The Language of Vampyr

a reply to: Jonjonj

thought this kind of goes with what you were saying

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check out this chart and then watch it die off coincides with the post on ats, interesting watching rise and fall of information and how it is followed and then forgotten

Hence the name? I will check that out. Thank you.
a reply to: Brotherman

When one uses the way back machine link the consistency, apart from the interest from ATS also seems quite remarkable.

All of the above is the result of a thorough study of the specific post discussed and it's bibliography as well as a lot of time scrutinizing the FL archives and associated googling of other attendant bibliographies.

A lot of time? See, that was my problem. I'll be honest, I haven't spent very much time looking over FL's site at all, I limited my exposure for all kinds of reasons, not the least of which has been that I'm just not that interested. Not being flip, just saying that FL is hardly on my mapboard of all this stuff. This thread has been far more important.

So when you zapped me there, you really got me. As a word guy, you can only imagine how crazy embarrassed I get if I mess up on a word thing.

What I am saying is that I parsed out those FL posts that Taj shared against their sources in, like, 15 minutes, so when you pulled me up short on the 'inciting terminology' I pointed out I figured, hey “Speed Kills”, my time had come.

Well, I'm here to tell you, lostgirl, A year later and I've finally been to the mountain; I've gone and looked the site over, despite my better judgment, and I don't know what will come of that, but at least I will have peace of mind because...

Do you really think that this group... is now tailoring their posts specifically to retain our interest?

How do you not? That's a joke question you asked there, right. The best that can be said as a compromise is that they learned from ATS that there is money in “conspiracy related websites”, and I cannot be convinced they are interested in that kind of revenue; I'll get to that later.

One thing I am not going to do is link to their site, but all anyone has to do is go to the defense and cassini diskus tabs and watch the posts develop chronologically for themselves. It's very obvious; again: I would like to address this in another post.

Okay, let's take a close look at the quotes that Taj posted along with their sources in more detail.

Real Version by Lester R. Brown:

In the new energy economy, our cities will be unlike any we have known during our lifetime. The air will be clean and the streets will be quiet, with only the scarcely audible hum of electric motors. Air pollution alerts will be a thing of the past as coal-fired power plants are dismantled and recycled and as gasoline- and-diesel-burning engines largely disappear.

Chapter 5. Stabilizing Climate: Shifting to Renewable Energy: The World Energy Economy of 2020

FL Version:

In the new energy economy, our cities will be unlike any we have known during our lifetime. The air will be clean and the streets will be quiet, with only the scarcely audible hum of electric motors. Air pollution alerts will be a thing of the past as coal-fired power plants are dismantled and recycled and as gasoline- and-diesel-burning engines largely disappear. Of course, those cities will be populated by non-humans.

How is that not clear? Here's the other one...

Real version by Lester R. Brown:

But the challenges we face are changing, and so must the response. The traditional approach to protecting biological diversity by building a fence around an area and calling it a park or nature preserve is no longer sufficient. If we cannot also stabilize population and climate, there is not an ecosystem on earth that we can save, no matter how high the fence.

World on the Edge: How to Prevent Environmental and Economic Collapse

FL Version

The traditional approach to protecting biological diversity by building a fence around an area and calling it a park or nature preserve is no longer sufficient. If we cannot also stabilize population and climate, there is not an ecosystem on earth that we can save, no matter how high the fence. If we don't disrupt Sol-3 right now, they will be infecting nearby planets soon. Thus, it is key for our success to implement the TopSoil program as soon as possible.

The only place that the added language (“If we don't disrupt Sol-3 right now, they will be infecting nearby planets soon. Thus, it is key for our success to implement the TopSoil program as soon as possible.”) can be found is on the FL website.

And regarding the bibliography with "only" FL references - the particular post under discussion is one of only 4 - 5 such cases out of at least 40 others (in the "alarming ideas" category)...

All the others include many references (ten or more in some cases) from a wide range of reputable scientists (some on staff at places like UC Berkley, MIT, Oxford, etc.) who've been published in name scientific journals, written books, and contributed to cutting edge technological discoveries...

The link that you provided with the citations goes to a page not related to the above posted mash-ups, which were originally provided by Taj on P. 99. The citations attached to paper that is in question, go to FL documents which when clicked on and those citations have been searched nowhere seem to cite the actual author of most of their blurbs, Lester R. Brown. Plagiarism?

I for one have never been impressed by the “wall of noise” citations on the “papers” that FL provides for public consumption (ATS consumption). Why would you not bother to search for the source material? It seems to me that you didn't “scrutinize” hard enough,

They are doing exactly what I am suggesting that they are doing, lostgirl. One does not “accidentally” add sentences to other people's text. This is not a “formatting problem”, this is FL screwing with you and anyone else that encounters the stuff.

So to sum up: Yes, I do think that FL is being silly when they post that type of garbage. Also, yes, I think that they have one fan: This tiny group at ATS; this thread is more “famous” (or infamous) on the web than the website that it is based on. Finally, no, you are wrong, those are bad citations that lead to worse citations and no sign of the original author, Lester R. Brown.

BRB

a reply to: Brotherman

Hey Brotherman.

Thanks for finding and posting that link to the graph.

That means that no one needs to go to FL to see how the dates correlate.

"Not enough search volume to show results."
-Google

Useful Graph

originally posted by: Bybyots
The link that you provided with the citations goes to a page not related to the above posted mash-ups, which were originally provided by Taj on P. 99. The citations attached to paper that is in question, go to FL documents which when clicked on and those citations have been searched nowhere seem to cite the actual author of most of their blurbs, Lester R. Brown. Plagiarism?

I for one have never been impressed by the “wall of noise” citations on the “papers” that FL provides for public consumption (ATS consumption). Why would you not bother to search for the source material? It seems to me that you didn't “scrutinize” hard enough,

I never disputed your point about that one particular FL document which, I agree, was exactly as you outlined - a 'mash-up' of seemingly "plagiarized" quotes and a bibliography which cited only other FL documents...that is specifically why I provided a link to a different FL document - to provide evidence for my claim...

What I pointed out, after plenty of "hard" scrutinizing, which included follow-up directly to bibliographical citation sources (scientists, staff on many varied Universities, etc.) from a large sample of documents 'not' cited with merely other FL docs, was that at least 90% of their documents are supported by legitimate citations from 'other' than FL sources..

The "Defense" posts over there are not all written by the same people, perhaps there is one (or more) who don't bother to back up their work with 'real' citations and who do deal in 'sensationalized' plagiarism...

Frankly, at this point, I don't care what they're purpose is - I've had an interesting time speculating, researching, and discussing the site anyway...

a reply to: lostgirl

I don't care what they're purpose is - I've had an interesting time speculating, researching, and discussing the site anyway...

We totally have that in common; me too.

Hey listen Thread,

I wanted to throw this out there, but I don't really have all the chops a guy would need to articulate what I'm trying to say, so don't be holdin' my toes to the fire too quickly ...

I was thinking about some of what Taj posted, and I was thinking about strange attractors and the FL website and the the text that makes it all up.

Could it be possible that these texts we are finding posted at FL are self generating?

They could do that with their software you know? All it would take is a lite edit and some graphics and it would be ready to serve up.

Maybe these posts ('papers') at FL look the way they do because they are supposed to because they are based on models that have been generated based on interactions between FL and ATS.

Again, I don't have all the tools to fully articulate that one; that's why this takes multidisciplinary groups of researchers. No one has all the tools.

Anyhow, that's the best I can do when it comes to giving "the benefit of the doubt" to FL.



P.S. What I'm really trying to do here is I'm trying to make sense of the insane citations. A person would never create citations like that, where they are layered so thick that you can't get to the bottom of them; but a computer would.

Okay! Crazy Idea 392!

What if each of those "members" that we see listed on the FL site are each responsible for a node, or even better a node farm and it's product; and then those are the nodes on the distributed semantic network.

I'm totally going off the cuff here, but in my immediate fantasy concerning how that might work, that would be one hell of a way to do art.

# dance let's art!

And now I gotta go do geometry.

yick

originally posted by: Bybyots
Hey listen Thread,

I wanted to throw this out there, but I don't really have all the chops a guy would need to articulate what I'm trying to say, so don't be holdin' my toes to the fire too quickly ...

I was thinking about some of what Taj posted, and I was thinking about strange attractors and the FL website and the the text that makes it all up.

Could it be possible that these texts we are finding posted at FL are self generating?

They could do that with their software you know? All it would take is a lite edit and some graphics and it would be ready to serve up.

Maybe these posts ('papers') at FL look the way they do because they are supposed to because they are based on models that have been generated based on interactions between FL and ATS.

Again, I don't have all the tools to fully articulate that one; that's why this takes multidisciplinary groups of researchers. No one has all the tools.

Anyhow, that's the best I can do when it comes to giving "the benefit of the doubt" to FL.

P.S. What I'm really trying to do here is I'm trying to make sense of the insane citations. A person would never create citations like that, where they are layered so thick that you can't get to the bottom of them; but a computer would.

I wonder what would happen if you simply took translating logic from say 3 or 4 different but similar language translation progras and then blended them together assigning rules to the spoken word parts (as if reading outloud), the phonemes, and you base these rules on a cultural basis (to each respective aspect of the fracturing of the languages) and then started running tests with them to see how you can make them work together, it would be almost undecodable to anyone without this set of rules and without knowledge of how you blended them.

Of course that is a "linear" thought and basically explained, I have other thoughts and ideas that involve a more 3d approach not so linear as well involving words, sounds, letters, images as well.

"There are cognitive tests that consistently prove a speaker of a certain language perceives reality in a different way than a speaker of another language. I know this sounds somehow shocking, but it is that way."

"You state that you you don't believe that feelings and words are directly related. Margaret Magnus, and the school of phonosemantics -aka sound symbolism-, has made interesting experiments with students to which she presents images of objects and ask them to label them with words."

"Some of them are impossible objects, or even non-existent, and the students are required to invent words for those objects. Surprisingly, there is a preference for using words with specific phonemes for certain objects."

-Andryl

lingvoforum.net...

If the feeling of belongingness can be associated to tonal phonemes, then what happens when language and tonality no longer provide sufficient variety for a group to set themselves apart from the rest of society?

Maybeeee...

Vocal Fry?

a reply to: Bybyots

I have linked Magnus in this thread quite a few times, I read her dissertation a few times, the ideas and experiments presented there are very interesting if you have not checked them out yet for yourself. Your language isn't always your tone either, its how you associate the words you use with how you feel about what you are saying, Im not the dude to get real in depth with what I am saying here but what Ayndryl said, I dig it.

a reply to: Brotherman
This in the last page, with Bybyots and Brotherman's respective additions, IMHO, has gotten totally fascinating.

My question would be further: we've discussed the impact on the brain, the making and using the human brain as an antennae then emitting, so then, I wanna know what everyone thinks about what the two of you have written here, combined with that?

Point being, obviously, there are emotional, experiential states we experience without the ability to represent linguistically. It just is.There may not be any word or language to describe or depict it. What I think we are getting at, hereabouts, perhaps, is the goal of FL, perhaps, in part: to represent brain states of consciousness that currently have no language, and give them such. But this is a two way road, for we're living in times where our "brain-states" can be infiltrated and induced, replicated and manipulated…..

And, having said that, what does this do, then, to both the seeking to find a language to represent what can't be, and introduce what, perhaps, shouldn't, but is…..

Fascinating stuff. Potentially soul-killing, culling and otherwise.
Regards,
Tetra50

a reply to: tetra50

The Bantu and Tantu tribes of Africa used to believe that the soul was carried in spoken word this is also why they did not have a written language and pretty much why they were able to be conquered by Arab traders into invaders. There is substance to the notion that there is something that in the sound of a word that by nature makes people feel one way or the other without the idea of context or tone to dissuade these experiments are in Magnus's research and if not mistaken peer reviewed and not refuted. Our brains are not like an antenna at all, it is more like a storage/ supply depot, in the regard that it supplies all the chemicals the body needs to interpret INDIVIDUALLY reality and also records/ stores the unabashed results. It is the morality that files the information into boxes other then that how it works and why is a mystery. The language however is a joining process to understanding the world and ideas around an individual with others. The language is limiting it has boundaries and they are firm boundaries, language cannot describe your feeling of love, it can only generalize love and other people will say oh love I know what that is and then reflect back to their idea of love, sometimes their idea of love is not what you described!

a reply to: Brotherman
Just an aside,before I continue with my conjecture, and I was going to stop writing on this site tonight, once again….but for you , and one other….

Our brains are not like an antenna at all, it is more like a storage/ supply depot, in the regard that it supplies all the chemicals the body needs to interpret INDIVIDUALLY reality and also records/ stores the unabashed results. It is the morality that files the information into boxes other then that how it works and why is a mystery.

I don't mean to suggest, Brotherman, that our brains are at all, that. But, that they can be turned into that, within current and past technologies, which may have gotten us to this point. I would go dig for quoted info, but as to that, there has been plenty of it here, already. I think you know what I mean. The brain, itself, may not be the antennae, but there are plenty of , shall we say, additive electronic and technologic things to our bodies, which may enable making us antennae, and with this I am partly harkening back to some things Taj Mikel has written. And I'm not going to go looking for it right now, but there is a painting with God, and Jesus, the holy dove between them, with the globe depicted with antennae,on each side of it, between them and their hands….

If you research computer integrated chips, first developed in 1952…(I'll provide some links) you'll find a discussion of "dopants"….chemicals used to perhaps, create and offset different reactions within those chips….

what's instructive, here, I think, is what you've already said: It isn't within the human, biological body….but what I'm intending to show, the offset of the technology, that makes it so or not.
Regards,
Tetra
chips

dopant, any impurity deliberately added to a semiconductor for the purpose of modifying its electrical conductivity. The most commonly used elemental semiconductors are silicon and germanium, which form crystalline lattices in which each atom shares one electron with each of its four nearest neighbours. If a small proportion of the atoms in such a lattice is replaced by atoms such as phosphorus or arsenic, which have five electrons available for bond formation, the extra electron of each such dopant atom becomes available for electrical conduction. The semiconductor is then said to be doped with phosphorus or arsenic, which are called donor atoms, and the semiconductor is classed as n-type (n for negative, because the charge carriers are electrons, which are negatively charged particles). Doping with atoms such as boron or indium, which have only three electrons available, creates a positively charged site, or “hole,” in the bonding arrangement. Conduction can occur by migration of the positively charged site through the crystal lattice, and a semiconductor doped with an atom of this type, an acceptor atom, is called p-type.

Dopant meaning/ Brittanica

What I'm adding here, Brotherman, to your suppositions, is the idea that technology has just as much to do with what you suggest as biology, of our bodies….
Regards to you.
Tetra50

a reply to: tetra50

And I do not disagree, the technological augmentation of people is already underway right here now from before even from radios to tv to both and then internet and then all three and then beyond with the cell phone and next the google glass, oculos rift and then the next step.technologically induced telepathy is actually the goal, what it is used for I cannot say because I am not privvy to that info but it is certainly the goal. It is a perfect language because it is an anti language communication of pure thought, emotion, and creativity instantly communicated. with telepathy language need not exist immediate consequence we lose our historic culture, immediate benefit, we build a new one.

a reply to: Brotherman

Ah, now we are getting to it, I think, with what you write here:

It is a perfect language because it is an anti language communication of pure thought, emotion, and creativity instantly communicated. with telepathy language need not exist immediate consequence we lose our historic culture, immediate benefit, we build a new one.

"We build a new one."

Who? For FL and the quote Bybyots and Lostgirl have been about are saying, considering they've been added to Lester Brown's writings, that "no human's will exist or live there."

Consider that, if you will. For I see it as part and parcel of using "us" ( and I mean humans, here, for I think I'm still one, but don't know for sure just as I don't know if I'm communicating with one, LOL) and our augmentation and the extrapolations of that augmentation to justify and cull our energy for such as you've described.

I have no problem, whatsoever, with building a new anything….. But how the old is destroyed, how the new is justified, and WHAT the NEW really is…well, that's a whole different matter.

What you describe, as well, in the first I've quoted, instantly communicated, can be either, A: quite beautiful and wholly life significant, or B: wholly evil, horrifying and soul killing. That's the whole point, here, in my estimation.
Thanks, brotherman.
Tetra

a reply to: Brotherman
Also, I think this, well worth thinking of:

The Bantu and Tantu tribes of Africa used to believe that the soul was carried in spoken word this is also why they did not have a written language and pretty much why they were able to be conquered by Arab traders into invaders

And the Hutus and Tutus thought of one of the other: cockroaches of life existence.

Not that this applies to what you've written, for it doesn't really. It's just another example of how we can be manipulated to "see" one another, create the chasm, and pretend, then, to "fix" the fissure of horrendic violence which was first manipulated, in order to justify "fixing" it…..

As to what you've directly said about the Bantu and Tantu, perhaps they arrived at this belief having already lived and viewed a history in which "language" and all that is associated with it paradigmatically, destroyed life…..and so their reaction was to disregard and disassociate, hoping to save life, loyalty and nature, not only with but without mankind….for there is much beauty there, I think, despite, what the suggested history, well…suggests….
Tetra

a reply to: tetra50

In order for it to work everyone has to be connected by choice, choice is not defined by language it is an individual experience. It could be good or evil it can be good and evil, guess its how the individual feels about it but make no bones about it everyone could instantly know you do not like it but if everyone feels the weight of an individual multiplied by everyone in the whole connected system I can easily forsee world change for the better, I can easily see the actual tech being manipulated to just hook people up like on drugs, makes me think of FB and political porn to be honest. Did you ever look into that software I described to you in U2U?

a reply to: Brotherman
No but I will, I promise, before we speak next. And appreciate your comments, herein.

but as to choice, though this has been alluded to in the thread, already, with your comments I think it well worth repeating, as to choice:

Navy Captain Dr. Paul E. Taylor read a paper at the Air University Center for Aerospace Doctrine, Research and Education, at Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama. Dr. Taylor was responsible for the Navy's Radiation Laboratory and had been studying radiation effects on humans. In his paper, Dr. Taylor stated, "The ability of individuals to function (as soldiers) could be degraded to such a point that would be combat ineffective." The system was so sophisticated that it employed microwaves and millimeter waves and was transportable by a large truck.

Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in the South Bay, are working on the development of a "brain bomb". A bomb could be dropped in the middle of a battlefield which would produce microwaves, incapacitating the minds of soldiers within a circumscribed area.

Applications of microwave technology in espionage were available for over 25 years. In a meeting in Berkeley of the American Association for the Advancement of Science as early as 1965, Professor J. Anthony Deutsch of New York University, provided an important segment of research in the field of memory control. In layman terms, Professor Deutsch indicated that the mind is a transmitter and if too much information is received, like too many vehicles on a crowded freeway, the brain ceases to transmit. The Professor indicated that an excess of acetyl choline in the brain can interfere with the memory process and control. He indicated excess amounts of acetyl choline can be artificially produced, through both the administration of drugs or through the use of radio waves. The process is called Electronic Dissolution of Memory (EDOM). The memory transmission can be stopped for as long as the radio signal continues.

As a result, the awareness of the person skips over those minutes during which he is subjected to the radio signal. Memory is distorted, and time-orientation is destroyed.

According to Lincoln Lawrence, author of Were We Controlled, EDOM is now operational. "There is already in use a small EDOM generator/transmitter which can be concealed on the body of the person. Contact with this person, a casual handshake or even just a touch, transmits a tiny electronic charge plus an ultra-sonic signal tone which for a short period will disturb the time-orientation of the person affected....it can be a potent weapon for hopelessly confusing evidence in the investigation of a crime."

I posted this on another thread tonight, about all of us NOT being connected….

I think it's worth of reposting here, as it alludes to "choice" in a significant way, already discussed, I think, but worth revisiting, in the value of "choice."

For if you're memories are altered or removed, if you do not know the environment, situation in which you are existing, if you do not know the facts surrounding such "choice," in short, it is then, NOT A CHOICE, at all, but becomes a manipulated configuration, designed to reach a goal….

In the simplest of terms, if I am raped, and my memory of that removed, then my rapist could then show up later in my life and become my lover…..thereby appearing to be no rapist….
Regards,
Tetra

a reply to: tetra50

You are pretty rad, let me know when you look into that more!!!