The Language of Vampyr

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

If it's any consolation to you Kev, I have never for even one second entertained even the slightest suspicion that you and Direne might be the same person -

- I have too much respect for you to think that you'd bother wasting your time having dialogues with 'yourself' in ATS threads!

With Zero intentions to troll at all. Yes, Kev. We should probably listen to Mama Diane. Because she knows what is best, especially for you. As for the Tree of Life, I just thought emergence is coming. But probably not. The only thing emerging is Cryptocurrencies, Covid19, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Clowns.

Yes, Direne was right. I graduated at Clowns University in Pennsylvania where I met Dracula and shared the secrets of Immortality with me. You best believe me cause I ain't trying to hide at all.

FL is interesting . . .


The tree of life?

A tree of life.

The difference is important. So much is in the choice of "The" or "A". The The excludes and occults.

The tree of life I know nothing about for it is behind closed doors.

A tree of life suggests there is more than one.

Where is this tree pray tell? Upon which mystic mountaintop did you glimpse such high heavens of arcane knowledge?

Do not waste your time upon the mountain top. If it is a tree you seek, you will not find it there.

The temple? A shrine? Which one? I must know!

That too is a waste of time young man if you truly want to know.

Who has this knowledge? Where are they to be found?

My advice to you young man is to go home and marry your girl. On your wedding night; you will find your tree.

You are mad old man! Nothing do you know!

The young man stomps off in disgust and joins a monastery in the hope that suffering and abstinence will show him the way.

The old man simply smiled and went home to his family and evening meal.

So what is the point of this you ask?

Well, the trees of life are vast and there is one for every kind of life. The fruit of which is hidden behind an easily lifted veil.

Within the fruit is created the self, layers and layers of self, and within those layers of self is created a physical form. Living things, man and woman, cats and dogs; life comes from a tree.

The Key to understanding the fruit is the thymus gland hidden behind the heart. For that is where the essence of the life so far is created and stored.

It is the ovaries and testes that create a reflection of the essence above. The essence of two lives makes a third.

Tell me old man! Where can I find this tree!

The old man thought for a moment.

'Tis the fairy folk who showed me this. . . . . . .

The fruit of a tree of life . . . .

is hidden . . . .

behind the veil . . . .

of a maiden's skirt.

A maiden's womb is simply the fruit of a tree.

If you want to know the secrets of life young man, go home and marry your girl.

originally posted by: boozo
With Zero intentions to troll at all. Yes, Kev. We should probably listen to Mama Diane. Because she knows what is best, especially for you. As for the Tree of Life, I just thought emergence is coming. But probably not. The only thing emerging is Cryptocurrencies, Covid19, Robotics, Artificial Intelligence, and Clowns.

Yes, Direne was right. I graduated at Clowns University in Pennsylvania where I met Dracula and shared the secrets of Immortality with me. You best believe me cause I ain't trying to hide at all.

Because she knows what is best, especially for you

I don't know if you've noticed, but I have not adopted one single word or practice from any historical or non-historical person, and this includes Direne.

I just thought emergence is coming

Yes, a form of emergence is coming, technological emergence enforced by rape.

As for your ego, please note that I did not attack you in any way, did not denigrate you, and I provided a reference that was directly on target for your question.

The 'tree of life' is a representation of the body of Adam Kadmon (or Seth), the 'cosmic Adam'.

That sounds good on paper, but it's not accurate; and the very concept itself, of a 'cosmic Adam' is pretty dicey.

I must agree with you mr. Boozo, that one moment Direne greatly protests about bullying, but then the next moment does some (light) bullying of her own.

We could all use improvement!

Kev

PS: If you wish to make your case, about your vision for emergence, that would be fascinating. Don't let some old man like me keep you from investigating your thoughts or making them come true, if you have the strength to do that. I welcome every sentient being, to come dogpile me if they like, and if my positions change, FOR THE BETTER, then I welcome that, as there is nothing better than learning.

a reply to: NobodySpecial268

My advice to you young man is to go home and marry your girl. On your wedding night; you will find your tree.

One cannot begin to comprehend 'divine male' and 'divine female' if one flees for the monastery, when the real crucible of creation is in the home.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Ermm, I just realised the unintended innuendo (on my part at least)

The fairy folk have a wicked sense of humour, they run rings around me. ; )

originally posted by: NobodySpecial268
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Ermm, I just realised the unintended innuendo (on my part at least)

The fairy folk have a wicked sense of humour, they run rings around me. ; )

So where did you find your longer quote? It was actually much closer to correct than most quotes one sees.

I found it charming.

The problem with 'divine male' and 'divine female' is that both the word 'divine' and the words 'male and female' are human concepts, that don't translate well into physics.

But if you wish to do the old platonic allegory analysis on them, it can lead to some interesting (but wrong) insights.

There does seem to be a 'bit' of truth to the human body having tie ins to something 'greater', and that's what 'kundalini yoga is about' or other forms of Tantra or even something like your 'merging of shells' practice.

What saddens me, is that it should be demonstrable in a lab.. then we could put away 10,000 years of disinformation.

Kev

I rarely get excited about a book, but this one might be a humdinger!

Cognitive Archaeology

I hope that someday soon, that everything I know, and that I think I know, will be as trash on the side of the road, with more clear versions available, and somewhat vetted by science. (Godel's Incompleteness Theorum applies for all time however).

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

one moment Direne greatly protests about bullying, but then the next moment does some

Unfair, and clearly disproportionate. My protest was fully sounded, and valid. However, I tend to teach by example, for I found it is the only way humans learn. You can certainly explain people to not bully, and they verily understand how wicked their behaviour is, yet they will keep on doing it because harming others causes them pleasure, or because doing evil onto others is the only way they have to be someome. The only possible treatment is therefore putting those people in front of a mirror. A thoroughly polished mirror that reflects back to them their pathological condition.

And building those mirrors is something one has to learn. Takes a lifetime.

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

one moment Direne greatly protests about bullying, but then the next moment does some

Unfair, and clearly disproportionate. My protest was fully sounded, and valid. However, I tend to teach by example, for I found it is the only way humans learn. You can certainly explain people to not bully, and they verily understand how wicked their behaviour is, yet they will keep on doing it because harming others causes them pleasure, or because doing evil onto others is the only way they have to be someome. The only possible treatment is therefore putting those people in front of a mirror. A thoroughly polished mirror that reflects back to them their pathological condition.

And building those mirrors is something one has to learn. Takes a lifetime.

Please take this question straight up, don't assume i'm playing games, i'm asking because I want the information.

Direne, you personally, do you feel that it is your place to 'teach humans'?

I'd also like to know if FL wishes to 'teach humans', but you don't have to answer that unless you wish to do so.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Not, at all. What I meant was that people here started insulting us, without any clue of who we are or who we are not; started creating secret teams (as per your information) to discover what FL is or is not, and all of this based on their sacred unchallenged believe FL is nefarious, or a psyop, or whatever their deranged minds entertain.

We do respect others' views (we really don't care), but the moment they cross the red line of ad hominem attacks, and fall into the bullying terrain, we can become extremely nasty. One thing should be clear to all players in the Internet: anonymity does not exist. Everyone here is pinned down, nailed down, identified.

The golden rule: treat others as you want them to treat you. Otherwise, be brave to face whatever consequence derives from your acts. Was I clear?

a reply to: Direne

You were clear, thank you!

But I was hoping for more.

In the West, at least, it's presumed that everyone is supposed to be the same, just another confused human, struggling with the issues of life, and that we should just let our 'betters' (the people stealing all our money and making our culture toxic) control us.

It would have greatly cheered my heart, if you had said you wished to teach humans. I admire people who take that upon themselves. In the modern world, that generally gets one accused of mental illness. How wretched!

I view that all of us should wish to be teachers, when we think we have something to share, and that all of us should wish to be students, in areas of which we are ignorant. And to not be shy bout it.

I myself, other than some odds and ends from my 35 years or so in nuclear engineering and information technology, largely am infused with my observations about facing life head on, no matter the cost, and the ramifications that result form that. So I write about that stuff.

As regards FL,

Humans can't stop picking at a 'mystery'. They will go literally insane when presented with one. (thus the formation of Religion and UFOlogy, etc).

FL presents as a mystery.

Direne presents as a mystery.

I'ts frankly nobody's business what FL does or believes in, but the 'secrecy' has become toxic, which isn't your fault, but are you perhaps also, to some minor degree your 'brother's keeper'?

Maybe if you wrote a 1 page document stating your guiding principles and major interests this toxic crap would stop.

I myself decided recently, to pair back on the secrecy to the absolute minimum, and I'm liking the results.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Brothers' keepers is an interesting concept. I am trying to find an analogy, and the only one that comes to me is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, two cities who belonged to the Disk Covenant. The cities were destroyed by two angels. Would you call them brothers' keepers ?

As for the other questions you pose, you have surely noticed I did not answer zero_one questions (see above), but it is really interesting he picked up the post in FL he did, as it answers a lot of your questions.

Teaching would be really great, I agree. But teaching people when you know the timeline is fixed, and fully deterministic, is something I am not ready to do. Just cannot. We at FL had once a long debate about mentoring, teaching, helping others, even when you know how the future is. In other words: imagine you could travel back in time, knowing that you cannot change the timeline at all; has teaching any sense in that situation?

a reply to: Direne

Brothers' keepers is an interesting concept. I am trying to find an analogy, and the only one that comes to me is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, two cities who belonged to the Disk Covenant. The cities were destroyed by two angels. Would you call them brothers' keepers ?

I'd first say that reports of a higher than normal background radiation level around those two cities, and the misunderstanding around that leads to suboptimal outcomes.

I'd also say, that I've never met an 'angel' that I didn't consider an asshole.

But third, you didn't answer the question!

Are you and FL a bit of your 'brothers keepers'? yes? no?

If you say that the future is fixed and you know the future does that relieve you of your responsibility towards your true nature?

Is not the very act of shining bright and true, with who you are, allowing yourself to interact with the world and for the world to kick you in the teeth, isn't that one of the very highest ideals?

It's the only actual path to growth you know.. unless you eat your own dogfood, all the platonic musings in the world,
all the techniques, all the abandonment of your ego into the superego is just a form of masturbation.

The very ACT of defying the fixed future is what hones us to be our very best!

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I am sure you understand I am not here to answer any questions, other than those arising from a normal conversation in a normal forum between educated persons. Questions on issues under discussion are welcome. Personal questions are not. I'm not the focus of anything, or anyone. I'm just a participant in a forum.

I came to clarify the OP misunderstandings on FL, and to educately warn some users of this forum that personal attacks won't be tolerated. That's all. I have no problems interacting with people on this and that issue, if I feel fancy.

I prefer to answer to this question of yours:

If you say that the future is fixed and you know the future does that relieve you of your responsibility towards your true nature?

If the future is fixed, obviously no one is to be held responsible for her actions, and free will gets diluted like sugar in water. However, the question is not whether the future is fixed or not. The question is whether one knows the future is or not fixed. Not knowing that the future is fixed is what makes you responsible of your actions and the consequences of those actions.

This is a beautiful example of how ignorance on some issues is beneficial. And this is the only reason why there is an uncertainty principle that rules you all. You shouldn't know everything, unless you wish to lose your free will.

a reply to: Direne

These sorts of questions have been asked and answered for thousands of years, and are about as normal as you can get.

They are also exceedingly simple and require no fancy ontology, epistemology or soteriology.

But as you wish.

I admit that for some time, I was fascinated by your mind, and so I wished to converse.

The interplay was fascinating.

It's no longer fascinating.

It looks like it will be fascinating at a future time however, so I'll speak to you then.

Thank you

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

My pleasure, Kev. I'm sure you will find fascinating minds out there, and I hope you find interesting people satisfying your needs. Really.

a reply to: Direne

...
This is a beautiful example of how ignorance on some issues is beneficial. And this is the only reason why there is an uncertainty principle that rules you all. You shouldn't know everything, unless you wish to lose your free will.

Hi, hope you don't mind I dare to question if you understand "the timeline is fixed, and fully deterministic" & the uncertainty principle & free will
So yeah I'm the one who insisted on definitions, remember? Hi...

Anyhoo just because I want to understand and be sure we're talking about the same thing, I'll do the definitions thing again and then I'd have a question, is that okay?

Uncertainty principle: one can know either the velocity or the location of a particle, never both.
That's not because the math fails, or people are too dumb, or the equipment not sophisticated enough, that's part of the nature of the particle.
Because the particle is a field, unless interaction forces it to "collapse", decoherence happens.

Free will: the act of making a decision, after the initial reflex, with some reflection I decide what action my reaction will be

Now isn't it entirely possible that "the timeline is fixed, and fully deterministic" is also an interpretation that is only true, because after the fact it is the only thing that was possible, but before it's very much like the uncertainty principle
and all the still pending actions and decisions decide where the probability wave will actually land?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for determinism, but in a sense of that only the "decision points" or bottlenecks are indeed set and the scope, or the "colour" it will take is very much depending on free will.

a reply to: Peeple

Hi Peeple.

I agree with your definitions, but need t make a slight minor correction Heisenberg's uncertainty principle does not refer to the velocity of a particle but to its momentum. Thus, it is stated as follows:

The more precisely you know the position of a particle, the less precisely you can simultaneously know the momentum of that same particle.

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle refers only to quantum particles, thus it has no impact on macrosystems like, say, humans, or galaxies. The issue of whether the worldlines describe deterministic or non-deterministic events belongs to Relativity Theory. However, there are theories about the particle of time, the chronon, to which the Heisenberg's principle automatically applies.

Yours is an interesting and long question. I will focus on the part concerning "the timeline is fixed, and fully deterministic".

See, your timeline can be fully deterministic, yet your free will is not totally affected. Deterministic means that the final result of your actions is known beforehand, but you are free to do whatever you wish in between the beginning and the end of your timeline. This would match your definition of "decision points or bottlenecks that are indeed set". In this case, we have set two decision points: your birth, and your death. In between you can marry, not marry, be a trapecist, an engineer, a homeless, a housewife, the happy mother of three kids, or a stripper in Las Vegas. Whatever your own decisions lead you to.

A fully deterministic timeline would be that in which each and every decision you take is already known, and you have no freedom to choose this or that option. In a fully deterministic world your life would be scripted beforehand, and you are reduced to what we call a "designoid", a being which is simply acting as prescribed. Certainly, this would be a simulated world in which you are just a conscious agent playing the role the simulator assigned to you.

On the contrary, a fully non-deterministic world would be that in which no events are known beforehand, though there are rules about the possible interactions between agents and their outcome. This would be a world similar to the one you currently experience where you freely take decisions, though obviously you cannot contravene a small set of rules (you cannot go through walls, you cannot have a glass filled with water once it has fallen to the ground and broken into pices, and so on).

Now we introduce a new possibility. Let's assume you can travel in time, futurewards, and pastwards. How would that change your worldline? What about free will in such a world?

If you think for a while, you will convince yourself travelling back or forward in time does not change much the situation. Your time travelling decisions might also be scripted and, therefore, fully deterministic. You have no way to know if your going to your past to correct some decisions you took is not set beforehand, and you have no possible way to know whether going to the future to get a knowledge about the outcome of your decisions in the present (so as to take an informed decision taking advantage of that knowledge) is also set beforehand by the simulator. Obviously, you have the choice to not travel, though this also implies it might very well be the case you have been programmed to not travel.

Back to quantum mechanics we have the so-called entanglement, by virtue of which particles (but not you, a galaxy, or your cat) can become "entangled," meaning that their states are directly related to the state of another object somewhere else.

Though this seems to amaze people, I will tell you there is something that would be really wondrous and remarkable: the possibility that two particles occupy the same space at the same time. This, and only this, is absolutely banned and forbidden. The simulated does not care if you wish to replicate yourself in two places at the same time; it does not care if there are multiple universes, thousand Peeples, and it even does allow for two or more Peeples to meet. It even allows you to travel back to your past and meet little Peeple, or have a beer with old Peeple. All of it is allowed. But there are two rules:

1) never ever can any given Peeple ocuppy exactly the same position that is already occupy by another Peeple (that is, you can entangle photons, but you cannot have two photons located at the same time at the same point in space)

2) time travelers (be them particles or humans) are memoryless systems: you can travel back in time, or travel to the future, but you are not allowed to remember anything of your past (if in the future), nor of your future (if in the past)

Rule number 2) is a consequence of rule number 1) above.

Therefore, yes Peeple, the world can be fully deterministic, scripted, engineered, but as long as you ignore it free will is not compromised.

(a different question is who the simulator is, or why the world was designed like that, or whether there are ways to escape the simulation).

I made my best to answer your question.

a reply to: Direne

But I would add to "never ever can any given Peeple ocuppy exactly the same position that is already occupied by another Peeple" of the same type. Because if we're talking in terms of a simulation, we can certainly allow for example a "holographic" Peeple that could overlapp, no?

Personally I have a really hard time imagining what the point of a fully deterministic universe without free wil would be. It would be a terrible waste of energy and effort, and absolutely redundant.
I mean if you know beforehand everything and how it plays out, the only thing I can imagine you could gain from it, is you make a "movie" for a third party?
And doesn't that fly in the face of Occam, given the magnitude of "the production"?
And if you invest that much time and energy wouldn't it be smarter to let the audience live it?
Because the intention kind of has to be to teach/learn something, so you need to be the one who makes the choices, but in your view you can't, so
it seems to me, you've deprived your theory/ your self of the only thing that can "give meaning" => learning