What if Jesus is the DECEPTION?

reply to post by infolurker


Your first verse wasn't said by Jesus, but a man who persecuted Jesus' followers before "converting" and promoting his own message separate from Jesus'.

Did you know that out of all the 13 epistles that Paul wrote, he only quoted Jesus ONE time?! Talk about changing someone's message! Paul didn't have Jesus' message in mind, only his own.

Where does Jesus call us to worship Him,. or even pray to Him?

Other issues I will question after an answer to this

reply to post by technomage1


This speaks to me...... as I have researched and to some end, followed many different teachings, and they are all essentially the same...... yet the bible, or the teachings of Jesus would like to make you believe that his were the one and only true teachings and lessons, and all others are wrong. I struggle with the concept of "burning in hell for all of eternity" because all other teachings are wrong and only Jesus can bring you to a closer relationship with God.... I mean, I appreciate the ideas, but why do I need a "middle man"?

Originally posted by wildapache
reply to post by JeffersonAirplane

 

Point out the parts that are far fetched and ill try to explain myself.......

Dude there is quite a lot of far-fetched stuff in there.

Jesus being the false prophet.
Marduk being Lucifer.
Enki being Satan.

Like I have already made clear several times I'm not treading on anyones beliefs, I just have never seen any physical evidence that any of these characters, and some more that you mentioned, have ever existed.

Making claims at this length, about beings that have never been proved to be here, is pretty far-fetched would you not agree?

reply to post by cass1dy09


Well i guess the problem is when that ground work on Creation has been taking from the glyphs of Sumeria....
I'm almost 100% sure that during his 40days in the desert(which one was it again?) Jesus have had access to old texts/records and most of the stories he used as a front to teach the people come from those texts.But thats just me and my opinion.

reply to post by infolurker


The thing is SATAN just mean adversary,not the horned and tailed demon with a trident.....

Originally posted by Jusvistn
reply to post by technomage1

 

This speaks to me...... as I have researched and to some end, followed many different teachings, and they are all essentially the same...... yet the bible, or the teachings of Jesus would like to make you believe that his were the one and only true teachings and lessons, and all others are wrong. I struggle with the concept of "burning in hell for all of eternity" because all other teachings are wrong and only Jesus can bring you to a closer relationship with God.... I mean, I appreciate the ideas, but why do I need a "middle man"?

Jesus had to prove if you will that the divine and sinless could relate to man, become one of him, die like one and as one and for all and save mans ass by so doing. There is more to the story even but just know you couldn't have proved it.

reply to post by borntowatch


I think what I mean is that it is more in the way that his messages and teachings are being interpreted. You have to admit that in the grand scheme of the church, Jesus is always front and center and God is always taking the back seat....

Like I said, I'm not trying to start a holy war, I'm trying to get my head wrapped around all of this. I believe in GOD, I DO NOT believe in religion. I have several who tell me I need to go to church and take my kids to church each Sunday, and I find that very difficult, because at church, I do not feel that I am closer to God, but I do feel like I am having Jesus rammed down my throat.

For me, Faith is not something that I should parade around on Sunday's and push onto others, but it is a way of life in everything I do, and see and experience.

I am sorry if I have offended you, it is not my intention to do so. I am interested in what you would like to share.

Originally posted by wildapache
reply to post by cass1dy09

 

Well i guess the problem is when that ground work on Creation has been taking from the glyphs of Sumeria....
I'm almost 100% sure that during his 40days in the desert(which one was it again?) Jesus have had access to old texts/records and most of the stories he used as a front to teach the people come from those texts.But thats just me and my opinion.

Well then we should be able to cross reference His teachings with those good old texts of Sumeria......if there was any cross reference to be had but there's not. I mean really find any of His parables and the sermon on the mt in those texts and Ill buy you dinner.

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Jusvistn
reply to post by technomage1

 

This speaks to me...... as I have researched and to some end, followed many different teachings, and they are all essentially the same...... yet the bible, or the teachings of Jesus would like to make you believe that his were the one and only true teachings and lessons, and all others are wrong. I struggle with the concept of "burning in hell for all of eternity" because all other teachings are wrong and only Jesus can bring you to a closer relationship with God.... I mean, I appreciate the ideas, but why do I need a "middle man"?

Jesus had to prove if you will that the divine and sinless could relate to man, become one of him, die like one and as one and for all and save mans ass by so doing. There is more to the story even but just know you couldn't have proved it.

ok here is where I have a problem. If jesus was as sinless and divine as "YOU" say, he could never be one of us he would be separate and different. kind of like a jew and a gentile he could not be like us unless he did actually sin (Mary Magdalen comes to mind) so I disagree with that point. I do agree with you that there is more to the story that is not told........

reply to post by JeffersonAirplane


Well take it from the point of view of Yahweh.Here comes one guy who is teaching people the complete opposite of what i order(from an eye for an eye to give the other cheek...),how would you called this guy?
If you have a background in ancient civilizations you will see that the last 2 arent as far fetched as you may think.Marduk as next in kin for the lordship over earth during the TIME OF THE BULL,and his persistant claim that the TIME OF THE BULL was over and the TIME OF THE RAM has arrived,and getting his ass whooped by Ninurta(Michael the archangel) qualifies as Lucifer...And Enki is exactly what he is called,Satan,as in adversary of Enlil(and guess what his symbol is the entwined Serpent.


Now as to whether they have existed or not,you have to put ask yourself:What makes history,history?I mean they(as in the sumerian) were evolved enough to be the first civilization with written records(about places,kings,events....all those verifiable),then what makes mythology,mythology?

Originally posted by technomage1

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by Jusvistn
reply to post by technomage1

 

This speaks to me...... as I have researched and to some end, followed many different teachings, and they are all essentially the same...... yet the bible, or the teachings of Jesus would like to make you believe that his were the one and only true teachings and lessons, and all others are wrong. I struggle with the concept of "burning in hell for all of eternity" because all other teachings are wrong and only Jesus can bring you to a closer relationship with God.... I mean, I appreciate the ideas, but why do I need a "middle man"?

Jesus had to prove if you will that the divine and sinless could relate to man, become one of him, die like one and as one and for all and save mans ass by so doing. There is more to the story even but just know you couldn't have proved it.

ok here is where I have a problem. If jesus was as sinless and divine as "YOU" say, he could never be one of us he would be separate and different. kind of like a jew and a gentile he could not be like us unless he did actually sin (Mary Magdalen comes to mind) so I disagree with that point. I do agree with you that there is more to the story that is not told........

More precisely He had to show that the divine and sinless could live in human flesh. And by divine I don't mean to suggest that He was a candy ass or anything like that. he could be pretty ruff on some folks and said what He wanted to say with out fear. He didn't need to impress me by sinning.....you know trying to relate and what not. Just by putting on human flesh considering who He was is enough by me.

According to many street preachers it shouldn't matter if Jesus is a possible deception.

What should matter is if Jesus is the real deal.

Pretty much only Jesus will send the unbeliever to hell for all eternity.
Other faiths have a little bit of hell, but arguably people are let out eventually, or they are given another chance through reincarnation.

But Jesus won't allow such humane shenanigans.

At the time of death you either think He's real (and be saved), or you're going to burn for all eternity, which is a very long time indeed.

If He wasn't real (just in case) you can still recant after some purgatory or many different life times and find the "real" deity.

Thus, I guess logically, the safest thing to do is to believe He's real and not a deception.

reply to post by Logarock


I think you got me wrong,I am not trying to convince anybody of what i wrote.Its MY opinion but thats all it is,MINE.now as for cross-referencing i've been working on it,believe it or not,and when the work is complete i'll share it with you,no problem.

Oh and if you think im dissing Big J,you got it all wrong,I may not think he is THE CREATOR OF ALL,but i live by the man's teaching simply because he was/is a charismatic man with a lot of love and compassion in his heart and i do think he was raised from the dead(as part of the whole COUP thing,but raised none the less).

On a side note,the one i truly feel sorry for is JUDAS.He got played big times.....

reply to post by wildapache


Ok its just that I have read some of the old texts and they are not about anything He talked about. Most of what He said that was recorded comes form the older prophets and not in a way that he was trying to superimpose himself on those writings as some have proposed.

reply to post by Jusvistn


Following is a list of resources [color=6699FF]for those WHO GENUINELY AND FAIR-MINDEDLY ARE SERIOUSLY INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH

Those who simply want to find windmills to joust with can always find plenty of windmills elsewhere.

I'm 98% through Lee Strobel's book first mentioned. It's an excellent work with many interviews with top flight scholars related to the topic of this thread. Given the nature of the topic, short excerpts are hard to find that really carry the ball very far down the court. imho, one really needs to examine the evidence in more substantive chunks than short excerpts.

The great sources below are excellent for doing that.


As former atheist (IIRC) investigative journalist

Lee Strobel documents extensively in

[color=6699FF]THE CASE FOR THE REAL JESUS: A Journalist Investigates Current ATtacks on the Identity of Christ

Your question is simply wholesale out of congruence with the historical record and tons of the best scholarship.

HIs website:

www.leestrobel.com...

A place to learn and dialogue about what Jesus said:

www.jesuscentral.com...

A FEISTY SITE that answers critics of historic Christianity:

www.TEKTONICS.ORG...

A vast resource of answers to current objections to Christianity:

www.CHRISTIAN-THINKTANK.COM...

Scholar William Lane Craig Defends Historic Christianity:

www.REASONABLEFAITH.ORG...

A wealth of material from Harvard-educated scholar:

www.MARKDROBERTS.COM...

OTHER RELATED SOURCES worth one's time:

NOTE: Dr Copan has such a wealth of material on the topic of this thread, I included a list of sources from him &/or that he contributed to.

DR PAUL COPAN:

www.paulcopan.com...

Dr Paul Copan: Good God in An Evil World youtube:

www.youtube.com...

his book:

TRUE FOR YOU BUT NOT FOR ME

www.goodstewardbooks.com...

Contributor to:

CAN ONLY ONE RELIGION BE TRUE:

www.goodstewardbooks.com...

BK:

HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT WRONG? Responding to Objections That Leave Christians Speechless

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373427880&sr=1-1&keywords=HOW+DO+YOU+KNOW+YOU%27RE+NOT+WR ONG+COPAN

"JESUS' FOLLOWERS FABRICATED THE STORIES AND SAYINGS OF JESUS"

free-online.org...

THE PRESUMPTUOUSNESS OF ATHEISM:

www.equip.org...

PAUL COPAN ON FACEBOOK:

www.facebook.com...

= = = =

James R Edwards: IS JESUS THE ONLY SAVIOR?

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373428373&sr=1-2&keywords=IS+JESUS+THE+ONLY+SAVIOR

= = = =

RELATIVISM: FEET FIRMLY PLANTED IN MID-AIR:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373428476&sr=1-1&keywords=relativism%3A+fee t+firmly+planted+in+mid-air

= = = =

TELLING THE TRUTH: The Gospel as Tragedy, Comedy, and Fairy Tale

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373428529&sr=1-1&keywords=TELLING+THE+TRUTH


= = = =

PAUL COPAN: THAT'S JUST YOUR INTERPRETATION:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373428673&sr=1-1&keywords=THAT%27S+JUST+ YOUR+INTERPRETATION

= = = =

Jesus knew this idea would be proposed that is why he told his followers when speaking of false prophets to judge a tree by its fruit. He is like a conspiracy theorist who says don't take my word for it look for yourself. The fruit of Christ has no blemish that I can see.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Hay well if you are all schooled up bring it to the table Ill be that Huckleberry. leave me speechless.lol

reply to post by wildapache


Not trying to get into an argument of bible authenticity as it's not the OP's question but Noah's great-grandfather Enoch who lived 3400BC was shown all the works of the world himself, no Sumerians needed. Link for their creation theory though?

reply to post by Logarock


Well i'm not one of those people who think he tried to superimpose himself on those writings....i think the texts he read definitely ain't available at your or my local bookstore or any for that matter.I think some of those texts dealt with the everyday life of the olden times,and yet some of those texts were powerful enough to turn a carpenter into a divine being in the eyes of the population....