Why didn't God smite Adam & Eve?

reply to post by toktaylor

Thank you for the discussion.

TheRedneck

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well put that man.I stopped going to church a few years back, Just cut out the 'middle man' completely and it changed my life. No one telling me who to love or hate, just me talking to the big fella (or lass) without the need of all that pomp and ceremony, it has bought me closer and my faith is stronger.

Originally posted by windsorblue
Sorry if these question's cause any offence, that is not my intention, they are question's that have beleaguered my little mind since childhood (I did ask the questions in the Catholic school I attended, but being called a 'wicked boy' and getting my backside leathered with a wooden ruler was not really the answer I was hoping for) so here goes:

Q) Why didn’t God smite Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit? In the Old Testament God is not too shy in smiting and a slaying all those who have offended him. Would it have not been a better idea to restart from the beginning with the destruction of these two, create a new couple who would adhere to his rules and negate humanity being cast out of Eden?

Is there any serious theological answers to these please? (this is my first thread, please be gentle)

I think a question that you will have once you get past this one is "why did their god lie to them about the tree?". Not only were they not smote but they didn't even die like their god said and furthermore, what the serpent fella told them was actually right. They actually did gain the knowledge just as promised by the serpent.

Your question is good because it's not one I thought of, even after pondering the rest of it. It's strange enough that he didn't just render the flesh of their skin and send them to some pit of gnashing teeth or what not but he chose not to do that even after he expressed his fear of them and their new power!

I think your question just cements my opinion that the godling in the Garden of Eden was not the same god that created the Earth, created people, parted waters, and laid out impressive models for genocide that would be used by fans such as Hitler for thousands of years.

No... one of those gods was pretty much omnipotent and the other was wandering around the garden, fearful, looking for Adam and Eve. One is Dr. Manhattan from The Watchers and the other is a supporting character who has his lab experiment escape and simply acts as a plot vehicle.

reply to post by Cuervo


I actually forgot about the part were God told them they would die if they ate the fruit (unless they were intended to be immortal and death was part of the punishment ) and what the serpent told them turned out to be the truth, but what if they would have eaten from the tree of life, I wonder what would have happened then???

reply to post by windsorblue


The answer is here: Bow to Adam There is a greater purpose and God can only give. God does not take.

Rumi the Sufi

THE BOW TO ADAM

"What is living death? To forget the one who teaches you, which is often the wisdom that comes in suffering and difficulties.

The more of that you have, the more soul (ONE SOUL).

In what way are we above the animals? With that same consciousness that builds in us then, in humbling circumstances.

There is a hierarchy; Human over animal, angel over human, with the true human being's soul over those. Why else would angels be commanded to bow to Adam?

The soul of all things follows the one-pointedness of a true human being as thread follows needle."

Originally posted by windsorblue, but what if they would have eaten from the tree of life, I wonder what would have happened then???

I maintain that they DID eat from the tree of life, that they were eating it continuously until they were expelled, and that the purpose of the expulsion was not to prevent them eating from it, but to prevent them continuing to eat from it.
(I'm not assuming that the story is literal, but I think this was how the writer of Genesis wanted the story to be understood).
I wrote a thread on the subject;Did they eat from the tree of life?

reply to post by Cuervo


They did die, they lost there immortality and became mundane entity's another reason they could not stay.
It was Mary whom was sent from god free of sin to bear the son of god or god incarnate Jesus whom through Jesus taking our place ceremonially on the tree and dying on our behalf before rising again whom lifted that curse from us, he was in a house with many people and someone said your mother is outside, he then said you are all my mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, so he took there place, while he was on the cross he looked to mary whom was weeping and said
Jesus saw his own mother, and the disciple standing near whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold your son". Then he said to the disciple, "Behold your mother". And from that hour, he took his mother into his family

So he made Mary our mother (which she is through the sacrament as when you take it into yourself you give yourself into Jesus) and she was without sin being the only vessel that god would use to send his word into the world, she replaces Eve for us and we are now her children through Jesus her son (Though we still have to struggle with our inherent wayward nature) and he took our place to dispose of our curse and death, but it is not a matter of going back to the garden and we had to grow up anyway, now when our trial is done (which it must be) we have to leave the earthly dust behind, in the resurrection you receive a new body a celestial or heavenly body like the angels, it is like a spirit but so much more, Dust to dust and ashes to ashes, what is of the earth must go back to the earth and what is of god must go back to god.

Matthew 22:23-33 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?” 29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Luke 20:27-40 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30 The second 31 and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32 Finally, the woman died too. 33 Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” 34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in that age and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels.66 They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37 But in the account of the bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” 39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!” 40 And no one dared to ask him any more questions.

Mark 12:18-27 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 19 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and have children for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21 The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22 In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23 At the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?” 24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

Hope this helps.

reply to post by LABTECH767


"They did die, they lost there immortality"...however (key point), they will be restored said immortatlity (by god) so as to BURN in EVERLASTING FIRE FOREVER and forever, and forever (and did i say forever)....This makes more sense rather than restarting humanity at the beginning (if it was discovered to be flawed).
Wait a minute..was'nt humanity rebooted with NOAH and the flood???...i guess that story is for another discussion...

reply to post by DISRAELI


Well written thread I enjoyed reading it. I am not going to question your assumptions because you may be right and whom am I to disagree. But I would like to address another point regarding the tree of life and that is the serpent. Why was he allowed to be in the garden in the first place? what was he doing there ?and why didn't God know what he was up to (even though the serpent did tell Adam & Eve the truth). A few plot holes to be filled in regarding that matter.

reply to post by toktaylor


ancienthistory.about.com... [/url]

Always believed myself that the big fella didn't have a hand in that one, most of the worlds religions have the flood tales (hope the link above works) and I put it down to a natural disaster or rising of the Earths oceans after the last Ice age.

reply to post by toktaylor


Well he has got to dry them off after all.

No seriously for me the bible begins at Abraham and that is the point at which my religion comes into the world, for instance I do not believe adam and eve if they were ever real were the only humans on earth but they may have had some element to there beings that made them more than the dust of the earth so to speak.
As for the flood of Noah I never really believed it but then I had a very strong vision that left me shaken as I was seeing through what I can only describe as dead eye's and say a boat unlike the traditional biblical image and more like the boat at little Ararat if you know what that is, it was white with a house on top and sloped roofed with two black windows and a door mid beam, the sky was steel grey and it was raining, my perspective was from the water surface and the boat was big but not as big as a liner more like coastguard cutter or slightly larger.

All I can say is you take these things by faith or not at all but there was some unusual polonium isotope decay patterns pointed out by some creationist scientists recently.

reply to post by LABTECH767


I think you may have responded to my post by accident. I don't see how it related to what I was saying and I did read your whole post. The only thing that I gathered out of that seemed to cement my point:

If the curse was to lose immortality (which I can't find anywhere in the bible that said they were ever immortal) and that Jesus removed that curse... why aren't we all immortal?

Originally posted by windsorblue
reply to post by Cuervo

 

I actually forgot about the part were God told them they would die if they ate the fruit (unless they were intended to be immortal and death was part of the punishment ) and what the serpent told them turned out to be the truth, but what if they would have eaten from the tree of life, I wonder what would have happened then???

That's a great question and here's why: When a Christian and I are discussing Genesis, I might bring up the whole part about Adam's god lying about the trees and the serpent telling the truth and that Christian will almost always come back with "But the tree did kill them because they were immortal before that!". But then... why was there a tree of life that their god was afraid of them eating if they were already immortal?!

It's just an uncomfortable topic because, if you are to take Genesis literally, a Christian would have to admit that the god in the garden was lying and that the serpent was not. They were never immortal and the tree of knowledge did not kill them. In fact, the only bad things to come of it was what their god chose to do to them as punishment. All the tree did was make them awesome.

People compare it to the child and the hot stove but that's a bad analogy. It's incorrect because the tree was not harmful in and of itself. So a more correct analogy would be telling a kid that they can't read their ABC book. The child reads it and the parent curses that child and every descendant that child will ever ever ever have.

I don't believe that whole pantheon anyway but, if I did, I'd totally be on the serpent's side. He's not the one who screwed my entire species nor lied to me about it.

My thought on my previous post was of a

Type 7

This would be a God or a deity, able to create universes at will, using them as an energy source, and a large one at that. Type 7 though is well beyond the stage of understanding that humans can incur beyond a technological singularity.

The above skills are reliant on the energy produced by the civilisation but there could be other ways of classifying steps in our evolution into the universe. Information available to the civilisation could be used and has been suggested by Ray Kurzwell.

I used the Oa folks because most have heard of them (the comics and green lantern movie) A type 7 civilization that maybe was one of the first to get going might have been like us 9 billion years ago and then advanced to immortal god like beings currently. You never know! Its a old and big universe.

Here is a link to 1 through 7 type civilizations www.weirdwarp.com...

reply to post by Cuervo


Oh you do not know, a book can be changed and the truth concealed and buried in lies, there are powers here that will fall but revel in there moment, the flesh was the curse for it is of the earth, the casting from eden was like being lowered dimensionally and the soul was bound to the flesh but Christ is the resurrection, he will give a new body a celestial body like the angels/immortals/gods.

I see you use a druid inspired avatar, would you like to know about my blood bonding to the way of knowing the oak and how I felt my tree die when someone cut her down, the scar on my right hand and the way I used to be able to get her acorns to sprout whenever I would plant them, lets not get into that, the true way is the way of the man on the tree whom defeated death as all other ways end in death and as for immortality it is not of this body as your soul would be stunted for ever.

Whom do you think the greatest druid of all is, who healed a blind man so he saw too much and that man saw people as trees walking only for the carpenter to then take back a little of that sight so he saw as you and I.
The last place the druid religion survived was in Eira and Caledonia but those Druid whom learned of Christ saw something the new agers are blind to so turned to him as even there groves fell in time but he is forever and they knew him and there error, the story's of Patris and his arguments with the druids are more real than you know, though I for one am certain they were more debate than fireworks.

reply to post by RUFFREADY


Quite possible as some quantumne (and that is the correct spelling) scientists believe it may be possible to create a bubble universe now if we can create the correct conditions but the longevity of that universe in reference to our own time span would seem miniscule yet within it's own contuum time would be sufficient.

Imagine a large or troubled enough psyche that could reach beyond the borders of time and space into the underlying reality of superspace and in it's derangement or brilliance collide it's reality like one person with the reality of another in another universe so binding the two energy's and creating a blend that could give rise to another, science, belief and plain madness often converge on the same point of reference.

Q) Why didn’t God smite Adam and Eve for eating the forbidden fruit?

reply to post by windsorblue


A) He did. Book of Jubilees, Ch 4

29 And at the close of the nineteenth jubilee, in the seventh week in the sixth year [930 A.M.] thereof, Adam died, and all his sons buried him in the land of his creation, and he was the first to be buried in the earth.
30 And he lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: 'On the day that you eat thereof you shall die.' For this reason he did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

reply to post by LABTECH767


Very interesting! I have to say though we should start with creating planets first then solar systems just to get the hang of it, before a whole universe

When I read your above post I thought of this straight away..(below)

Originally posted by LABTECH767
Matthew 22:23-33 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him.

Look will you stop using the New Testament. Christ said that he didn't come to do away with the law. Therefore the Old Testament holds as much authority as the New.