Snowden: The Facts People Have Ignored

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
Is it not possible Edward Snowden is a modern-day double agent, cleverly hiding his actions and painting himself as a victim of the U.S. government while working as an agent for the Chinese and Russians?

That wouldn't make him a double agent, as he never had an agent relationship with the United States. It would be more correct to say he was an agent, a penetration, or a defector-in-place (who has since effected his defection). Or he might not have started working for them until he set foot on foreign territory and started his more-or-less public debriefing.

I can't make a new tread, but this is worth to bring your attention on, you can create a new thread of you judge this is worthy of it:

Original source:
www.spiegel.de...

And in english here:
www.theverge.com...

This is going further and further each day...

Adressing the OP only, all the quotes are his.

Is it no wonder certain government officials had publically called snowden a traitor? why? what do these officials know that we don't? people are ignoring this too...

To discredit his revelations.

All he was said to exposed was the "Potential" of these cyber programs, and that they could "potentially" be misused to spy on citizens, but there is absolutely no evidence of these programs being misused in this way, and FOR WHAT PURPOSE would they be?

Did you at all hear about the IRS scandal going on? Maybe not related to prism but take some time to ponder why I would bring that up.

What people are missing is the fact these CLAIMS that the public is being spied on are FALSE, pointless & impossible, the only truth is... that these NSA "national security" GCHQ programs "COULD POTENTIALLY" be "MISUSED" for spying & snooping directly on innocent US/UK citizens, but why?

Why? To make sure everything goes according to Agenda is just one huge reason. Making it easy to target people is another huge reason.

that is an utterly stupid and pointless Idea, not to mention IMPOSSIBLE to achieve, the government would have to clone its population to spy on each other, and again for what purpose?

They have computers. Computers that have code to sort this information. This information is sorted and put into your profile. They don't need to have a 1:1 of spy:citizen. Are you being utterly serious? That would be pointless when they can sit back with their feet on the desk and not do a thing unless needed to. Why would they watch every bit of data come in when they can just pull up your profile and look at every movement, text, call, e-mail, health problem, political stance, search engine search, picture, EVERYTHING. For a HUGE assortment of purposes, literally anything. I simply cannot believe you can't think of a single purpose for what they could do with this information other than "debunk terror plots". Get real man, come on. You said it yourself, it would be impossible to sift through all this information for the purpose you claim it's being used for.

and these systems guard against hackers which are far more a plentiful than NSA & GCHQ workers let alone the other threats these programs deal with.. as i'm sure agency's like this are already over stretched with the task at hand... this is just common sense

Please explain to me in detail how PRISM and the NSA programs guard against hackers. Collecting data does not prevent hackers sir. You might think that hackers won't be able to get through unnoticed, but you are simply wrong. There are methods of making tracking you extremely difficult. This is common sense.

The fact is the programs which could "potentially" be used to spy on you or i are advanced keyword loggers and if the systems suspects anyone using certain words or "code" which is suspected and decoded from other Intel programs, which alert the system, and then either a court order must be passed for the agency's to then monitor you directly for further investigation, and ONLY if you're found to be innocent/not a threat and a massive waste of time could you claim your privacy has be broken, the fact is these programs are well within the law and are no different to CREDIT CHECKS which you have from banks or credit loaners, hell i would love to go into a bank and not have my credit history pulled up and not refused a loan i had no intention of paying back, but just as these checks are important for the system, so are these programs for National Security

That was a long sentence. The fact is these programs are MORE than keyword loggers/flaggers. These programs collect tons of data. If you say something that could raise a flag, they then go through all of your data. The "keywords" are vast and are subject to increase. These programs are much, much different than credit checks sir. You comparing them is a complete distortion and that's all I have to say about that.

If you're not a threat to our socierty why you so worried about a computer storing information? that will never be read?, these programs are very much needed to protect our countries from homegrown threats, foreign terrorist cells operating within, foreign intelligence agency's operating within, drug cartels, and all the way down to benefit cheats and fraudsters etc, this alone is a massive job for these types of agency's

Ask the Tea Party. They may not have been profiled directly from the NSA program, but it goes to show that the government has been known to target people/organizations. Yes, it will benefit cheats and fraudsters who use the system to spy on market trends, bankers, corporations, and much more.

Also, please don't tell me this program is going to protect us from Drug Cartels. Did you hear about Fast & Furious?

to be continued..

who are those external threats... China? Russia? its no secret the Chinese have been stealing technology and gathering Intel on many western countries, or weaken these defenses

Yes, yes, Red China. Because all they want to do is ruin our relationship with them. Because we don't directly syphon tons of business by outsourcing every product to be made by them.

Also, this huge misunderstanding regarding China getting our secrets.. This was because contractors who have been contracted by the government to make parts for whatever thing, or make things, allowed files to be on systems connected to everyday internet.

In other words, it's like me owning a Factory that has been contracted to make nose cones for an F-18. On my computer I might have the schematic or information or e-mails regarding the F-18's nose cone. I connect this computer to the internet and hackers (from ANYWHERE) can hack my computer getting these documents. This is a serious issue/flaw with hiring contractors. And I'm sure it has been addressed/corrected in contracts ever since. This has nothing to do with the NSA but our own flawed security.

What better distraction for an angry public and cause tensions within, and tensions with allies, than to use and exploit a confused young man to deliver secrets... its the perfect propaganda campaign... turn the public against there governments, make it harder to defend against homegrown threats,and gain vast mountains of information on systems they seek to infiltrate and bypass

Fast & Furious, Benghazi, IRS, EPA, now NSA. Whose turned on who here? We turned on them? Oh.. news to me.

Watch your streets become flooded with drugs, terrorist explosions & bomb threats, welfare cheats milking the system, and your military secrets and defense programs stolen again and again until your dealing with an invasion threat from the ever stronger Russian, Chinese, Iran, North Korea, Alliance

NSA won't stop that. But the government being corrupt will cause that.

Well this is simply not true there is a limit on how long information is stored, and for many reason

And when we talk about a decade worth of an entire populations information this make it even more impossible for somebody to snoop directly

Sources? How do you know there is a limit. Also, you might think a decade of information unsorted is impossible, but if all the information is sorted into profiles for each person.. Piece of cake.

Firstly ask yourself why he would take it at all?

Collateral, so they understand if anything that happens to him for harmlessly informing people they were spied on... Then they will seriously have an issue on their hands, and not just mindlessly kill him or lock him up like they do EVERYONE ELSE

"Oh but he shouldn't have revealed the info in such a way, he shouldn't have stole information, blah blah blah" KK. SO you mean he should follow procedures to indict himself straight to prison with no hopes of ever being heard? Okay.. I can see what kind of Nation you want to live in.

The US will alway go after security breaches (and most countries would too). There was a case a few years ago where they tried to get an autistic Scottish guy extradited for hacking some US military system (he was looking for evidence of ufos). They were determined to prosecute him but the UK eventually blocked it.

en.wikipedia.org...

I think its more a warning, to other potential whistle blowers as anything eles

Do you think snowden is a form of lesser magic?

Most of the comments I wanted to make have already been made by previous posters.
I read the original post twice now and I am still looking for the OP's facts - but all I see are assumptions and presumptions, NOT facts.

ganjoa

reply to post by TritonTaranis


You have the internet.

A simple search for "government caught storing consumer data" on Google itself will, undoubtedly prove me right.

This from ScientificAmerican:
*****To find out, Scientific American spoke with metadata expert Mark Herschberg, CTO at Madison Logic and instructor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Herschberg has worked with the programs used to gather big data and was able to elucidate how our internet data has become an important—if not invasive—commodity.

An edited transcript of the interview follows.

What kind of software can be used to collect big data?

It can be collected a number of different ways. It sounds like the NSA is going into the servers of Facebook and others and accessing their log files through some kind of "backdoor." In that case, you can write pretty simple programs that can copy those files and transfer them to local servers. You could also get this data by installing spying software on an individual’s computer. The third option is actually listening through the pipe, the digital version of wiretapping*****.

That's one way.

The powers that collect our data will never, ever tell us how. It HAS to be exposed the way it was. Never has a government handed back power. It's ripped from it's cold dead hands. And branches thereof.

Originally posted by Joneselius
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

A simple search for "government caught storing consumer data" on Google itself will, undoubtedly prove me right.

Ironically Google will store the data when you search

About an hour ago, a frontpage article on the guardian website was taken down just as I wanted to comment on it.
now states : This article has been taken down pending an investigation. ( my guess is that the Guardian is being put under pressure by US office)

I managed to copy some to a post on another thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In the article a whistleblower by the name of Marsden spill on the fact that 6 other European countries and their signal sharing contracts with US and UK intel.

and apparently "US vice-president Joe Biden has asked Ecuador to turn down an asylum request from National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden, the country's president said Saturday.
www.guardian.co.uk...

What Snowden has given us is "snowballing" , forcing 6 more countries to try and explain why they gather personal data from it's citizens. And I for one am grateful that finally people will be awakened to the facts.

As someone else stated, the downplaying of the Snowden leaks by Obama and UN representative Rice are transparant attempts to minimize the damage, yet at the same time going through an awful lot of trouble behind the scenes to trap Mr Snowden.

I saw the same page and read once the page, but if I remember well, it was referring to this:

www.privacysurgeon.org...

reply to post by myrddin99


The Guardian may have ben a little hasty in posting and didn't do a background search on Mr Madson, who it seems is a bit of a conspiracy nutter so to speak and does not qualify as a "reliable source".

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

It is quite possible that the United States of America is being ruled by a single person at the NSA right now.

why couldn't it happen? Better yet, why wouldn't it happen?

lol

If you think a single person let alone a handful of people could run a country then that would be your mistake its requires a vast network of people to run a government/country