Why didn't God smite Adam & Eve?

I think he did smite them a bit. Didn't he separate them and make Adam go stand in a river for 40 days?

It may have been years, it's been a while since I read it.

Interesting to me are many things about the story, the 40 (days/years) the rivers, the punishment of separation, which I think may be the worst punishment of all, and roll that all up with the usual questions (plural God?) and the thought that the answers are in there somewhere...

Well, interesting reading, at the VERY least. (I think.)

Originally posted by windsorblue
Sorry if these question's cause any offence, that is not my intention, they are question's that have beleaguered my little mind since childhood (I did ask the questions in the Catholic school I attended, but being called a 'wicked boy' and getting my backside leathered with a wooden ruler was not really the answer I was hoping for) so here goes:

Q) Why didn’t God smite Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit? In the Old Testament God is not too shy in smiting and a slaying all those who have offended him. Would it have not been a better idea to restart from the beginning with the destruction of these two, create a new couple who would adhere to his rules and negate humanity being cast out of Eden?

Is there any serious theological answers to these please? (this is my first thread, please be gentle)

Great question.Ive read most of the responses including a few more that you made.

I think Occams razor would cut to the chase of most arguments so I'll attempt to do just that.Mankind (the race Adam which is what Adam means) were not "created" perfect.That is the 1st false premise and should be the most obvious.Sin is defined in the Strongs concordance as missing or falling short of the mark.I think that is a perfect example of sin...it falls short and misses the mark of what sin is and means.

Sin is imperfection...immaturity..most translations of the scripture for perfect is maturity and of course it's "im".Those words meaning fit much more closely to the heart of sin ...not the hyperbolic religious definition with lightning bolts and threats of eternal punishment by a psychotic God.

So ...mankind was born imperfect..immature(sinful).Man doesn't sin and Become sinful..they are imperfect so they sin.It is preposterous for anyone to say they know God yet to think he didn't know what mankind would do and was.The Creator God made man imperfect.Is that really a mystery.100% of everyone dies.He told them they would die...and they did.God is not "smiting" anyone for eating "fruit" ....a 5 year old could figure that out.

I'm not judging anyone.Religion has effected everyone whether we know it or not.(and everything IS religion)Either through indoctrination or REALITY or just exposure to its legions of forms .There has and will be a time the multiple blinders come off our eyes and begin to see the truth clearly.One of those blinders concealing the Truth is KNOWING we don't know the Truth!

My suggestion for anyone if that doctrine of man(or any doctrine) is a stumbling stone ...walk around it.Kicking it will do you no good .All you'll get is a bum foot.The core fact is man is imperfect(immature) there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to BECOME mature...NOTHING.No reading and studying of a book of religion, or saying of saving prayers,or baptisms or following the teachings of foolish men(all men) astral projections, channeling,ascension..it is all futility.

Again my suggestion is drop the crap(spiritual voodoo) you don't "know" about that is foolish belief.It won't help to kick the rock.Just live.Do what you "hear"(him that has ears to hear WILL hear).The religious will need books and doctrines and laws to "be "good" the righteous man "that hears" won't tell his left hand what his right hand is doing ....or ANYONE elses what it ought to do.It really is Occams razor....K.I.S.S..... pass the apple.

reply to post by windsorblue


Because, then there would have been no lesson learned. And they had the world ahead to populate.

I have the opinion of the death penalty as well...not in every case of course, but its like someone is sentenced to DIE...we KILL them...and then rub our hands together saying "There! That showed him! He'll never do THAT again. We taught him, didnt we?!"

I sure dont believe either we should take care of those with death sentences in prison either till they die of old age and "natural" causes.

With Adam and Eve....they were taught a life-and moral lesson. One to pass on to the generations they would propogate...and a lesson in "FREE WILL" and "consequences".

You've obviously read the Bible being a Catholic.

May I suggest you read it again, the answer is in there. If you have any difficulty go to a good baptist church or similar and someone will explain it for you.

reply to post by windsorblue


No, the serpent is a liar. Always was; always will be. God warned Adam and Eve that they would die -- and they do die, both spiritually and physically. God did not shoot down lightening at Adam and Eve simply because he loved them. In fact, He loved His whole creation and called it very good but Adam and Eve's action put a curse on all creation, too, so God sent Someone to bring creation back to Him.

If I warn my child not to do something, and he does it anyway, thus bringing horrible consequences upon himself, I still love this child and will do whatever I can to help restore him, despite how hurt and sorrowful I might feel. Wouldn't you do the same?

Good discussion!

I actually forgot about the part were God told them they would die if they ate the fruit (unless they were intended to be immortal and death was part of the punishment ) and what the serpent told them turned out to be the truth, but what if they would have eaten from the tree of life, I wonder what would have happened then???

reply to post by windsorblue


INstead of thinking why didn't he smite him, you should ask why did God, all knowing, let the devil persuade them into eating the fruits off the tree.
What i think, is that it was a test to show them the enemy of mankind. To let them learn by their mistakes just like everyone today.
Before he created man He knew that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree. Making the logical conclution that since He gave them free will He let them decide, Even though He knew what would happen. Before they were naive, but by letting them fail they realized the mistake they made.
And there is no curse or "original sin" in a human being that was caused by eating the apple. That would be ridiculous to think that we all share the same burden of eating a apple that happened so many centuries ago.
Since our Grand Parents sinned we are all doomed? Everybody has a choice weither we ask for forgiveness thats up to each individual.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by windsorblue, but what if they would have eaten from the tree of life, I wonder what would have happened then???

I maintain that they DID eat from the tree of life, that they were eating it continuously until they were expelled, and that the purpose of the expulsion was not to prevent them eating from it, but to prevent them continuing to eat from it.
(I'm not assuming that the story is literal, but I think this was how the writer of Genesis wanted the story to be understood).
I wrote a thread on the subject;Did they eat from the tree of life?

With all due respect, I think they were kicked out of Eden because the Tree of Life was there. If they had eaten from this tree after they sinned, they would have lived forever in a state of sin. Immortal and sinful...

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by windsorblue
reply to post by Cuervo

 

I actually forgot about the part were God told them they would die if they ate the fruit (unless they were intended to be immortal and death was part of the punishment ) and what the serpent told them turned out to be the truth, but what if they would have eaten from the tree of life, I wonder what would have happened then???

That's a great question and here's why: When a Christian and I are discussing Genesis, I might bring up the whole part about Adam's god lying about the trees and the serpent telling the truth and that Christian will almost always come back with "But the tree did kill them because they were immortal before that!". But then... why was there a tree of life that their god was afraid of them eating if they were already immortal?!

It's just an uncomfortable topic because, if you are to take Genesis literally, a Christian would have to admit that the god in the garden was lying and that the serpent was not. They were never immortal and the tree of knowledge did not kill them. In fact, the only bad things to come of it was what their god chose to do to them as punishment. All the tree did was make them awesome.

People compare it to the child and the hot stove but that's a bad analogy. It's incorrect because the tree was not harmful in and of itself. So a more correct analogy would be telling a kid that they can't read their ABC book. The child reads it and the parent curses that child and every descendant that child will ever ever ever have.

I don't believe that whole pantheon anyway but, if I did, I'd totally be on the serpent's side. He's not the one who screwed my entire species nor lied to me about it.

Your deceptive argument is easily foiled.
The matter of immortality was not decided yet. God could have allowed them at some point to become immortal by allowing them to eat from the tree of life at that point in the story. The matter was decided when they ate from the forbidden tree, their chance to partake of the tree of life was removed, and thus Gods promise was fulfilled and they would surely die because they ate what was forbidden. There is no lie in there from God. The lie is from the Serpent who promised they would be like God. Since God is boundless with no beginning or end, they surely were not made like God after eating, they had a beginning and now they had an end too. The Serpent on the other hand already knew he had an end, for he had rebelled long before. The prospect of Man becoming eternal and therefore more like God than him was unbearable, which explains the motive for his actions. The Serpent had immortality and lost it, Man only lost the prospect of immortality without ever receiving it and then throwing it away.

reply to post by AshleyD


1. God didn't show very much mercy to anyone in the OT.

1 Samuel 15
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

I think Yahweh was a bit bipolar, he even killed little babies and animals that had absolutely nothing to do with what the Amalek did.

2. It seems like the world is a big party and free for all WITH god, much less without him. Belief in god has justified many genocides throughout history, including the example I gave above.

It doesn't seem like there's much difference between the world having god or not.

I won't apologise for my answer, as you politely did your question.
My answer is candid and is what I genuinely believe.

A: Because he doesn't exist

I will read the rest of the thread now, and no doubt regret this post to some degree.

Snf for a good question.

reply to post by windsorblue


God cast Adam and Eve from the garden of eden and they were forced to work and make their own way of life and then face death. All because they followed satan and rejected GOD AND GOD' love.

reply to post by TheRedneck


Hi, you're the 1st religious moderator I've actually come across to date. .

Although I am agnostic and don't agree with anything you've said.

I do appreciate 'how' you've aired your views. I'm not sure if it's because you're a moderator on here, or whether it's how you carry yourself in general (I'm assuming the latter) but it's so nice/refreshing to read a religious person's views and actually appreciate them for change.

It's nice to read a believers posts where I don't feel threatened about going to a 'hot place' because I don't agree.

In my 1st candid post (1 or 2 up) I mentioned I may regret my original reply. After reading your posts, my prediction/assumption was correct.

I wish the religious zealots/bigots could take a leaf out of your book.

I'm not replying to you because you're a moderator. I'm replying to you because your posts really made me think, and question myself on how I reply to these topics.

Respect.
OE123

Originally posted by GISMYS
reply to post by windsorblue

 

God cast Adam and Eve from the garden of eden and they were forced to work and make their own way of life and then face death. All because they followed satan and rejected GOD AND GOD' love.

Hi, I've been guilty of many sarcastic posts which do not contribute to the thread in hand.

But you've been a member for 1 day and have posted twice (which are both sarcastic)
Yes it makes me a hypocrite, but from member to member I wanted to let you know that went fly on here.

Good luck with your time on ATS

Absolutely fantastic post OP. S&F for you and for thinking, even when under the threat of punishment.

Perhaps the reason God did not smite Adam and Eve was this. He placed them in the Garden, and then in Genesis 2:15-17 (NASB) he commanded them thusly:

Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

But!!! - contrast this with what Eve says later at the beginning of Genesis 3:1-7 (NASB), when challenged by the Serpent as to the instructions concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil:

Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden?, " The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it (some ms say 'nor shall you touch it'), or you will die.’” The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate [The Fall of Man].

Two things may have mitigated His thinking:

1. Compare what God said, and Eve said above. Eve added the instruction 'nor shall you touch it' to the 'you shall not eat' instruction. Eve exaggerated! She was prone to hyperbole. In other words, Eve LIED. She lied BEFORE the Fall of Man occurred. Before the Fall of Man, how was this possible? (This is not a denigration of women btw....not my point here )

2. The most cunning and vile creature, the adversary of God, was the only one who told the friggin' TRUTH - yes, 'Your eyes will be opened and you will know good and evil (not necessarily a great thing).' God would not tell the truth, nor would Eve.....so......

So this begs the question, in the mind of the person who takes this myth literally...

If Eve lied before the Fall of Man even occurred - when sin entered into the world and had never existed before - How was she able to lie???????????????????????

and

If the vile and lying adversary of God, told the actual truth, a truth which God himself was not willing to tell.

Maybe he thought about these two things and felt a fix was more appropriate.

Originally posted by RoundAbout
With all due respect, I think they were kicked out of Eden because the Tree of Life was there. If they had eaten from this tree after they sinned, they would have lived forever in a state of sin. Immortal and sinful...

I agree that they were kicked out of Eden because the tree of life was there.
I simply disagree with "if they had eaten ONCE they would have lived for ever".
I would replace this with "if they had eaten FOR EVER, they would have lived for ever".
The placing of the tree of life makes more sense if living in the garden and eatung from the tree of life were one and the same thing. Therefore God expels them to stop them CONTINUING to eat.
The fact that the tree of life in Revelation gives fruit continuously shows that it is not a fruit which needs to be eaten only once.
You need to look at the thread I linked to see the full argument.

reply to post by windsorblue


The reason why God didn't smite Adam and Eve is because, it was part of his plan to have them partake of the fruit. God said that they could choose to eat it but that he forbade it. He gave us free agency to do what we want. Satan came and tricked Eve into eating it and because she ate it, she would become mortal and be cast out of Eden so Adam ate it too, so that he would be with his wife. The reason I say it is a part of his plan is because while they were in the garden of Eden, they were immortal and couldn't have children, but God gave them a commandment to go and replenish the Earth. The only way they could do that was by becoming mortal.

I think I finally found the answer.

They were innocent.

They had no knowledge.

If they didn't commit the crime again then casting them out of the garden and making them work for their living and bringing mortal death into the equation was punishment enough.

Originally posted by windsorblue
Sorry if these question's cause any offence, that is not my intention, they are question's that have beleaguered my little mind since childhood (I did ask the questions in the Catholic school I attended, but being called a 'wicked boy' and getting my backside leathered with a wooden ruler was not really the answer I was hoping for) so here goes:

Q) Why didn’t God smite Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit? In the Old Testament God is not too shy in smiting and a slaying all those who have offended him. Would it have not been a better idea to restart from the beginning with the destruction of these two, create a new couple who would adhere to his rules and negate humanity being cast out of Eden?

Is there any serious theological answers to these please? (this is my first thread, please be gentle)

Although Adam and Eve never existed really since it was a Foke tell back then

As well as the fact the original story was changed which included Lilith.

I would say that based on the two statements above I just posted, it would seem that there were TWO divinities that handled the task at hand. One may have said let them live, while the other may have been more of the vengeful divinity spoken of in the Old Testament.

Originally posted by windsorblue
The whole 'don't eat from the tree of knowledge' thing also bugged me, if Adam and Eve did not have any idea of right from wrong before they ate of the fruit, they would have not comprehended before hand that this was the wrong thing to do. It would not matter if God told them not to because they would not understand the concept. It also raises the question (in my own opinion) that if everyone else after Adam and Eve retained the forbidden knowledge then are we not all different to what God originally intended mankind to be?

edit on 9-7-2013 by windsorblue because: (no reason given)

No because eating the fruit was the plan in the first place. Why have it and tell them not to eat it in the first place? Also doesn't the divinity k ow all even before it happens. It was meant to happen. What's this knowledge that the fruit had? We also should know it. Which we would. So again maybe that was the plan at start

reply to post by windsorblue


It's a valid question, and you should have been given an answer as a child. I will do my best to help.

Adam and Eve did sin, and God, of course, knew they would. He could have destroyed them, and started over, but the fact is, any others created would also, eventually, have chosen to disobey. We simply cannot understand why we NEED to obey, without hard lessons. Free will is a MUST for beings that are made to be able to love. You cannot love without free will. The purest love, agape love, is a choice. So, God gave us free will, that we can love Him, if we choose. That also means we can, and will, stray. So, making a new couple would only have delayed things a bit.

Adam and Eve, though, didn't escape all punishment. They wee removed from the Garden, forbidden to ever return, and forces to struggle to survive in a world now tainted by their sin. That's a huge punishment. Plus, God gave them a chance to repent.

Hope this helps.