Horse Slaughterhouse Approved by USDA to Produce Meat for Human Consumption

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Yes I posted that horses have long been work animals and food. What does that have to do with abusing them? Just because they are work animals or food does not mean they are abused.

You have no idea how to treat an animal if you think work animals are normally abused. A work horse pulls things and is sheltered and fed well. A plow horse is not abused because it is what helped you plant food. Without the work horse you are unable to preform work. Why on earth would you abuse it? Since when are they working them to death? A few might have done that, but you have no idea how the majority used or treated their work animals.

It is actually laughable how you completely put things into others posts yet ignore questions asked by the same posters.

I ask again. Why is it immoral to eat horse flesh? What do you think of eating beef knowing that cattle have best friends and that they are stressed when that friend is not around? What makes eating horse more immoral than eating other animals? Are there other animals that are immoral to eat?


Just because an animal is a work animal does not mean it is being abused. Your logic on the ideas of work animals is flawed. Many work animals are treated very well, just as most farmers treat their farm raised animals that are used for food well. Without the animals being in good shape and good health they cannot get their money or food.

Care to answer my questions and stop saying I am posting things I am not?


Since you have a thing against using horses for work and food. How do you feel about racing them? What about the thing where they make the gorses jump stuff all the time? What about the horse shows and rodeos?

Also just to make sure you do not miss it again.
Why is it immoral to eat horse flesh? What do you think of eating beef knowing that cattle have best friends and that they are stressed when that friend is not around? What makes eating horse more immoral than eating other animals? Are there other animals that are immoral to eat?

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
...
Also just to make sure you do not miss it again.
Why is it immoral to eat horse flesh? What do you think of eating beef knowing that cattle have best friends and that they are stressed when that friend is not around? What makes eating horse more immoral than eating other animals? Are there other animals that are immoral to eat?

Raist

I just posted my arguments again... Why is it that I have to keep repeating myself to some members?...

You can't re-write history as you see fit... Part of the "history of horses being seen and used only as work animals and food" has INCLUDED the FACT that they were abused constantly and were worked to death...

Again, you NOW want to claim that "only abusing horses is wrong/immoral", what gives?... If you are going to use "HISTORY" as an excuse, you can't delete what you want from "HISTORY" as a reason...

You mentioned/implied that abusing horses is wrong/immoral, yet according to "HISTORY" this was not seen as wrong/immoral by most people...

What makes "abuse" any less immoral than "using horses as a meat source"?... YOU?...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I have said all along that abuse is wrong. Prove that all work animals are/were abused since you made the claim.

I have no problem with horses being used as a food source as long as they are not abused. Go back and check my first posts on this thread. Not once have I said abuse was right. Prove that I said such. Stop saying I am posting things I am not. I have no problem with a horse being used as a work animal as long as they are not abused. Do you no think the horses used by police or to pull carts are not work animals? What about all the rodeos, horse racing/jumping, and horse shows? You think they are not abused?

Why can you not answer my questions? Why is eating horse immoral? What about eating cows, they have best friends and are stressed when they are not around them. Why is eating cows moral when eating horse is not? Are there other animals that are immoral to eat? Are there any animals that are more immoral to eat than others?

Focus on the topic and please stop trying to say I am saying something I am not. My posts are clear and to the point, if you need to take time to read them and understand them take your time, but please stop claiming I am saying things I am not.

Also answer my questions. It would be nice to have a real discussion and not being side tracked by your ramblings of pure fallacy.

Edit to add: Prove that all work animals abused. You are making it seem as if all are and have been abused.

Raist

Cannibalism is bad not because its inhumane, but because it will cause prion in the brain and you literally will go crazy and die soon if it becomes a sustained habit. that is why cannibalism is bad. if such incidents did not occur, cannibalism would simply be taboo and still rather horrific IMO. Now, if a person decided to cut out his own liver and he was physically healthy, dare I go there? hehe better not.

Now if the price of my 20pc chicken nuggets or mcdouble is kept low because the methods to keep that price low require uneducated bored country folk to be bird stompers and cow abusers, by golly that's just sad and all. But if the price has to go up 10% to be 100% sure there will never be abuse, I will go ahead and take the cheaper abused animals to eat

reply to post by Staroth


Will Reuters be a credible source for thee...

U.S. approves a horse slaughterhouse, sees two more plants

www.reuters.com...

reply to post by Raist


I've been following your argument Raist, and I don't think you're going to get an honest answer, because your opposition is to heavily affected by EMOTION. There is nothing dispassionate, therefore nothing logical, in their argument.

I'll interject a couple of questions that also won't be logically answered. Do the Amish abuse their work animals? Many small farmers down south still use horses, and mules, as work animals. Abused? Speaking of mules. They are a genetic blend between donkeys (completely different species), and horses. Would mules be ok to use as a food source?

To slide a bit to the side of the OP, yet going in the direction that the thread has taken, how about police dogs? Abused? Search and rescue dogs? Police horses. They're work animals. Abused? Before the internal combustion engine, fire companies used horses to pull water pump wagons. Were they worked to death?

Anyway, good luck to you causing a pinpoint of understanding with this one.

What happened to respect, we have more respect for historic homes. Why don't we all at least agree it is all ...again...about greed and money.
The BLM gets a lot of money for wild mustang range for cattle. People make HUGE sums even now off the dead animals.

I was raised in the back of now where in the Nevada desert, my Father by trade was a wild horse breaker.he was a true western type cowboy like you see in the movies. These spirited and beautiful animals were becoming scarce for their round-ups even in the 60's.

"Congress finds and declares that wild free-roaming horses and burros are living symbols of the historic and pioneer spirit of the West; that they contribute to the diversity of lifeforms within the nation and enrich the lives of the American people." -- December 15, 1971 Congressional Declaration).

The Wild Free-Roaming Horses and Burros Act of 1971 (Public Law 92-195) This is the law that was enacted in 1971 which specifically says "That Congress finds and declares that wild free-roaming horses and burros are living symbols of the historic and pioneer spirit of the West; that they contribute to the diversity of life forms within the Nation and enrich the lives of the American people; and that these horses and burros are fast disappearing from the American scene."

reply to post by 2ndthought


I agree it is pointless to try and discuss something with an emotional wreck. I gave it a go and realize that no matter what proof I bring to the table the other will only cast it aside with falsehoods and subject change. Not one moment will be put into trying to hold a ration al discussion.


I also agree with the fact that not all if many at all work animals are abused. I personally believe you are likely to find more abuse within rodeos, racing/jumping (still no idea what they really call that), and horse shows. Farmers need their animals to be in prime health in order to do the work they need or to be worth any thing at the market. They cannot abuse their animals as it will cost them money and labor.

As for eating donkeys and even burrows, if they land on my plate I am not going to complain. Unless that is if they taste weird or are really chewy.

Raist

Shipped back to the US as "meat filler?" I hope that's not true.


I had a hard enough time eating chicken last night after watching that psychic parrot video.


To the OP-- regarding hypocrisy over the outrage people feel about dogs being eaten-- there is a little bit of a difference there. Dogs are cuter, for one. And sure, maybe that's a weird reason to justify the death of one type of animal (cows, chickens, whatever...) but not allow the death of others.... however, I would think as a vegetarian (with moral grounds) you would take any agreement you could get over any animals being "wrong" to eat.


That said, I don't find the horse thing all that shocking. Mainly because I know greedy jerks will do anything for profit.

That, and the fact that beef / poultry / fish are far from the only animals used as regular meat sources around the world. And I'm not just talking about dog markets in vietnam or wherever....


I actually encountered a website not too long ago, which was selling mail order dog and cat meat. "Kitty beef" they called it. As a cat lover, I'll admit I was a bit horrified. At first I wondered if it was someone's idea of a sick joke-- but apparently their FAQ page even addresses this issue. You can probably find the site with "kitty beef" as a search term.

reply to post by DYepes


The prion issue only becomes a problem when people start eating the brain matter. That is what caused the problem with mad cow disease. We were chopping up all the left over bits (including brain matter) of cows and mixing it with grains to produce a food with more protein for the cattle.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

The defective protein can be transmitted by contaminated harvested human brain products

The only reason it was brought up is because some posters on here are way to emotional on the subject of eating horse and they cannot differentiate between eating horse and eating human flesh. It was brought up as an argument that if we allow eating horse we should allow eating human flesh because people should eat what they want.

It was pointed out that cannibalism in the U.S. is not illegal in the sense, however murder is. The only way one could conceivably eat human flesh in the U.S. is if it were donated to them by the person whose flesh it is. I partly assume that one could make such a clause in their last will and testament though I admit that that is nothing more than assumption.


As for keeping prices down by abusing animals I really hope that was sarcasm on your point (it does not always convey well over the internets). The abuse of any animal is repugnant and should not be tolerated. That being said, if you happen to load my plate up with horse or goat, donkey or cow, I will not complain. I love meat so long as it is not chewy or weird tasting.

Raist

reply to post by iwilliam


Horse, cow, chicken, or dog does not matter to me. At this point I have no desire to eat my family pets, but if times called for such measures I would do so without reservation. They would die of starvation in such times as well as myself. At least in their death they would be prolonging my life.

That said I find it very hypocritical that people will not eat certain animals just because of them being cute or what ever. When we tie our emotions to our stomachs we are sure to die. This is even more evident as we are discovering that cows have best friends.

www.guardian.co.uk...

According to new research by scientists at Northampton University, cows have "best friends" and get stressed when separated.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

'When heifers have their preferred partner with them, their stress levels in terms of their heart rates are reduced compared with if they were with a random individual,' Ms McLennan said.

That puts a whole new light on the burger most will be eating this tomorrow. Will it affect my eating? Not a chance. I will look at my food sources as I always have. Their death means my life. I respect the fact that their life helped to sustain my life. I respect that without them I could not move forward to see the next day and enjoy my life.

I look at life like this. Animals (which is what horses are and what this thread is about despite some posters trying to change that) are meant to be eaten. So are plants (those that are not toxic). Each and every living thing should be taken care of and respected for the life that it will give so that another can continue. I am not for abusing animals or causing slow deaths. I do understand it happens though and I try to get as many to understand this needs to be changed. Just because it is a food source does not mean it should be disregarded and seen as something that is not alive. The only way we can be considered human is to look at everything with respect and understand that animals do feel pain and even have feelings. If we lose that we lose what it is to be human and then we are no better than a food source to be cast aside.

Raist

reply to post by Raist

I agree it is pointless to try and discuss something with an emotional wreck.

Weak, if you can't win an argument make personal attacks, which are against ATS policy.

reply to post by iwilliam

That said, I don't find the horse thing all that shocking. Mainly because I know greedy jerks will do anything for profit.

Well said, this is the basis for all.

reply to post by 2ndthought

I've been following your argument Raist, and I don't think you're going to get an honest answer, because your opposition is to heavily affected by EMOTION.

Very hypocritical comment and personal attack. All humans feel emotion about their point of view.

reply to post by Char-Lee


I was not attacking you I was pointing out observation in a discussion with another poster. It was not about you at all. I am not sure why you think it was about you. You might want to read the last few pages.

Sorry for any confusion, I was a bit confused myself when you replied to me.


Raist

reply to post by Char-Lee


Since I was not referring to you, maybe you could answer my questions that were directed at another poster.

Why is eating horse immoral? What about eating cows, they have best friends and are stressed when they are not around them. Why is eating cows moral when eating horse is not? Are there other animals that are immoral to eat? Are there any animals that are more immoral to eat than others?

Again, my comment had nothing to do with you and likely the other posters comment didn't either.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

I was not attacking you I was pointing out observation in a discussion with another poster. It was not about you at all. I am not sure why you think it was about you. You might want to read the last few pages.

Sorry for any confusion, I was a bit confused myself when you replied to me.


Raist

edit on 7/3/13 by Raist because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/3/13 by Raist because: (no reason given)

I was not confused I know you were not referring to my posts although it is the same as I agree with the other poster on their posts that have read, and all that is relevant, personal remarks are unnecessary as to anyones state of mind and as I said, who in the whole of the world as a human being does not have constant "feelings" about any subject they discuss?
Falling into or being led into that kind of statements is just plain and simply wrong. If you can't deal with the arguments at hand without that just ignore the arguments. That is the correct thing to do, I am sure you will agree.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Since I was not referring to you, maybe you could answer my questions that were directed at another poster.

Why is eating horse immoral? What about eating cows, they have best friends and are stressed when they are not around them. Why is eating cows moral when eating horse is not? Are there other animals that are immoral to eat? Are there any animals that are more immoral to eat than others?

Again, my comment had nothing to do with you and likely the other posters comment didn't either.

Raist

Since you are asking me for MY opinion. I feel that it is immoral FOR ME to eat any living feeling animal all of who show us great affection and even love and loyalty.

It is truly completely rehensible that anyone values their taste buds over the need to value the lives of the ones you eat and make sure they are not raised and killed abusively.

If you would not want it done to a human by a species considering themselves above us because they have the power to dominate us, then do not subject any creature to it. This means if you are going to devour them you should make yourself aware and care about what happens to them from birth to death. No blindly accepting what greedy corporations do and want.

In my opinion horses have given, they have given and given to humans in uncountable ways it saddens me all the years of the beloved western movies and the histories of the world that relied on the faithful worker who carried the burdens literally.

To me it is very little different then the multitudes of historic documents proving Chinese and other workers which were all believed to have no soul and be "lower" forms were worked hard and killed rather then their wages paid. Yes this is the same. God forgive us out arrogance.

I can't wait to see what tasty ideas McDonald's will come up with. Imagine if you will, horse-flesh fillet shaped meat on Sourdough, with GMO lettuce, tomatoes and MSG dressing all for $1.99 Yummy!

I can't wait to see what tasty ideas McDonald's will come up with. Imagine if you will, horse-flesh fillet shaped meat on Sourdough, with GMO lettuce, tomatoes and MSG dressing all for $1.99 Yummy!