Judge allows Yoga in Public schools, rejects Church-State Fight

reply to post by Skyfloating


Because the modern Yoga doesn't have any religious practice.

If you were in India, that would be a different story... but i think even India has these "American Yoga" in India.

This is just such a silly double standard. If the Christians wanted to have baptisms at school but called them "water happys" and claimed that it was a secular way of "cleansing bad energy and cleaning the skin" and in no way was religious, people would throw a fit.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)

A good re-phrasing for Religionophobes.

Well when being practiced in the secular environment of a hospital, these semantics are sometimes necessary. No one is forced into taking the course.

Well this is an elementary school if you read the article we are talking about and school kids don't really get a choice in the classes they attend at that age. So while the parents have to opt their kids out (assuming they know about it) they are actually being made to attend this class.

i homeschooled my kids in christian education and
put them in karate classes for phys ed. hehe
the oldest is now a 3rd degree black belt and a sensei and can quote several chapters of the book of proverbs.
lol

Originally posted by undo
i homeschooled my kids in christian education and
put them in karate classes for phys ed. hehe
the oldest is now a 3rd degree black belt and a sensei and can quote several chapters of the book of proverbs.
lol

Good for you, i know home schooling is not easy. But...what does this have to do with the price of rice in china?

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by intrepid
What about Kung Fu?

Good point. Kung Fu is also interwined with Religion, but much less than Yoga...so it can MUCH more easily be sold as a secular practice.

I do have issues with selling Yoga as a secular practice that "has nothing to do with Religion" though.

The point I was making is that things change. Kung Fu was highly religious(probably still is in some parts of Asia). Is that not what Buddhist monks practiced? KF has been popular here for about 40 years but I don't see any temples being erected. The same with yoga. Raquel Welsh has been doing yoga for decades(God bless her ) and I'm sure she's still a Catholic.

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by undo
i homeschooled my kids in christian education and
put them in karate classes for phys ed. hehe
the oldest is now a 3rd degree black belt and a sensei and can quote several chapters of the book of proverbs.
lol

Good for you, i know home schooling is not easy. But...what does this have to do with the price of rice in china?

it shows how american society works fine, as long as people don't freak the heck out because someone is different than them. .

reply to post by intrepid


Didn't you hear?

This is an attack on christianity. Satan is in control of the government and we are in the end of days.

/sarcasm

You shouldn't expect rationality and reason from irrational and unreasonable people. In fact, the more you make them talk the worse you make ATS look.

reply to post by undo

i homeschooled my kids in christian education...

There is christian education? what is that? creationism? universe revolves around earth?..Is there even science involved in the curriculum!?



I think people are so against Yoga because it didn't come from their religion.

i support the idea of secular education and i also support the idea of private education. this primarily because secular education attempts (and sometimes fails) to be neutral and as a result, just asks people to leave their private belief systems at home. the failure only comes in as regards the mainstream view of ancient history and dogmatic, nearly religious fervor regarding science, but even then, i support the secular science because we can use all the viewpoints we can get. we're are an information starved species. so many gaps and holes, and what ifs. in that regard, secular sciences really work hard at filling in the holes. may not always agree with the holes, but they have done some amazing work.

reply to post by luciddream


Im a non militant logical atheist (not a fundie). Im against it because i see it as a huge double standard.

reply to post by Superhans

If the Christians wanted to have baptisms at school but called them "water happys" and claimed that it was a secular way of "cleansing bad energy and cleaning the skin" and in no way was religious, people would throw a fit.

yes, because Baptism is not mentioned in any of the Christian literature right? , care to find any information on Yoga relating to a specific Hindu god or it is a must to reach god(that is not man's version)?

While we are at it lets compare and see how Airplane and squids are the same.

reply to post by Superhans


Its sad, cause normally Atheist learn about other religion before becoming an atheist, sadly you just learned one and trying to impose your views on what you think other practices are.

Not very Atheist like.

As an Atheist, Yoga has religious part, but what we practice in west is not religious. care to disagree?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by undo

 

i homeschooled my kids in christian education...

There is christian education? what is that? creationism? universe revolves around earth?..Is there even science involved in the curriculum!?



I think people are so against Yoga because it didn't come from their religion.

yes it is creationism, no it doesn't teach the universe revolves around the earth. that was the vatican, circa 1000 years ago.

yes there's science in the curriculum. biology, genetics, physics, chemistry, and they discuss both sides of the spectrum as regards evolution. it's actually an academic education, meaning it's a bit more indepth and hard core when it comes to the amount of information it teaches. it also provides classes in greek and other ancient biblical languages. not the easiest education in the world.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

Calmness of mind is now religion? clarity is religion?

There is no "Mind" Yoga, all the yoga that is practiced in the west is purely physical , but all exercise affect the mind ultimately, just like going to gym or smiling and being happy makes you feel good.

Im not sure how calming the mind, looking for mental clarity or being stress free is religious!

there is no god mentioned in Yoga or any mantra. Thats the main reason when whoever brought Yoga to the west watered it down so all the mantra and religious aspects are removed. i highly doubt most Yoga instructors have any clue on the mantras and tradition of real yoga.

I agree with you in that most western Yoga instructors do not teach the mental dicipline aspects of the craft, however if they did it would be religious, in my opinion.

The mind's mastery over self is a foundational aspect of Yoga, it is a faith to think you are even capible of doing so in this manner, and in some other religions it is viewed as counter-productive to their way of thinking. This does not even take into account the chakras, and engergy faith found in Yoga if taught in the Eastern method.

Lining up chakras, mantra projection etc. are "faiths" Yoga practicianers believe occur when they undergo the physical craft.

It is not in me to judge right or wrong, or to say one is better or worse, but they are different, and when you are learning the mental dicipline of Yoga, you are generating faith in its effectivness as a tool of mind control over self, which is not the role of the public school in the USA currently, in my opinion.

If the individual mind experiences peace during these physical actions then more power to that mind, and it might peak a curiousity in the Eastern religions; but to teach it that way would be over stepping the state's role in this process by exposing religious diciplines into standard curriculum.

I will counter your post by saying what is wrong with calling it "deep breathing stretches and exercises for strength conditioning", and than ensuring no faith based religious phenomenon is taught in schools (mind over matter, chakra alignment, meditation ect.)?

Why must it be called Yoga at all, if no eastern diciplines are involved in its active application?

God Bless,

Originally posted by Skyfloating

At first sight this looked like good news to me. I practice Yoga and I believe that it can be very, very, very beneficial to school-children for both mental and physical strength.

I disagree, I have tried yoga as well. Without the hindu philosophy that goes along with it you might as well go do any other sport. The Church should really make up their own yoga and teach that. Now you will get confused people because Christianity isn't Hinduism and some points need to be elaborated or they'll just be misunderstood.

reply to post by Skyfloating


A pink elephant is still an elephant... I did state that if so contextualized and dressed it could be part of a religion, notice that when I add "pink" to the description I change or categorize the special type of elephant.

(A+B =/= B, if A not equal to 0)

What was your point ?

Saying yoga is religious is like saying drinking wine and eating bread is religious.

Sure it -can- be, but if you aren't preaching a doctrine, drinking wine and doing yoga is merely an activity that many atheists do completely divorced from any Gods.

Originally posted by garret
why dont they just call it pilates and stop all the arguing

Good idea actually. "Kids, lets do some Pilates today". Or "Kids, lets do some stretching today". Not sure why they need to call it Yoga.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee
Saying yoga is religious is like saying drinking wine and eating bread is religious.

Sure it -can- be, but if you aren't preaching a doctrine, drinking wine and doing yoga is merely an activity that many atheists do completely divorced from any Gods.

Yes. And many other use it for physical and emotional strength.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Superhans

 

Its sad, cause normally Atheist learn about other religion before becoming an atheist, sadly you just learned one and trying to impose your views on what you think other practices are.

Learned one what? And what am i trying to impose on anyone, specifically what the hell are you talking about? It sounds like you are just another that gets thrown off by these little buzzwords. I said atheist so that obviously triggered something here.

yes, because Baptism is not mentioned in any of the Christian literature right? , care to find any information on Yoga relating to a specific Hindu god or it is a must to reach god(that is not man's version)?

Like i said and you left out because of your religious topic inspired rage blinders... I said we would not call it baptism we would call it "water happys" and would remove all religious parts so it was "secular". Im not sure what you are asking, you want me to find you something about yoga relating to a hindu diety?As far as it being a must to reach god you are conflating issues. I just put forth the idea of taking a different religious practice and stripping it of the religious part to make it "secular", you just seem to have gotten hung up on that its christian and you can't seem to let that go. Take the rage blinders off.