The UFO Threat

Originally posted by vivid1975
reply to post by AllenBishop

 

The rabbit hole is so deep, it's hard to see the truth anymore.

And that, right there, is EXACTLY the essence of what this thread is about.

Originally posted by AllenBishop

Originally posted by vivid1975
reply to post by AllenBishop

 

The rabbit hole is so deep, it's hard to see the truth anymore.

And that, right there, is EXACTLY the essence of what this thread is about.

Just like all threads and forums. Well, that's a bit redundant.

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by AllenBishop

 

I can see why the Government would put them back , to propagate the ET story , we are becoming aware how the US Government have used peoples belief in Aliens for their own covert means over the years and I feel this may well be another example of that .
I would love to be proven wrong

edit on 10-7-2013 by gortex because: (no reason given)

Wow, that's a novel idea. Totally without merit but creative anyway.

No, this phenomenon is beyond human capabilities.
Exquisite precision, no blood - completed in a silent helicopter.
It just doesn't hold together.
I worked in a hospital and I can assure you there would be blood all over the place.

Why not just blame the cows themselves and get it over with?

edit on 11-7-2013 by UncleVinnys because: Incomplete

reply to post by UncleVinnys

Wow, that's a novel idea. Totally without merit but creative anyway.

Without merit you say ? , well lets see .
The idea has merit according to Gabe Valdez a former New Mexico state patrol officer who has been investigating Cattle Mutilations since the 70s .

Valdez also said that UFOs seen in the area were actually advanced military craft, some of which were involved with picking up these animals to conduct experiments on them and then returning them without being seen. He says the animals were returned mutilated in order to make locals believe it was done by extraterrestrials. As for the identity and motives of this secret military group, Valdez said those topics were too "sensitive" to discuss.

Valdez also said that UFOs seen in the area were actually advanced military craft, some of which were involved with picking up these animals to conduct experiments on them and then returning them without being seen. He says the animals were returned mutilated in order to make locals believe it was done by extraterrestrials.

And the the plot thickens with the mention a certain Richard Doty , a name I have become familiar with thanks to ATS member The GUT .

In a nutshell, Bennewitz owned a technology company outside the gates of Kirkland Air Force base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. In 1980 he reported to the USAF he was filming strange lights over the base and tuning in signals that he thought might be ET in nature. Instead of informing Bennewitz that he was observing secret military projects, Air Force Intelligence officer Richard Doty was allegedly assigned to encourage Bennewitz's ET beliefs and perpetuate them with fabricated evidence. Going so far as to convince Bennewits there was a secret ET and US military base under the Archuleta Mesa, which looms over the town of Dulce, New Mexico.

Valdez believes that Doty was under orders to lie to Bennewitz, in order to cover up the US military secrets he felt were too sensitive to speak of. Through all of this, Valdez remained friends with the two men, eventually helping Doty secure a job as a policeman in New Mexico.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Here it is from the man himself

Why not just blame the cows themselves and get it over with?

That would be silly , how could they hold a laser scalpel with hooves

I think there's certainly some nebulousness to the Mutilation Phenomenon. I will say this, I buy the covert testing idea, more than I do some of the other wild ones.

My problem with this theory, is that it would've been more efficient, had they just purchased the livestock for experiment. I know, beyond ANY doubt, the military, particularly, the US Army, is not beyond animal testing. Also, if you were going to harvest tissue samples, in the dead of night, by actually air-lifting the animal out...would it not be just as easy, or easier, to just bring it back to the lab?

The gas masks laying around? The spent glow-sticks on-site. The chaff at the scene? It doesn't make any sense. The chaff is the one that's really befuddling me, as I don't see any point to it. It's not as though the helicopter is going to "hide" in a cloud of chaff; the general location would still be known.

I guess the point I'm getting at, is, these individuals can subdue, exsanguinate, and excise, a cow, and not leave a single drop of blood, but can't muster the wherewithal to pick up their glow sticks and gas masks? Also, why in the hell are the perpetrators wearing gas masks? Perhaps they don't like the smell of methane?

To me, the entire event seems like a Mindchuff...

I doubt the mutilations are the work of cults, despite what a lot of people have to say on the subject. Predation is obviously out; it would take one hellaciously thirsty coyote to drink 13 gallons of blood in one sitting. Unless, of course, ACME is selling Blood-Sucker 9000™ units to coyotes still.

The problem with the military theory, is, to me, I see far more efficient ways of obtaining data, that don't involve fast-roping Air-Assault qualified surgeons into a field, to cut off cow nuts in the dead of night.

Regardless of HOW it was pulled off, the radiation monitoring is a valid argument as to WHY it's being done...

Biological effects of radiation are typically divided into two categories. The first category consists of exposure to high doses of radiation over short periods of time producing acute or short term effects. The second category represents exposure to low doses of radiation over an extended period of time producing chronic or long term effects.

High doses tend to kill cells, while low doses tend to damage or change them. High doses can kill so many cells that tissues and organs are damaged. This in turn may cause a rapid whole body response often called the Acute Radiation Syndrome (ARS). High dose effects are discussed on pages 6-12 to 6-16.

Low doses spread out over long periods of time don’t cause an immediate problem to any body organ. The effects of low doses of radiation occur at the level of the cell, and the results may not be observed for many years. (Emphasis mine)

www.nrc.gov...

There is also the issue, though not mentioned above, of transgenerational mutation.

Yuri E. Dubrova1,2, Mark Plumb3, Bruno Gutierrez1, Emma Boulton3 & Alec J. Jeffreys1

Parental exposure to ionizing radiation increases the frequency of germline mutations detectable in the next generation. Parental exposure can also increase the rate of mutation in somatic cells, and confer a predisposition to cancer, in offspring, suggesting that there could be an indirect effect of radiation on somatic genome stability that is transmissible through the germ line of the irradiated parents. We have found that this indirect effect extends to the germ line of unexposed first-generation offspring in mice, as revealed by an increased instability of repeat-DNA sequences in their descendants.

Department of Genetics, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, UK

www.nature.com...

Whereas, radiation monitoring could explain some of the mutes out west, what about the east coast?

Prion diseases or transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) are a family of rare progressive neurodegenerative disorders that affect both humans and animals. They are distinguished by long incubation periods, characteristic spongiform changes associated with neuronal loss, and a failure to induce inflammatory response.

The causative agents of TSEs are believed to be prions. The term "prions" refers to abnormal, pathogenic agents that are transmissible and are able to induce abnormal folding of specific normal cellular proteins called prion proteins that are found most abundantly in the brain. The functions of these normal prion proteins are still not completely understood. The abnormal folding of the prion proteins leads to brain damage and the characteristic signs and symptoms of the disease. Prion diseases are usually rapidly progressive and always fatal.

www.cdc.gov...

A solid document on the correlation between the mutes and TSE:

www.lostartsmedia.com...

reply to post by AllenBishop
Hmmm..you and gortex really got me thinking. The chaff brings something to mind. And I actually can think of a reason or two why calf-roping scientists from above might be useful in the radiation testing. gortex mentioned it above basically, but the chaff thing is what set me thinking about something I just saw in the last day or two. Great links, btw.

I'm almost hesitant to present it. Not because some traditionalists ain't gonna like it, but because it's gonna confuse the UFO issue a little more for me.

I'll try and get back in just a bit with more detail. Some good discussion here with some exceptional minds.

reply to post by AllenBishop

Um-Kay, here we go. AlienBishop did provide some good links as regards cattle testing in relation to radiation even unto the 2nd and 3rd generation. gortex provided some serious material regarding the conclusions of Gabe Valdez as far as cow mutilations and top-secret military craft go.

For those of you who have already done some deeper research, or those who've looked into the Bennewitz and Doty connection realize, it appears Bennewitz DID observe and film UAP that, given the details in Greg Bishop's Project Beta, and other sources, suggest Bennewitz might just have been filming advanced government craft.

In response to my question on the thread Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain! Alleged Super-Skeptic Tells All! I asked IsaacKoi if any confirmed pics from Bennewitz were publicly available. Isaac then posted a link that revealed the following pics:

Pretty cool and rather good pics of UAP phenomenon compared to the norm if'n you ask me. If we do have top-secret self-luminous craft flying out of the western bases, then it makes sense that AFOSI and crew would want to disguise that fact and kill two birds with one stone--as intel ops are rather famous for--and blend it with cattle/radiation studies under the ever-so-covenient and oft used excuse of UFOs. After all…that's Doty's specialty it appears.

Now for the "chaff" issue. If the above is true, then it follows that the gubmint wouldn't want clear radar signals. Not only that, but from the vid below, we can see that chaff dispersal--especially at night--could easily confuse the civilian population. Let's look at chaff:

Indications are the Redstone blob - the strange image that began cropping up on weather radars yesterday afternoon - was due to chaff emitted from some form of military testing.

Chaff, made up of thin pieces of aluminum, fiberglass or plastic, has long been used by the military as a countermeasure designed to fool radar.

blog.al.com...

Early Lancaster Chaff Dropping Window

I dunno, but points to consider...

Originally posted by gortex
.I used to be into the whole ET Cattle mutilation thing but as time went on I read reports of Helicopters being seen or heard before Cattle were found and then the theory about Government testing for radiation it just seemed to make more sense than ET doing it , why would ET put them back where they got them ?

edit on 10-7-2013 by gortex because: (no reason given)

Could you describe what sort of radiation testing?

I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Are you suggesting testing for radiation effects from nuclear weapons testing?

reply to post by BullwinkleKicksButt

Are you suggesting testing for radiation effects from nuclear weapons testing?

Yes , in the video I posted above with Gabe Valdez his belief is the Dulce, New Mexico testing was in relation to a project Gasbuggy underground test conducted just 25 miles from the town.

The American Government conducted many weapon tests in Nevada which is another hot spot for Cattle Mutilations although they have been reported across the country , which is understandable if the Government are looking for complete data results.
nuclearweaponarchive.org...

reply to post by gortex


I'll check out the video tonight.

That theory is definitely a possibility.

The questions I have regarding that are.
1) Radiation effects are fairly well established, so why would this research need to be carried out in secret?
2) Flying a helicopter to steal a cow in the middle of the night and then return it isn't exactly a cheap exercise. Why wouldn't they just purchase cows from farmers?
3) Why would they return the cow and increase the risk of getting caught in the act?
4) Why couldn't they just perform this research on lab rats or even buy their own cows?
5) These mutilations occur all over the world. Why are all these nations performing this research in secret on other peoples assets?
6) Many countries where this occurs don't even have nuclear weapons so why would their cows be irradiated?
7) By doing this, all these countries are committing crimes against their local farmers, What could be so important that they need to do this?

Originally posted by Joneselius
I'm under the impression that they're demonic.

Their clandestine way of remaining hidden is tragic. They're not benevolent and a benevolent force would not hide itself. That's where my sig comes from 'truth keeps no secrets'.

I've seen one of these 'demons' and I can tell you first hand, they are horrible. It did NOT feel good to be in it's presence and the way it moved, wobbled on it's axis' suggested it wasn't in this dimension, or at least was having trouble staying here.

I'm 100% convinced these are demons.

\

the funny thing is that secular non religious (or even God believer) UFO researcher like Jacques Vallee and Hynek admits these phenomena behaves more like the old demonology/faerie lore of the past. In fact they recommend Occult and Paranormal Knowledge is important in UFO research.

btw its been documented that many (real) UFO investigator are experiencing some kind of paranormal/unexplainable stuff happening that made them quit the field. Just like any investigator doing research on occultism/demonology, they will for certain experience things that unexplainable.

sadly skeptic and debunkers are never exposed to these phenomena because all they did was debunk from the safety of their own armchair. Let them loose on the dark nights at the site of UFO flaps alone, im sure that will turn these armchair skeptics into blabbering coward that they really are

Originally posted by milomilo
btw its been documented that many (real) UFO investigator are experiencing some kind of paranormal/unexplainable stuff happening that made them quit the field. Just like any investigator doing research on occultism/demonology, they will for certain experience things that unexplainable.

Do you have any specific details, names etc.
I have heard some interesting stories about skinwalker ranch regarding UFO and Paranormal activity. Are you refering to something like that?

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by UncleVinnys

 

Without merit you say ? , well lets see .
The idea has merit according to Gabe Valdez a former New Mexico state patrol officer who has been investigating Cattle Mutilations since the 70s .

Valdez also said that UFOs seen in the area were actually advanced military craft, some of which were involved with picking up these animals to conduct experiments on them and then returning them without being seen. He says the animals were returned mutilated in order to make locals believe it was done by extraterrestrials. As for the identity and motives of this secret military group, Valdez said those topics were too "sensitive" to discuss.

Valdez also said that UFOs seen in the area were actually advanced military craft, some of which were involved with picking up these animals to conduct experiments on them and then returning them without being seen. He says the animals were returned mutilated in order to make locals believe it was done by extraterrestrials.

edit on 12-7-2013 by gortex because: (no reason given)

Thanks for a thoughtful and complete response.

Still these are "samples of 1" - in other words, it is the testimony of just one person. No large scale studies or in-depth analysis.

Try reading some of what Linda Moulton-Howe has written.

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

Originally posted by milomilo
btw its been documented that many (real) UFO investigator are experiencing some kind of paranormal/unexplainable stuff happening that made them quit the field. Just like any investigator doing research on occultism/demonology, they will for certain experience things that unexplainable.

Do you have any specific details, names etc.
I have heard some interesting stories about skinwalker ranch regarding UFO and Paranormal activity. Are you refering to something like that?

I'd like to hear about anything you can tell me about first hand experiences regarding the skin walker story.

Originally posted by g2v12

Originally posted by BullwinkleKicksButt

Originally posted by milomilo
btw its been documented that many (real) UFO investigator are experiencing some kind of paranormal/unexplainable stuff happening that made them quit the field. Just like any investigator doing research on occultism/demonology, they will for certain experience things that unexplainable.

Do you have any specific details, names etc.
I have heard some interesting stories about skinwalker ranch regarding UFO and Paranormal activity. Are you refering to something like that?

I'd like to hear about anything you can tell me about first hand experiences regarding the skin walker story.

Start listening from 40 minutes. A team of investigators were sent to the ranch to study the phenomenon. This group of people experienced everything from ufo, to poltergeist phenomenon while staying at the ranch. There is also a book available if you want to know more (Hunt For The Skinwalker)

reply to post by UncleVinnys

Try reading some of what Linda Moulton-Howe has written.

When I was a believer in ET cattle mutilations Eartfiles was a regular destination of mine , I remember it before it was subscription based .
Over time I found Linda to be a little to eager to believe what she was told and less discerning than I would of liked , to a point where as I became aware that all was not as it at first seemed she just kept on investigating to support her own conclusions and probably to keep her subscribers happy .

Now I'm afraid I see Linda Howe as part of the problem and a participant in the perpetuation of what I believe is a Psyop .

Thank you for at least understanding my point of view. I'm sorry I caused offence to some people. I'll keep my religious artifacts to myself next time.

There were three posters who told me of direct experiences with these beings and crafts and so far all have been very negative, imagine that? The one's who have experienced it tend to agree, the one's who didn't, at least not up close, don't.

I'm so sorry to hear about the abduction case, I can't imagine what it does to you on a nightly basis. I didn't even see the occupants, or if there was any. If I did I think it would've scrambled my head to mushy peas. Though I was talking to a woman in work the other day, a very mainstream lady, one who cares about public perception of her and her looks and yada yada, she candidly told me she'd seen an alien when she was a little younger. She also described the overwhelming feeling of malice and dread. It felt like my soul was being vampirised is how she put it. She saw the occupants though. Greys. I simply can't imagine the terror that must cause. I'm so sorry you had to go through it, truly. I will pray for all of you..

Thank you for at least understanding my point of view. I'm sorry I caused offence to some people. I'll keep my religious artifacts to myself next time.

There were three posters who told me of direct experiences with these beings and crafts and so far all have been very negative, imagine that? The one's who have experienced it tend to agree, the one's who didn't, at least not up close, don't.

I'm so sorry to hear about the abduction case, I can't imagine what it does to you on a nightly basis. I didn't even see the occupants, or if there was any. If I did I think it would've scrambled my head to mushy peas. Though I was talking to a woman in work the other day, a very mainstream lady, one who cares about public perception of her and her looks and yada yada, she candidly told me she'd seen an alien when she was a little younger. She also described the overwhelming feeling of malice and dread. It felt like my soul was being vampirised is how she put it. She saw the occupants though. Greys. I simply can't imagine the terror that must cause. I'm so sorry you had to go through it, truly. I will pray for all of you..

Originally posted by Joneselius
Thank you for at least understanding my point of view. I'm sorry I caused offense to some people. I'll keep my religious artifacts to myself next time.

There were three posters who told me of direct experiences with these beings and crafts and so far all have been very negative, imagine that? The one's who have experienced it tend to agree, the one's who didn't, at least not up close, don't.

I understand where you are coming from and I hope others here will remain tolerant. I know from my own experience that when a person forms an opinion based on a personal belief system, he is unconsciously (even with the best intentions) imposing his frame of reference upon the matter, even if it doesn't jive with the perceptional origins of others. I was a priest and then a Muslim for decades, and struggled with my own consciousness within this very defined thought construction.

Religion, whether of Abrahamic or of other origins requires it's subjects to conform all reasoning to a framework taken from ancient holy texts, which may or may not apply to the psycho-spiritual sophistication of present day humanity. These texts, ostensibly recorded by prophets (and that's a matter of faith) were written for the uneducated, superstitious, nihilistic masses who performed ritualistic public executions on anyone found to be anti-cultural. Compare this to the democratic virtue of the "rule-of-law", in which authority comes from a constitution, not a political or spiritual leader. This is what broadly defines the scope of civilization and it unique character of origins.

We cannot help but base our reasoning upon defined beliefs (which by the way come from people whose characters we know nothing about). And as you know, the ETs are adept at operating clandestinely, for a number of reasons. Religious or not, calling them demons doesn't really serve the data in my opinion, and even when I was religious I never accepted the standard explanation by religious authorities.

Every belief system has its dogma. The human mind is specifically attuned to religious dogmas, government propaganda and all kinds of unverified information from people calling themselves contactees, abductees and investigators.