The UFO Threat

Originally posted by The GUT
When I hear folk talk of the modern UFO age as starting with Kenneth Arnold and then proffering the argument that these civilizations are probably eons ahead of us in evolution, it makes me wonder why they seem eager to dismiss the fact that the phenomenon has been reported throughout recorded history.

EXACTLY!

I didn't address it in the OP, mostly because I ran out of characters, but this phenomenon is anything but contemporary. The only thing the Arnold sighting did for it, was usher in the notion that it was "Little Green Men".

Arnold, in an interview, admitted that he had no idea whether or not they were advanced military aircraft, but the proverbial cat was out of the bag.

Also, the entities seem to wholeheartedly embrace, and take advantage of, the fact that we think them "extraterrestrial". If anything, it seems to work to some sort of advantage.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
S & F OP. I find the debate over the extraterrestrial hypothesis and inter-dimensional hypothesis, to be one of the more interesting debates in the UFO phenomenon.

When I look into the past history of the occult and it's connections, then look at the similaries with what abudctee's and witnesses have encountered - it's there to see quite plainly. I'm often amused, because I'm rather certain if this phenomenon is happening today, then we can probably be sure, it was happening way back when to.

They are another being, not human. Regardless of whether it flew billions of light years to get here, or gathered up enough energy to project itself into our reality from a field of reality we can't perceive - regardless - it's still an ALIEN. As to their motivation - well - in that we have to look at testimony to. Abductee's for the majority - seem to me, to feel threatened by certain beings that they encounter. Ignoring this aspect of the phenomenon, in favor of imagining them as benign or merely observers, is taking a rather big leap of faith in them. Aliens that is. IMO.

Semantics, indeed. Regardless of their ultimate origin, the phenomenon is utterly "alien" to us, but not necessarily "interplanetary", if that makes sense.

What chaps my hind quarters is when folks speak in absolutes in regards to this topic. In fact, folks in this very thread are actively defending beings, for which, we have no proof of existence. This is indicative of how easily we can be manipulated, without the need for advanced technology.

As an aside, if you look at the phenomenon of the Men in Black, the only thing "new" about it, is that they wear suits, and drive late-model Buicks. In the past, they were still portents of ill-will, and not without the similar Modus Operandi; only, in the past, they were associated with witchery and the occult, instead of UFOs.

There's so many unanswered questions, but when the research goes past the myopic "aliens", you start to see parallels in historic encounters with the paranormal and supernatural. The very nature of it all is anything but ephemeral.

It seems, whatever these objects and critters are, they have an ability to, somewhat, reflect the ideas of the time. While their ambiguous, and cloak-and-dagger nature never changes, their appearance does seem to wax and wane with what fits the current paradigm or world-view.

The times change, but their motives and behavior do NOT. The phenomenon sometimes, to me anyway, resembles a sort of self-adapting mirror that reflects our current beliefs, and forms itself accordingly; however, ultimately it's the same song and dance, with a different costume designer.

It's like a hamburger and a cheeseburger. They're both pretty much the same thing, one's just dressed-up a little differently...

If They Wanted You Dead You And I and everybody else would already be so.

So stop your fearmongering and the total opposite of Threat is what you destined

to receive

ITS ALREADY A DONE DEAL..

Regards
Plazmuh

reply to post by AllenBishop


Or if checking out the ethics of humanity and whether it is worthy of continued habitation of Earth or anywhere else, perhaps prior surveillance rendered humanity 'unsafe' or too 'underdeveloped' or 'unpredictable' to comprehend higher intelligence's and all that encompasses.

Would you like to build your house in a chimpanzee zone? Would you drop in and announce yourself and your high tech ways to a land populated of gorillas?

Perhaps remaining cloaked and communicating to those that are most likely to comprehend ie those that function on a higher wavelength is the safest option as a means of 'testing the water' or communicating that which needs communicating.

You think the governments of the world would gladly say ''ok aliens of higher intelligence, take over / join us / give us advice etc'' or would they view 'aliens' as suspicious or indeed the hick mentality that we have heard so often on these threads.

Any higher intelligence would most likely see humanity exactly as it is uncloaked, which the truth of the matter is that humanity is corrupt, warmongering, deceitful and unethical. Hence best avoided.

Think about it, besides the international corruption, lack of ethics, wars etc the highest percentage of humanity is largely unwashed and uneducated, mostly filled full of some antiquated belief systems that they hold true to despite evolution. In fact this very lack of evolution in such a large percentage of humanity could be it's undoing.

Just because something is unknown doesn't render it 'jinn' or 'evil' or 'satanic'.

If you believe in such things then you should also believe in angels and faeries which are lovely and they aren't sitting at your dinner table taking lunch nor are they visibly floating around for all to see. Or is this some other sort of 'cloaked' to you?

Just because something is unknown doesn't render it 'jinn' or 'evil' or 'satanic'.

I never said it was...

What I did allude to, was that, based on the pattern of what is reported, there is evidence to suggest that the ETH is quaint, at best, and that there is certainly more to the phenomenon as a whole, than initially meets the eye.

The threat, in a nutshell, is that there is a mysterious cross-current of phenomena, for which, we have no solid explanation for. Attempting to formulate anything other than best-guesses is a crapshoot. I would suggest that the supernatural nature of the phenomenon further erodes the ability to obtain clear answers; a lack of the proverbial "alien ashtray" left behind makes scientific scrutiny almost impossible. Furthermore, when you compare the similarities between the current UFO phenomenon and historic accounts of the supernatural, you find that it appears to be one and the same.

The problem is that, somehow, in the course of the modern-era of the phenomenon (post-1947), a sort of "Alien Religion" has cropped up, and anyone who dares speak against the ETH is a heretic to UFOlogy.

After almost 70 years, I would suggest we rethink the whole notion that the phenomenon has its roots in some intergalactic hijinks. The biggest proponents of the ETH have been charlatans, and roguish, quasi-government agents. I've stated again, and again, and again, and again, that anyone who proclaims "The Truth", in regards to the phenomenon is either a psychopath, a fool, or a con-man (or a con-ma'am if I want to be PC).

The only "TRUTH" to the subject is that:

1) There is something inexplicable going on.
2) No one, really, has any flippin' clue as to what it is.

The best we can do is postulate, and use what we can infer from what little clues and evidence there is.

Is my theory correct? I haven't the foggiest idea. But I'm not gonna sit here and have the audacity to suggest there's ANY validity to the Intergalactic Brotherhood of Ashtarian Spacemen Reptilians, that shapeshift in their underground facilities, while drinking cow blood with Pleidian Venusian Zeta Hybrids, and playing X-box with Nordic Vrils working on "Die Glocke" while vacationing east of the Hamptons in Montauk, and commuting to the reverse-engineering facility via high-speed rail lines, underground, of course; all in order to rectally probe us, "for our own good", and generally usher in a new age of Vibrational Awareness, after we have our exchange students go to Serpo to bring peace and Intergalatic Harmony, but, we are hiding all this from ourselves because the evil oil companies don't want the free energy devices to come out...

The previous paragraph is what happens when people start taking this stuff as gospel. The whole UFO arena is an absolute mess; and the majority of that mess has been caused by the absolute, undying faith, emphasis on the word, "faith", that the phenomenon is of an extraterrestrial origin, and that's all there is to it. No debate!

Obviously, after 70 years, the extraterrestrial excuse has worn thin, and hasn't led us so much as one step closer to any hard and fast answers. If anything, it's only helped to muddy the discourse with utter fantasy and touchy-feely BS.

reply to post by Joneselius


100% sure they are demons.
If this were true i doubt they would be allowed to abduct people (good or bad), you wouldn't be able to see them as the bible states, and why would they be in the skies? last time i checked they fell from heaven.
Where would they get such technology to be flying around, and why?


Just to clarify i made reference to the bible not to come out as a religious person, but because if you believe in demons... its obvious you believe in god. i mean you wouldnt believe in demons alone? unless your some kind of witch

I find the whole argument between the guy calling aliens demons, and the ones opposing his view EXTREMELY interesting.

The MOST interesting aspect of it all (besides the content) is you are all arguing over rather subjective experiences (and SOME of you arguing against him aren't even arguing from a subjective point of view....you are arguing based on FEELINGS, and what you've READ).


As someone who has made the unfortunate contact with Greys....I will agree with the guy calling them "demons". I have been in a battle for my life ever since then....and it has affected me in extremely negative ways. I suffer from a physical illness now , that started the DAY AFTER the experience, and has been on-going for about 14 years now. I've had all the tests done on my body by cardiologists, neurologists, general practitioners, etc that I could afford with my insurance. To this day we haven't figured out what happened/is happening to me...besides an elevated protein which the doctors say they don't understand yet how or even IF it is related.

I can't speak for all ETs.....only the Greys. They ARE multi-dimensional, and I do NOT believe they are working on humanities behalf. Could I be wrong? Absolutely! Like I said, these are all VERY subjective experiences.


I honestly see truth in BOTH sides of the argument.



I also do not believe the aliens come from another physical place in the universe like they would have us believe. At least, not the way they are presenting it. I think they have been here possibly longer than we have....and I know they don't share JUST this physical 3d world like we do......they are multi-dimensional, or from another dimension of sorts.


I do NOT know what the end game is. Someone said "If they wanted to kill us, they would just do it". I agree entirely, although I DON'T agree that the statement has ANYTHING to do with whether or not they are good or bad. I don't think they want to kill us....however, I don't think their intentions are selfless.


I also agree VERY , VERY much that if they had altruistic intentions, they would have found the proper avenues of contact by now, and wouldn't be working in the shadows. Something is seriously not right here.

I also agree about the false predictions. They DEFINITELY seem to be misleading mankind.


I would like to hope that there are positive ETs out there....working with certain individuals to better mankind. That would be amazing, and I have hope.




Anyway, none of us should be arguing over these subjective experiences. Debating is more than fine....it is how we learn, how we grow....but let us not attack each other over our differences of opinion. The truth is, NONE of us know what is really going on here.

Even those of us who have been abducted, or had close encounters, are only getting a SMALL, TINY piece of the picture. We can't really trust our own memories and senses completely, because I think those of us who have been contacted, realize how easy it is for them to manipulate those things.



Let us all work TOGETHER, hand in hand, in doing our best to discover this mystery together.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Originally posted by Joneselius
reply to post by NotAnAspie

 

What are you even talking about?

I saw a UFO not an alien!? I said the UFO was demonic. Dude seriously at least read my posts. It didn't stand in front of anything, it was in the air. I didn't feel any ill will toward it in the beginning, I felt nothing but excitement, it was when it started doing what it did I changed my stance.

You mean to tell me that you do not even know who was driving the damn thing and you have already concluded from this experience that aliens are evil demonic creatures.

That is insane. Purely insane.

I hope for the sake of innocent people and victims of the world that you never get jury duty.

you are obsessed with demonizing something you didn't even see. God help you.

I don't think it is insane at all.

Comparing the decision to trust your instincts when meeting another conscious individual....and trying someone in a court of law are two different things.

There are MANY people I have met, that within a few minutes I could immediately tell they were NOT someone I wanted in my life. I did NOT need a court of law for that.

Granted, our intuitions are not always correct, but neither are the decisions made in a court of law. Many cases get over turned on false evidence, and false juror convictions.


He is not claiming to be able to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the beings he interacted with are evil. What is saying, is that immediately he knew something was wrong with them. EVERYONE has that instinct.



Was he perhaps wrong in his judgement? Perhaps! However, he is NOT on here trying to force people to believe in HIS opinions....he is merely sharing his opinions.

I have met MANY of "crusaders" in my life....people on a so called "religious" mission, out to convert everyone they meet....and this guy does not seem like that. He isn't preaching here at all, he is merely discussing his conclusions based on his direct experience......which is all ANY of us can really do.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
S & F OP. I find the debate over the extraterrestrial hypothesis and inter-dimensional hypothesis, to be one of the more interesting debates in the UFO phenomenon.

When I look into the past history of the occult and it's connections, then look at the similaries with what abudctee's and witnesses have encountered - it's there to see quite plainly. I'm often amused, because I'm rather certain if this phenomenon is happening today, then we can probably be sure, it was happening way back when to.

I don't see why it's so difficult to accept culture and actually look at history and really try and discern what our ancient ancestors were trying to convey to us. In all of these stories, one thing rather stands out to me. We are not the only intelligent sentient creatures in existence. This is across all cultures and beliefs, not one fails to mention the beings from the heavens. Now today, we have a phenomenon that is indicating - we are not the only intelligent sentient creatures in existence. Uhhh... duhhh.. When is it that any religion - EVER - claimed otherwise? So yeah, I get where they are coming from, religious folk. They've accepted ET (heavenly beings) as part of God's creation, since the beginning. Everyone else is playing catch up and simply playing semantics claiming - oh we're talking about a "different" phenomenon. Well - that I believe - is up for debate.

They are another being, not human. Regardless of whether it flew billions of light years to get here, or gathered up enough energy to project itself into our reality from a field of reality we can't perceive - regardless - it's still an ALIEN. As to their motivation - well - in that we have to look at testimony to. Abductee's for the majority - seem to me, to feel threatened by certain beings that they encounter. Ignoring this aspect of the phenomenon, in favor of imagining them as benign or merely observers, is taking a rather big leap of faith in them. Aliens that is. IMO.

Semantics. Oye.

Peace,
Cirque

I agree. Not only do I agree, but I would like to add that when and if someone is able to view the conundrum of aliens visiting earth, and abducting people, as a multi-dimensional issue, not merely a terrestrial one...I think a LOT of things start to fall into place.

1) The missing time people experience
2) The ability of UFOs to move faster than the speed of light (which they would almost HAVE to , unless their lifespans are MANY thousands of years)
3) the fact that many UFOs look like balls of energy, or energy in general, and how some flicker in and out of reality


There are many more things that make sense when you view it as a multi-dimensional issue, but I'm too tired right now to continue to list them.

reply to post by AllenBishop


I have my own experience based opinions on the fact I believe in extra terrestrial, on Earth and with the ability for very fast sky / space travel.

Having grown up in a MOD town and having mentioned such things since a child I have the belief that the MOD and Government have knowledge of such beings. This has been made clear to me on numerous occasions.

Hence to me it isn't an extra terrestrial ''excuse'' it is reality and fact. I do not doubt such extra terrestrial intelligence / entities / beings have dimensional abilities but I also believe are physical beings as fact. Physical in such as way as having control over physical forces and matter that isn't comprehensible to humans.

If a person says they know it all and talk to Reptilians etc I hold this as skeptical, as for the detailed accounts of Galactic Federations and such like, it seems more like people following in the footsteps of Carl Sagan or whoever coined these terms in the first place.

Originally posted by AllenBishop
I've stated, time and time again, that "goodness" doesn't operate under cloak of darkness. It has no reason to.

So nice and rare that people exercise logic

good for you man

Have you ever thought that the governments of the Earth do not want them to be made public?

Ever considered ETI are here and the governments know about it but there could be some sort of deal?

If such ETI being of advanced intelligence were revealed how do you think the nations of Earth would take it? A large percent could dismiss and or consider it an insult to their beliefs, the rest could be all ''they aren't better than us'' or all ''get 'em'' hick style etc, would there be law and order?

Perhaps it is best to keep certain things hidden sometimes. Furthermore perhaps ETI doesn't want to be revealed just yet.

Furthermore, you claim no proof of anything, that would also mean no proof of anything sinister, for all you know the govs could be using programs making abductees mind controlled, men in black etc.

post by JilianK
So nice and rare that people exercise logic

I see very little logic in the OP , just forcing bits of a puzzle together that aren't in reality related to each other .

The reported entities make predictions. Predictions, which ultimately fail to manifest. Why even bother?

People make predictions there is no evidence to suggest that any entities Alien or otherwise are involved .

Why would technologically advanced beings fly 8 trillion light years from Polysorbate-60, to preach saucer-sermons about impersonal space-gurus

Assumption , there is no evidence that Aliens are in any way involved in the new age movement , and why would technologically advanced beings fly 8 trillion light years from a food additive ? ,8 trillion light years? , is that just making light of the thought that another species could find and visit this planet.

and basically regurgitate the same patchouli-scented bullchip one might get from hanging out with Shirley MacLaine? Crystal healing? Channeling Ashtar? Seriously!?!?!?

Again people cashing in on other peoples need to believe , no Aliens involved , Ashtar is for the weak of mind and the easily led

There is a coincidence with other paranormal phenomena; UFO witnesses experiencing poltergeists, encountering strange, black-clad gibbering men, etc

As you used the Hill case lets deal with that , one would need to believe that the Hill's abduction actually happened and even if it did surely the follow up experiences with poltergeists says more about them than it does about Alien abduction .
I find it unsurprising that Government agencies would take an interest in the Hills given the story they told and the attention they received

There is speculation, on some level, that the phenomenon is directly related to the animal mutilation problem.

Speculation is proof of nothing other than a lack of evidence , there is speculation that animal mutilation is the Government monitoring radiation levels and effects on tissue from past Atomic bomb tests...which is more likely ?

All that can be stated definitively is we, ultimately, don't have a clue what's going on.

That I agree with to a point .

And that, in itself, is threatening.

And that I don't .

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
Have you ever thought that the governments of the Earth do not want them to be made public?

So, creatures that are capable of routinely undertaking interstellar travel, are held at bay by the same gooberment that can't balance a checkbook? No, I haven't thought that possible.

If such ETI being of advanced intelligence were revealed how do you think the nations of Earth would take it?

I don't know if you've ever had to undergo severe personal tragedy, but I would have to say it would be business as usual. The bank isn't going to waive my car-payment because the "aliens are here". Life would go on. I would argue that the "status quo" is more powerful than intergalactic space invaders.

reply to post by AllenBishop


So you couldn't consider the idea of ETI diplomacy and possible gov deals?

You also couldn't consider the possibility the POPULATIONS might want answers, free energy, communication, tech solutions etc and the establishment would want to keep things ticking over as per usual because it is in ther power and financial interests to do so. You do not consider there could be a dichotomy, a conflict of interests from populations and establishments. You should consider these things, consider that governments want their power and control and also have to assure the safety of the populations from rioting or chaos that such a MAJOR REVELATION would bring.

I can tell you something, the general consensus would not be of the shoulder shrugging variety you just mentioned.

The revelation of ETI on Earth is major, and would bring media saturation the like of which you have never known.

Hmmmpf...I could sworn 2011 was the year that judgement was coming...Anyways, if UFO of alien origins are such perceived threat and are going to be hostile demons, then their is nothing that the armies can do about it.
If we tried nuking them, then we pretty much damned ourselves to hell, and the visitors would probably say it their fault that we blasted ourselves with nukes.

Plus, they seem like they wanna remain in the superstitious part of minds.

reply to post by AllenBishop

I've always viewed the UFO phenomenon as a "threat"; however, the nature of threat is, at present, without conclusion. Whether the UFOs and related phenomena pose a threat to our very physical well-being, or merely to our understanding of consciousness and/or reality remains to be seen. That being said, I take immense issue with the supposition that the phenomenon has its origins in outer space; despite that being the predominant theory posited in regards to the subject.

You should take immense issue with that supposition as the term UFO can be confusing for some but its real simple actually.

If its unidentified then its origins and or purpose are basically wild speculation.

To view the phenomena as a threat is also quite ignorant but from another point of view if ET exists and make contact and are hostile than this idea as viewing the unknown as threat has its advantages but only if like I said their existence becomes reality.

To view it as threat because the whole phenomena is a man made concept to expand thinking to revolutionize the religions of the world into a more modern thinking and to also be able to hide technology and experimentation that is viewed as science fiction by most of the general public excluding ATS members of-coarse.

reply to post by gortex

I see very little logic in the OP, just forcing bits of a puzzle together that aren't in reality related to each other.

Thanks for the personal attack. I appreciate that. Your opinion is very important to me.

People make predictions there is no evidence to suggest that any entities Alien or otherwise are involved.

Predictions of the future are part-and-parcel of the reported abduction experience. It is a recurring theme. Usually the predictions have to do with an "impending cataclysm" for which, said abductee is being "prepared for". Like everything else the "visitors" say, pretty much turns out to be bull shizzle.

Assumption , there is no evidence that Aliens are in any way involved in the new age movement , and why would technologically advanced beings fly 8 trillion light years from a food additive ? ,8 trillion light years? , is that just making light of the thought that another species could find and visit this planet.

Dude. I was being silly. Obviously, you never played Space Quest 6...I love me some Sierra On-Line Adventure games...

As you used the Hill case lets deal with that , one would need to believe that the Hill's abduction actually happened and even if it did surely the follow up experiences with poltergeists says more about them than it does about Alien abduction.

So...basically, it's just pure dice-rolling that, and it isn't just the Hills, there is often supernatural/paranormal phenomena that accompany the UFO and abduction experiences? Is that what you're alluding to? Pure coincidence, right?

I find it unsurprising that Government agencies would take an interest in the Hills given the story they told and the attention they received.

That's good, mostly because the Blue Book investigation determined the Hills' encounter to have been the Planet Jupiter.

Speculation is proof of nothing other than a lack of evidence , there is speculation that animal mutilation is the Government monitoring radiation levels and effects on tissue from past Atomic bomb tests...which is more likely

There's no lack of evidence on the animal mutilations; just a lack of suspects.

What is more likely? I would say that if I were wanting to take a random sampling of data on animals, I could buy livestock, have them delivered to my facility, obtain whatever data necessary, and properly dispose of the remains far more economically, and with less hazard, than say...

...air-lifting cattle into a Chinook, a Super-Secret Silent Chinook, at that, chopping them up with portable LASERs (in 1967, no less), and performing a laboratory experiment inside an UNSTABLE helicopter, AT NIGHT, and then, just for the fun of it, dropping said bovine back off at the ranch where I snatched her from, just to get ole' Rancher Bob hot under the collar. Because, you know, leaving evidence behind is how you properly pull off a covert operation.

If its unidentified then its origins and or purpose are basically wild speculation.

"In order to address the issue, we have to, for the sake of intellectual curiosity, assume a certain legitimacy to the reported experiences and encounters." - Allen Bishop

I swear, people read what they want to read. Yes, speculation is all we have, as no one has brought back any souvenirs from the alien gift shop.

reply to post by AllenBishop

Thanks for the personal attack.

It's not a personal attack it's an observation , I refer to the OP as in the opening post not the poster .

Dude. I was being silly. Obviously, you never played Space Quest 6

You are correct .

Is that what you're alluding to? Pure coincidence, right?

I was thinking more overactive imagination , although as I said I think it possible that they did attract the attention of certain agencies .

That's good, mostly because the Blue Book investigation determined the Hills' encounter to have been the Planet Jupiter.

Given Blue Book's track record that doesn't surprise me .

...air-lifting cattle into a Chinook, a Super-Secret Silent Chinook, at that, chopping them up with portable LASERs (in 1967, no less)...

I didn't say that was what is happening but it is a theory just as ET being responsible is , I would say the terrestrial explanation is most likely but can't rule out an extraterrestrial explanation .

Originally posted by AllenBishop

If its unidentified then its origins and or purpose are basically wild speculation.

"In order to address the issue, we have to, for the sake of intellectual curiosity, assume a certain legitimacy to the reported experiences and encounters." - Allen Bishop

I swear, people read what they want to read. Yes, speculation is all we have, as no one has brought back any souvenirs from the alien gift shop.

And I was agreeing with obviously that is why my post started with the agreeing statement.

You should take immense issue with that supposition

People sure can read what they want to,

I read what I want, yes, I also understand what I read.