the same rights as humans.. There are only 2 ways to balance out the equation: 1) Lower the amount of rights 2) Limit the amount of sentiences. 1 is easy enough. 2 occurs via genocide or 'merging' sentiences.

I hope we go the peaceful route of 2 where most sentiences merge together, thus limiting the 'quantity of rights' that need to be guaranteed.. But I'm going to be prepared for anything.

reply to post by Rodinus

It doesn’t help that the scientists who perform cryonics say they haven’t successfully revived anyone, and don’t expect to be able to do so anytime soon

The clinics already know and freely discuss this.

It's not a "rip off" or a "scam". The people involved know it's an uncertainty.

They do it in the hope that in the future the technology will be there.

I wouldn't even trust this guy with my other head.

Amazing and inevitable.Our first baby steps toward immortality.You bet there's going to be many ethical questions arising.Î HOPE the philophers handle these questions as opposed to the politicians and corporate masters.

reply to post by RedDragon


What happens is that it expands into the solar system and beyond as this planet cannot support that many people.

As far as having rights that depends upon the behavior of local governments and the ability of the
overriding authority to enforce its mandates.

Like living in the 1600's our society is on the verge of another
great migration.

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Back in the 70's there was a researcher who concluded that without the body the brain could live 500 years, of course as long as all its nutritionals were met.

The brain can live for as long as it has the proper building blocks, the 500 year thing is basically a space issue. I remember reading about that (telomeres being the first obstacle to get us beyond 125, then the brain at 500). I don't see that as a issue considering by the point of us being able to survive (our brain anyhow) for half a eon, we will definitely have the tech for memory chips and the like..hell, even nanoprobes being able to be a storage system. Once we are at that point, such matters will be trivial, but, we will just be a brain in a box somewhere living in VR...fine with that also mind you...it is our evolution. Kurzweil has said as much..and since he has produced as much as he has hypothesized, his views are relevant.

From the original cell it would take at least 16 to 21 years before a clone would reach full maturity. With respect to making an exacting connections later is better. This would be more along the lines of a person delivering his or her cells at the age of 40 and going into surgery at the age of 62.

I would imagine after some testing, they can possibly fast track the growth and halve the wait. but yeah, that sounds about right if its grown totally natural.

There are rather relevant legal issues as well like if a person is accused of murder and are sentenced to 500 years (as in common in really bad cases)do they get transplants that allow for them to actually carry out such a sentence?

I would think that would be a choice by the convicted to make...do you want to hang out for 500, or just die. I would think that long would be cruel and unusual punishment though. But, if someone was sentenced to 60 years or the like, chances are they would very much be serving that long. But a restructuring of the legal system would be in order. Nothing should be for life when life could be a open ended number of years chosen by the individual

What about those who are born with disabilities such as those of us with IQ's of 50?

Choice also I would think. Just like any other surgery to extend years we have today.

Some time ago I spoke about this in a threat I started here at ATS. This is a technology that has incredible potential from both sides of the spectrum and in that context a balance will need to be found.

edit on 12-7-2013 by Kashai because: modifed content

Right now, the only balance seems to be heavily tipped away from progressing our species. There is huge favoritism towards the way things are now, growing old and dying cycle. This does make some sense for matters of property and the like (gov makes bank when people die and taxes are paid), not to mention the workforce issue...imagine being in a company for 500 years in the same low position because nobody ever died, therefore positions never opened up). But I think such things could easily be overcome..especially if the ultimate designation is the brain in the box thing where resources are negligible...say after 150 years, you relinquish all holdings of any physical property and are basically sent to the internet for the rest of time...something like that..but this is far off sci-fi talk.

Still interesting to think about though.
For now, this transplant tech is a great baby step towards that path

Originally posted by RedDragon[/i
We have human rights b/c we're sentient. What happens to 'rights' when sentience is a millionth of a dime a dozen? Like you go out get lunch, get a soda, and your soda bottle has human level intelligence and self-awareness.. Or say a sentience generating machine that's programmed to generate a new 'personality' every single zillionth of a second.. Etc.

If we pretend that a sentience automatically has a right to life, healthcare, etc.. How will you ever guarantee and provide those rights to trillions, zillions of 'humans'?

I'm assuming (and hope) that future artificial sentiences get the same rights as humans.. There are only 2 ways to balance out the equation: 1) Lower the amount of rights 2) Limit the amount of sentiences. 1 is easy enough. 2 occurs via genocide or 'merging' sentiences.

I hope we go the peaceful route of 2 where most sentiences merge together, thus limiting the 'quantity of rights' that need to be guaranteed.. But I'm going to be prepared for anything.

edit on 7/12/13 by RedDragon because: (no reason given)

I can program a computer to say it feels and loves. That doesn't mean the computer can...I simply programmed it to say that.
Self identity. Sentience..what is it? it is a complex question. When does a machine become more than its spare parts.
That is a discussion worth having once we start treading on those lines. But for now, we aren't close to that. So...its just a hypothetical query. Some rights..hell, property at times can have more rights than humans already. so, the right to what...vote? I suspect that will be a long way off..(although machine leaders may be a hell of a lot better than human moron ones that are just corruption machines)