Why being Gay IS a Natural thing

reply to post by Christian Voice


And your defense is an invisible man in the sky. Oh, and your personal taste in relationships. I find that so much more convincing.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Not really. I don't understand those people that stand with gays to their face but disagree with you when you are not around. If they legitimately agree and stand for that and are not two faced about it then I respect the fact that they are standing for what they believe is right even though I disagree with them. Same goes for the other side of the fence. I know whole heartedly that there are two faced cowards on here that claim to be homosexuals who deny even themselves in the right circumstances. Most of my friends (close friends) are Christian and we have deep conversations about things like this all the time and they are so like minded with me but yet they change their entire tune the moment that gay relative or gay friend walks in. I do have friends that are gay. Believe it or not. They know beyond the shadow of a doubt how I feel. They do not push the issue nor do I. I was a Geology major and have a huge rock and fossil collection and go on digs often (just as a hobby, I work in telecom). One of my friends that is gay loves my rocks and going on digs and that is our bond. By the way he is anti gay marriage. He knows how two faced the others are but he never lets on like it bothers him.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I haven't brought up my faith to you yet have I? I am discussing natural and unnatural, not right or wrong. This thread is about naturalness of homosexuality. I have no problem arguing my point without My God. I can totally start quoting scripture if it makes you feel better though.

Well, before we say that i would be considered 'unnatural' what is considered 'natural' and who gets to decide it's standards? and who else would be grouped into 'Unnatural?

reply to post by spirited75

my moral intuition tells me that male/male or female/female in the human realm is sinful and wrong for many many reasons.

I can understand that. Morality changes so there is bound to be differing opinions in the moral sphere.

What I can't accept is believing your morality was handed down by a supernatural force. At least, without compelling evidence.

even if it is gay behavior in an animal, we humans are supposed to be more intelligent than an animal, at least that is what I learned in school and church. if some humans are not more intelligent than an animal, then that explains a lot to me.

You don't have to worry about this. There are plenty of brilliant gay people. That ship has long since sailed.

also, if it is so natural, then how many of you straight and gay lovers allow a horny dog to continue to hump your leg at your friends party, or at the park in public?

This makes sense to you? I am struggling to see the connection. Truly.

Homosexual orientation for a human means human attracted to other humans of same gender. Not attraction towards same sex of any animal. That's not the point being made when talking about animals and 'natural'.

Maybe you can paraphrase andor elaborate.

reply to post by Christian Voice

Back to the topic at hand. I have not seen one legitimate argument on this thread yet for why homosexuality is a natural thing.

I mentioned earlier people define 'natural' differently.

1) How do you define 'natural'.

2) Explain why 'unnatural' is intrinsically bad. Explain why this doesn't apply to your computer.

reply to post by Christian Voice

I haven't brought up my faith to you yet have I? I am discussing natural and unnatural, not right or wrong. This thread is about naturalness of homosexuality. I have no problem arguing my point without My God. I can totally start quoting scripture if it makes you feel better though.

Good. I'm satisfied with that. Let's keep dubious divine entities out of this discussion.

So! You've declared homosexual behavior in animals to be an unconvincing argument. Homosexual behavior in animals suggests it is NOT a human perversion. Additionally, many animals have sex simply for fun, also undermining the argument that sexual activity is purely a procreative pursuit. The fact that many animals have been recorded experiencing something akin to orgasmic chemical releases also suggests that they are capable of having sex purely for fun.

With all of the above taken into consideration, the whole "sex is for procreation" argument begins to look rather weak. That's my main argument on the subject, given my personal opinion that homosexuals shouldn't have to feel guilty about a relationship that isn't anyone else's business. It makes them happy, it hurts no one, so let them be. My own parents are gay, so I can personally attest to that.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Christian Voice

 

Additionally, many animals have sex simply for fun,

Unless you are an omnipotent omniscient being
it is impossible for you to claim or state that
animals have sex for fun.

reply to post by spirited75


Can you disprove it? If animals were not having sex for fun, they would not possess the organs necessary to have an orgasm.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Wow you are really reaching there. Animal sex is instinct and only instinct. They follow their instincts and reproduce. I had a hamster that ate her young everytime she had them. I guess then that that should be acceptable natural behavior for a human as well since it is seen in the animal world. I had a dog that humped legs and pillows and even the side of the couch. Another example of behavior that is just acceptable in humans since an animal was seen doing it. Such an ignorant argument.
You argue that homosexuality is natural and that homosexuals are born that way well here....
blogs.discovermagazine.com...
Pedophiles claim the same thing. Don't come at me with the bullcrap response that it's different because "two consenting adults" crap. I'm talking about the attraction only, not the action. You people are claiming homosexuality is natural and it cannot be helped who you are attracted to and you argue that heteros cannot help who they are attracted to. Well now pedophiles claim they cannot help who they are attracted to. I saw on the discovery channel where a male hyena was having sex with a very young female hyena. Hey, since this is seen in the animal kingdom it must be natural shouldn't it?
Go ahead and get angry because I once again compared homosexuals to pedophiles. They are both people that have attractions outside the norms. They are the same as far as attraction goes. But here again I dare to claim that most homosexuals do not start off as consenting adults.

What about drug addiction, is it natural too?

reply to post by GoldenVoyager

What about drug addiction, is it natural too?

Are you seriously comparing homosexuality to drug addiction? On what basis?

Originally posted by GoldenVoyager
What about drug addiction, is it natural too?

Well opiates are natural, and they are a little addictive. The brain has receptors for opiates, the come OOTB and not a third party add-on; So yes, drug addiction IS natural

reply to post by Christian Voice

Wow you are really reaching there. Animal sex is instinct and only instinct.

Can you prove that they are not enjoying the experience?

They follow their instincts and reproduce. I had a hamster that ate her young everytime she had them. I guess then that that should be acceptable natural behavior for a human as well since it is seen in the animal world.

That's not the point here. Homosexuality is not exclusive to the human species, nor is sexual activity necessarily restricted to purely reproductive purposes. Any other point is beside the point I am making.

I had a dog that humped legs and pillows and even the side of the couch.

Surely an animal whose reproductive inclinations were the sole motivation of its...antics...would not thrust so blindly about? This implies that it was looking for ANY form of release and not just a procreative avenue.

Another example of behavior that is just acceptable in humans since an animal was seen doing it. Such an ignorant argument.
You argue that homosexuality is natural and that homosexuals are born that way well here....

I'm not interested in your silly magazine. Media is interested in ratings, not accuracy. If they can get away with selling bullcrap for 5 dollars a copy, then they will do it. Not to mention that your Christian background is an undeniable source of bias in the matter. I am not gay and I am not religious, I have no personal reason to swing either way on the issue other than what I discover through research. And sexuality is not nearly as clean cut a subject as you would have me believe.

Pedophiles claim the same thing. Don't come at me with the bullcrap response that it's different because "two consenting adults" crap. I'm talking about the attraction only, not the action.

We're not discussing pedophiles, are we? If so, then allow me to put up a stop sign right there. I'm not engaging in that discussion with you. It's a tangent that is irrelevant to the case I am making here.

You people are claiming homosexuality is natural and it cannot be helped who you are attracted to and you argue that heteros cannot help who they are attracted to. Well now pedophiles claim they cannot help who they are attracted to.

I believe it.

I saw on the discovery channel where a male hyena was having sex with a very young female hyena. Hey, since this is seen in the animal kingdom it must be natural shouldn't it?

Humans are bent upon behaving unnaturally. They are not satisfied with being animals, and so they must behave like machines. I think the real question is, where are society's morals coming from?

Go ahead and get angry because I once again compared homosexuals to pedophiles. They are both people that have attractions outside the norms. They are the same as far as attraction goes. But here again I dare to claim that most homosexuals do not start off as consenting adults.

I'm not angry. I'm exasperated. And I'm not going to take my frustrations out on you because even if you have a different opinion, you've demonstrated nothing but respect for me. I feel obligated to return the same.

With that said, who are you to say what is normal? And where are your statistics for that claim?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


OK, you have made your point. The point that this is a completely one sided argument. Every point that anyone brings up to you, you refuse to address and put up your stop sign. I made very solid points and you just did what you and most of the other homosexuals on here do, you side stepped them and refused to comment. I am out to sit on the sidelines until you and your side to discuss things properly. I won't sit back and watch you gang up on anyone any further though.

"Are you seriously comparing homosexuality to drug addiction? On what basis? "

Well I was just making the point that they both might be natural as discussed in the original post, but I suppose there is the comparison of choice as both are behaviors of choice. Some blame DNA, but I am of the belief that we are capable of making choices.

I know many women who enjoy girls as they do boys. I guess there DNA forces them to like both and they have no choice with whom they have intercourse with. What about all these bisexual guys? Why are they not homo or hetero... why? because this whole thing is based on choice.

As for drugs, you have the choice to put the pipe down, no one is forcing you...

people need to start taking accountability for their actions...

but it is all natural so who cares anyhow.

reply to post by Christian Voice

OK, you have made your point. The point that this is a completely one sided argument. Every point that anyone brings up to you, you refuse to address and put up your stop sign. I made very solid points and you just did what you and most of the other homosexuals on here do, you side stepped them and refused to comment. I am out to sit on the sidelines until you and your side to discuss things properly. I won't sit back and watch you gang up on anyone any further though.

I don't understand where your frustration is coming from. I'm not ganging up on anyone. As far as I am able to discern, I've been very respectful toward you. I have made my points, most of which were backed up with scientifically verified data, and I have listened to your points in return. What points have I ignored or sidestepped? Homosexuality is not a purely human behavior. Sexual activity is not a purely procreative behavior. These are the two points I have made. In addition, I have noted other points including the definition of 'natural' and how many things that could also be considered 'unnatural' have been taken in stride by many, including yourself.

This supports the theory that this isn't just a matter of what is natural or what isn't...at least in regards to arguments such as the one you have brought forth. If I am wrong, please explain to me in detail how you feel I am wrong and why.

Anyone else a homosexual here saying how we selected to be this way?

personal belief is free and i defend that, but you are basing your thoughts on misconceptions and other peoples research that only deal with the side you believe

i can tell you i never selected to be Homosexual so it's natural to me

reply to post by GoldenVoyager

Well I was just making the point that they both might be natural as discussed in the original post, but I suppose there is the comparison of choice as both are behaviors of choice. Some blame DNA, but I am of the belief that we are capable of making choices.

Certainly! You can choose to ignore your sexuality entirely and become celibate. That doesn't change your genetic inclinations, but it does change how you choose to vent them.

I know many women who enjoy girls as they do boys. I guess there DNA forces them to like both and they have no choice with whom they have intercourse with. What about all these bisexual guys? Why are they not homo or hetero... why? because this whole thing is based on choice.

Because they enjoy the freedom of having consenting relations with whomever they choose. I would like to take this opportunity to express my stance in a little more detail: I don't give a flying rat's furry hindquarters who has sex with who. If both parties are consenting and both parties are benefitting, then that is their mutual choice. It is my firm belief that sexuality is just as much an exchange of emotional benefit as it is anything else. People have sex to fulfill an emotional need. People have relationships to fulfill and emotional need. If both parties in any relationship are receiving the emotional fulfillment they set out to fulfill, then I am happy for both of them. Go team.

With that said, I don't believe it's any one's right to tell someone, "Hey, your need for this sort of emotional fulfillment is wrong. I don't feel that need, and neither should you." That's just bigoted and arrogant, assuming that your way is the right way and anything different is 'unnatural' or 'immoral'. My preference in ice cream or Subway sandwiches has no effect on your personal life and liberties - as such, you shouldn't have anything to say about it. Furthermore, you have no ground to judge me as I would not presume to tell you that your heterosexual relationship is disgusting and you should change your ways simply because I don't understand or don't agree with your emotional needs.

I hope that makes my stance clearer.

As for drugs, you have the choice to put the pipe down, no one is forcing you...

people need to start taking accountability for their actions...

but it is all natural so who cares anyhow.

You have the choice to avoid women or men. You choose not to because it provides you satisfaction and you don't see the harm in it...because there is no harm in it. This extends to homosexuals, the consequences of such a relationship being just as common amongst heterosexual partners. Gay people are not having sex at 14 and getting pregnant by the age of 16. Promiscuity is not a hallmark of homosexuality. Disease is not a hallmark of homosexuality. Deviance is not a hallmark of homosexuality. Discrimination, on the other hand, is a hallmark of people caring about entirely the wrong sorts of things simply because it isn't their kind of indulgence.

reply to post by Darth_Prime

Anyone else a homosexual here saying how we selected to be this way?

personal belief is free and i defend that, but you are basing your thoughts on misconceptions and other peoples research that only deal with the side you believe

i can tell you i never selected to be Homosexual so it's natural to me

I am adopted. I lived with my adoptive parents for 9 years. I lived with a homosexual couple for 9 years of my life. I breathed the air they breathed, ate what they ate, used the same bathroom and shower and toilet, and I can tell you that my experiences lead me to believe that 'choice' is completely irrelevant. They didn't choose to be what they are, but even if it was a choice, it is no more consequential than choosing green boxers over red. My grandparents nearly disowned my mother, but now - even as devout Catholics - they have chosen to reevaluate their beliefs...after putting my mother and her partner through hell.

I have seen absolutely not a damned thing to suggest that their relationship was unnatural or even unhealthy. Have said all that, I believe I have the experience to at least voice my opinion in the subject, given my experiences of observing first hand the behavior of homosexuals.