Judge allows Yoga in Public schools, rejects Church-State Fight

Originally posted by intrepid
Athletes and yoga:

Flexibility is the key that far too many people are missing, and athletes, in particular, can benefit from becoming more flexible and increasing their range of motion. It can add to the improvement of the athlete's game and will markedly decrease the risk of injury.

ca.sports.yahoo.com...

It's a phenomenal exercise regimen that many athletes use to cut down on injuries. Why? It works.

But we are talking about what consenting adults do and what children are made to do, off topic and has nothing to do with anything here really as we are not talking about if yoga is effective or not.
Roids seem to help athletes more than anything these days but we are not talking about allowing those in school either. But the athlete thing is a funny thing to bring up, nearly all of the post victory speeches given at sporting events these days thank god and or jesus. So worshiping them must be good for you too right?

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Saying yoga is religious is like saying drinking wine and eating bread is religious.

Sure it -can- be, but if you aren't preaching a doctrine, drinking wine and doing yoga is merely an activity that many atheists do completely divorced from any Gods.

Saying stretching is religious is like saying eating bread and wine is religious.

Saying Yoga is relgious (mind of matter dicipline) is like saying Communion is religious (mind of matter by faith).

The difference is what occurs in the mind of the practicianer.

Apples to apples.

God Bless,

edit on 2-7-2013 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)

I see what you are saying but its off and i will tell you why
Stretching is not religious, but they are not just stretching. They are calling it yoga and they are practicing yoga.Saying yoga is religious is like saying communion is religious but not the same as eating bread and wine and calling it religious.
The argument would be more parallel if kids were doing the Communion, calling it communion and doing the whole communion thing just taking the catholic speech out of it then claiming its not a religious thing.

edit on 2-7-2013 by Superhans because: (no reason given)

Correct. That was what I was saying.

Yoga is religious, in the same manner that communion is

My suggestion was to create a simple "deep breathing stretching and exercise program" NOT call it Yoga, but recieve the physical benefit without any mind alterations of thought.

Originally posted by undo
i like this and don't find it interfers with my christianity at all.

lol fail point, i see what you were tying to do but...

These original sound frequencies were apparently used in Ancient Gregorian Chants, such as the great hymn to St. John the Baptist, along with others that church authorities say were lost centuries ago.

According to your video the chrsitians have been using this for a while now

Originally posted by intrepid
See my post above before it's "Nuff said."

It's like Chinese food. We love OUR Chinese food but few would eat REAL Chinese food.

So where would you draw the line of what is and is not allowed in schools? Here are a few options:

Visualization
Meditation
Yoga
Prayer
Forgiveness-& Compassion Training
Reading from ancient books
Chakra-Balancing
Reiki
Chanting
Singing
Drawing Mandalas

etc...

I never understood the controversy over yoga. To be honest yoga is great with stretching your whole body. But it doesn't have to religious or some new age moment. I took a class in college and to be honest it's better than what I did in grade school. "Put your leg over your other leg and then touch your toes!" No! That doesn't work and it makes your body feel worse. Yoga allows me to stretch every part and I feel like I can take on the world exercising.

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Saying yoga is religious is like saying drinking wine and eating bread is religious.

Sure it -can- be, but if you aren't preaching a doctrine, drinking wine and doing yoga is merely an activity that many atheists do completely divorced from any Gods.

Saying stretching is religious is like saying eating bread and wine is religious.

Saying Yoga is relgious (mind of matter dicipline) is like saying Communion is religious (mind of matter by faith).

Apples to apples.

God Bless,

Nah, what I call yoga -is- yoga, because it is a definition that is generally accepted in my society. What I call yoga may not be what you call -yoga-, but guess what, you are using what is called the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

You can call whatever you like whatever you like, it matters not to me.

But ask a Yogi if Yoga is religious and they will say it is.

I do not care what your definition of anything is, but the source of the knowledge and the source of the education stemming from that knowledge defines itself as religious regardless of what you think of it as, or how inept the teachers are in the USA covering the disemination of the knowledge to their students.

Ask a Scot if he is a Scot and he will answer you (you do not have to believe him), ask a Yogi if he is religious and he will answer you. Label his answer however you choose, and place his response in whatever bucket you've created in your own mind to label someone else's religion as non-religious.

I take the Yoga practitioner's word as to why he practices, rather than the self imposed definition created by a poster on ATS that contradicts the source of the faith. If someone is practicing Yoga, it must be both body and mind, the two cannot be disassociated with one another by Yoga's own self definition.

Call an apple an orange all you want, even if more people around you call it an orange and agree with your position, it is still an apple.

God Bless,

You don't actually seem to understand the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. You say you take the yoga practitioner's word as to why he practices over a self imposed definition created by an ATS poster, but that's the entire point.

I am an atheistic yoga practitioner, however to you, I am wrong because your definition of yoga doesn't allow for that.

It's like the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Someone says, "All Scotsman love haggis!", to which the reply is, "My father is a Scot and he doesn't love haggis..", and then the original declaration is changed to, "All TRUE Scotsman love haggis!"

reply to post by ElohimJD


That makes sense but like i was saying earlier. We have a childhood obesity problem, PE time would be better spent doing something a little more physical. I really think this is just teachers wanting to get paid to do yoga. Our kids are also falling behind in math, would it make sense to take time out of the math class to do some secularized version of Hebrew numerology? It wouldn't hurt but it is just wasting time to have it in the school at all.

reply to post by Superhans


Seems to me like you want to push the religious aspect when it's been shown that in the west that yoga is an exercise regimen. I provided links. Care to provide something that purports that yoga is producing any significant religious foothold because of this workout? As an agnostic I tire of these religious/atheist arguments.

reply to post by Skyfloating


lol, the line gets drawn at the old testament. Anything related to that is ebil and a violation of the first amendment! eebil!

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by intrepid
See my post above before it's "Nuff said."

It's like Chinese food. We love OUR Chinese food but few would eat REAL Chinese food.

So where would you draw the line of what is and is not allowed in schools? Here are a few options:

Obfuscation Sky. Nope. Not playing that game. That's like saying gay marriage is wrong because it could lead to pedophiles getting rights. That "slippery slope" doesn't apply. In the west yoga is exercise, not religion.

Originally posted by intrepid
Seems to me like you want to push the religious aspect when it's been shown that in the west that yoga is an exercise regimen. I provided links. Care to provide something that purports that yoga is producing any significant religious foothold because of this workout? As an agnostic I tire of these religious/atheist arguments.

Children are easier to influence than adults. If you were taught Yoga as a child, you'd look up where it comes from, wouldnt you? Hatha Yoga is the first step of Yoga. The second step is meditative Yoga. The third step is spiritual Yoga.

If Christians knew that a Cosmic Serpent is involved somewhere along the way, they'd go ballistic.

reply to post by Superhans


it's relaxing music to me. some music is relaxing, some is not.
like this music is not relaxing (interesting cello work though!)


this is unique


and this, this is upbeat!



why's everything have to be one flavor?

I would agree that Yoga does not have to have a religious connotation attached. Seems silly to me. The school could just call it something different if it's going to anger people otherwise... like "Yoga inspired workout class?" lol

Originally posted by intrepid

Obfuscation Sky. Nope. Not playing that game. That's like saying gay marriage is wrong because it could lead to pedophiles getting rights. That "slippery slope" doesn't apply. In the west yoga is exercise, not religion.

I somewhat agree with your Kung Fu and Chinese Food analogy. But Yoga is not YET that westernized. The way things are going right now it probably will be in a few decades though.

But as of now, Muslims and Christians do have a point. What do you do with Muslim and Christian students who dont want to attend Yoga classes at school?

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Children are easier to influence than adults. If you were taught Yoga as a child, you'd look up where it comes from, wouldnt you?

Are you familiar with kids? They'd finish the class and be thankful they don't have to do it again until tomorrow.

Hatha Yoga is the first step of Yoga. The second step is meditative Yoga. The third step is spiritual Yoga.

If Christians knew that a Cosmic Serpent is involved somewhere along the way, they'd go ballistic.

Sounds adult to me.

reply to post by intrepid


So what do we do with the...

Muslim
Jewish
Christian

kids in school? Do they have to practice something that, in their Religions, is perceived differently than you personally perceive it?

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Superhans

 

Seems to me like you want to push the religious aspect when it's been shown that in the west that yoga is an exercise regimen. I provided links. Care to provide something that purports that yoga is producing any significant religious foothold because of this workout? As an agnostic I tire of these religious/atheist arguments.

I just see it as a huge double standard. Considering anything even remotely connected to Christianity in or near a school triggers rage from the militant crowd. Like stated earlier, if the school had sanctioned "not prayer" time where students got in the prayer position and talked out loud to nobody about all the things they want, militant atheist types would be having strokes over it.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by intrepid

 

So what do we do with the...

Muslim
Jewish
Christian

kids in school? Do they have to practice something that, in their Religions, is perceived differently than you personally perceive it?

You're preaching to the choir here. I was raised JW. IMO have the curriculum set and if they have a problem then they can be excused. I think that you'll find the "opt out" rate isn't that high. Most parents are aware that physical education is as important as teaching knowledge.

I love yoga, but it is a spiritual practice that does not belong in the public school. It should not be forced as part of a curriculum, manipulated as being for health benefits only. It is deeply rooted in a spiritual belief. If we cannot allow Christian or other religious prayers in school, then it's not fair to teach Yoga either.

If it was up to me, there would be yoga, tai chi, and meditation taught, not as the main course material, but substituting with full credit for the main PE, and lets see how popular it would be!!!!!

And nothing to do with any set or established religion.

That is what I think all schools should be like.

Also, all the history and science would be presented as "controlled information" and "theories" with alternative and conspiracies, highly discussed!