Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

LOL

Define Christian for me... there are almost 40,000 different versions of it...

And Jesus wasn't "Christian" so why would I proclaim such a label?

:shk:

Then you must be Jewish because that's what Jesus was. So then what would you call yourself?

Since your not Jesus himself you can only be a follower of his teachings. Even if you want to call yourself a disciple of Jesus that would still make you a Christian.

Acts 11:26
.the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Even Peter had no problem being recognized as a Christian. Are you better or smarter then he was?

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

So again, whether you like it or not you are a Christian if you believe and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The only way not be known as a Christian is to say you don't believe in his teachings.

edit on 28-6-2013 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

So I am confined to your definition of Christianity... or I am another label?

Yet somehow you don't even quote the gospels for proof of this... Nifty...

What would I call myself... Human?

I am what I am...

*sigh*

And you wonder why I don't call myself Christian...

Label me as you wish... I've taken on many... but accept none...

edit on 28-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

We can solve this by you answering my question.

Do you follow the teachings of Jesus which are written in the Gospels or not?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


Allllll-righty then!
Whatever you say, boss!!

Cool - so then...I'm NOT going to hell, like so many "Christians" have told me I will do? And I'm NOT a demon?

AWESOME!!! I didn't think so, either!!

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

LOL

Define Christian for me... there are almost 40,000 different versions of it...

And Jesus wasn't "Christian" so why would I proclaim such a label?

:shk:

Then you must be Jewish because that's what Jesus was. So then what would you call yourself?

Since your not Jesus himself you can only be a follower of his teachings. Even if you want to call yourself a disciple of Jesus that would still make you a Christian.

Acts 11:26
.the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Even Peter had no problem being recognized as a Christian. Are you better or smarter then he was?

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

So again, whether you like it or not you are a Christian if you believe and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The only way not be known as a Christian is to say you don't believe in his teachings.

edit on 28-6-2013 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

So I am confined to your definition of Christianity... or I am another label?

Yet somehow you don't even quote the gospels for proof of this... Nifty...

What would I call myself... Human?

I am what I am...

*sigh*

And you wonder why I don't call myself Christian...

Label me as you wish... I've taken on many... but accept none...

edit on 28-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

We can solve this by you answering my question.

Do you follow the teachings of Jesus which are written in the Gospels or not?

I try the best I can...

And that does not make me "Christian"...

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by dominicus

 

I wasn't a sinner when i pre-existed. But i do think sin is karma that ways us down and away from God and heaven.

You pre-existed? So you were there with God before creation?

Considering WHO GOD may be to MAN related to EA*RTH, its not hard to consider that mankind was in a less aware form before Creation just as many CREATOR Creations carried different ENERGY forms before being CREATED...

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Blasphemy beyond anything i have ever heard, this one takes the cake. Christian my left foot. Scriptures establish that there is only one who ever pre-exists and that is Yeshua. You people all make yourselves out the be the One who Was and Is and Is to Come. I have heard enough of this foolishness.

edit on 28-6-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

1 Apollos if shared foolish data..

NAMASTE*******

Hey guys and gals,
Is it just me, or am I noticing a distinct "change of tone" (or 'tune', if you will) from the board-at-large here??

Seems like quite a few folk are getting on board with this "New Age hocus-pocus garbage" lately....which was until very recently resoundlingly dismissed (as so much garbage) among MANY members....

or, maybe it's just me.
Anyway, a much more united front we seem to have here. Hmmmmmm.......o_O

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by dominicus

 

I wasn't a sinner when i pre-existed. But i do think sin is karma that ways us down and away from God and heaven.

You pre-existed? So you were there with God before creation? Blasphemy beyond anything i have ever heard, this one takes the cake. Christian my left foot. Scriptures establish that there is only one who ever pre-exists and that is Yeshua. You people all make yourselves out the be the One who Was and Is and Is to Come. I have heard enough of this foolishness.

edit on 28-6-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

Blasphemy?! Simmer down there cowboy!

According to the Book of Jubilees, as it was recovered from the Dead Sea Scrolls, Pre-existence is embedded in the creation story.

For on the first day He created the heavens which are above and the earth and the waters and all the spirits which serve before him -the angels of the presence, and the angels of sanctification, and the angels [of the spirit of fire and the angels] of the spirit of the winds, and the angels of the spirit of the clouds, and of darkness, and of snow and of hail and of hoar frost, and the angels of the voices and of the thunder and of the lightning, and the angels of the spirits of cold and of heat, and of winter and of spring and of autumn and of summer

and of all the spirits of his creatures which are in the heavens and on the earth, (He created)

the abysses and the darkness, eventide , and the light, dawn and day, which He hath prepared in the knowledge of his heart. And thereupon we saw His works, and praised Him, and lauded before Him on account of all His works; for seven great works did He create on the first day.
www.pseudepigrapha.com...

Pre-existence was an accepted doctrine of the Hebrew people, as well as Greeks and Roman, etc. as well as Christians, up until the middle of the 5th century AD, when Emperor Justinian banned the concept, and then killed those who wouldn't conform.

Jesus proclaimed his own pre-existence, and promised eternal life to his followers. Do those followers HAVE eternal life? If so, couldn't they choose to reincarnate back into the post Jesus world, to continue the "Great Work."? If so, then those souls pre-existed before their present incarnation.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

LOL

Define Christian for me... there are almost 40,000 different versions of it...

And Jesus wasn't "Christian" so why would I proclaim such a label?

:shk:

Then you must be Jewish because that's what Jesus was. So then what would you call yourself?

Since your not Jesus himself you can only be a follower of his teachings. Even if you want to call yourself a disciple of Jesus that would still make you a Christian.

Acts 11:26
.the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Even Peter had no problem being recognized as a Christian. Are you better or smarter then he was?

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

So again, whether you like it or not you are a Christian if you believe and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The only way not be known as a Christian is to say you don't believe in his teachings.

edit on 28-6-2013 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

So I am confined to your definition of Christianity... or I am another label?

Yet somehow you don't even quote the gospels for proof of this... Nifty...

What would I call myself... Human?

I am what I am...

*sigh*

And you wonder why I don't call myself Christian...

Label me as you wish... I've taken on many... but accept none...

edit on 28-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

We can solve this by you answering my question.

Do you follow the teachings of Jesus which are written in the Gospels or not?

I try the best I can...

And that does not make me "Christian"...

Ok. If you want to follow his teachings but not be Christian you know that's a contradiction within itself. I understand people known as Christians get a bad rap, but for the love of God that's no reason to deny the fact that you are one if you believe. Self denial is not a good thing you know.

Anyway I'm done with this thread. Off to something more interesting.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

Self denial is not a good thing you know

LOL... wow

Get thee behind me satan...

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

I know the truth hurts. Bottom line is, if you believe his message was true and he said the things he said then and claim to follow his teachings then yes you are Christian.

From the voice of your fingertips on the keyboard, to the eyes and ears of fundamental Christians everywhere.

reply to post by windword


First of all you need to go back and study your theory of a soul being spawned from a biological reaction as you have it completely backwards.

Second reincarnation is what the symbol of the double cross (octagon) represents and is ruled by Saturn (see Hyper Cube).

Christianity believes Christ concurred this cycle.

They believe Christ died upon it so that mankind could have everlasting LIFE not endless death and reincarnation.

EDIT
Of note is the current belief in most 'reincarnation' religious beliefs is that one's own actions can grant them access to heaven which is not supported by the teachings of Christ.

Hence the divide.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Of note is the current belief in most 'reincarnation' religious beliefs is that one's own actions can grant them access to heaven which is not supported by the teachings of Christ.

You mean not supported by Paul...

Love requires action... not just belief/faith

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by windword

 

First of all you need to go back and study your theory of a soul being spawned from a biological reaction as you have it completely backwards.

That is not my theory, it is a question that I posed. It seems that many people believe that a new soul is created for every fertilized egg. This belief begs the question, "Is the soul a biological manifestation?" I don't believe it is.

Second reincarnation is what the symbol of the double cross (octagon) represents and is ruled by Saturn (see Hyper Cube).

Christianity believes Christ concurred this cycle.

They believe Christ died upon it so that mankind could have everlasting LIFE not endless death and reincarnation.

Jesus taught of both eternal death, the gnashing of teeth and what not. And, he spoke of eternal life. Reincarnation isn't necessarily eternal death. Once one realizes that are bodies are not who we are, but a vehicle that we use to experience god and the creation, death and the fear of death, has no more hold on us.

"Oh death! Where is your sting?"

EDIT
Of note is the current belief in most 'reincarnation' religious beliefs is that one's own actions can grant them access to heaven which is not supported by the teachings of Christ.

Hence the divide.

Not really. That's an over simplification.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli


They believe Christ died upon it so that mankind could have everlasting LIFE not endless death and reincarnation.

AND 1 FELT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST just didn't want FATHER & OTHERS to intervene who watched what was done to he by humanity back then.. and so blessed humanity with LIFE to mature...

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
EDIT
Of note is the current belief in most 'reincarnation' religious beliefs is that one's own actions can grant them access to heaven which is not supported by the teachings of Christ.

Hence the divide.

edit on 28-6-2013 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

Also if LORD JESUS CHRIST preached doing good over evol is this not guiding the SPIRITS away from potential unwanted repeated experiences , eternal experiences in HELL like locations... Which if designed can base reality to fit the captured consciousness...

My problem with reincarnation is that there are more people alive today than have died, so some mathematically cannot be a reincarnation. Unless 1 previous soul can occupy more than one new soul.

reply to post by windword

Okay, but do you think that the soul dies with the body, or is it's life cycle separate from biology?

I think that human physical and cultural evolution and human spiritual evolution work together. In the same way that older species disappear to make way for the newer species, so also it is with the spirit. And in the same way that Neanderthals are nowhere to be found today except as a DNA percentage in modern humans, so also, the human spirit has evolved with traces of its past. (see Neanderthals, Humans Interbred—First Solid DNA Evidence

What I'm doing is challenging the orthodox teaching of reincarnation as a transmigration of the soul, as if the soul were an entity that merely inhabits a body for a time, then moves to a new one. A soul as made up of the building blocks in the same way that the body is made up has the chance for evolution, through blending. A static entity that refuses to die so as to make room for the new hinders evolution.

So I know that I'm a heretic, yet that's what these things seem to indicate to me. The old axiom "as below, so it is above" Evolution = Reincarnation which does not include Neanderthal souls except as parts and pieces of the souls of today. That's spiritual evolution.

Somehow, I feel that even then, we aren't alone, but are in the company of other empaths, and 10,000 angels dancing on the head of a pin.

I know you said that as a joke, but that's how I see myself, not an eternal discrete soul, but rather the soul that is carrying within itself the building blocks of 10,000 souls.

reply to post by templar knight

Originally posted by templar knight
My problem with reincarnation is that there are more people alive today than have died, so some mathematically cannot be a reincarnation. Unless 1 previous soul can occupy more than one new soul.

It is mathematically impossible that life only exists on our planet...

And I hate math, but that much is obvious...which also solves your issue

reply to post by jacobe001

Originally posted by jacobe001
The Bible is suspect as well, considering it was assembled from select books at the time, by the GOVERNMENT at that time.

What about the person that actually SAID that?

What caused you to actually BELIEVE what they were saying?

You may want to take a serious look at who you trust and believe.

The laws of probability have PROVEN that the Bible is a construction of God and show that it is a complete impossibility that any man could have thought it up.

The fulfillment of prophecy in the Bible is proof that the Bible is in fact divinely inspired.

The Bible is proven as the word of God by the fulfillment of Bible prophesies. It is mathematically impossible for all of these prophesies to have just happened by chance. This proves that the people that wrote the Bible were inspired by God, for only God could accurately foretell the future, in detail 100% of the time, and at the same time encourage mankind to obey Him.

Source

The chances of just 48 out of the 456 prophecies being fulfilled in one person are 1 in 10 to the 157 power. "All this illustrates why it is absolutely impossible for anyone to have fulfilled the Messianic prophecies by chance. In fact, a leading authority on the probability theory, Emile Borel states that once we go past one chance in 10 to the 50th power, the probabilities are so small it's impossible to think they will ever occur." LINK

"Perhaps the most compelling of evidences demonstrating that the Bible is the word of God is its unswerving ability to accurately predict future events, often in minute details. Specific prophesies are conspicuously absent from the 26 other religious books that claim to be scripture, including the Muslim's Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, and Buddhist writings. This in itself should be a major eye-opener to the honest skeptic. "

Accuracy Of Prophecy

reply to post by templar knight


I don't understand that logic. There are way more people, in all the history of the world, that have lived and died, than there are people alive today. Think about it. So many souls, in fact, many claim that there's a waiting list for souls to reincarnate.

Our present worldly population may be the highest the globe has seen, but it can't account for all the souls that have been.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You pre-existed?

Yes, as did all of us. You just don't remember. My memory of pre-existing came after getting the Holy Spirit, Ego Death (Not I, but Christ in me), the Gifts of the Spirit.

1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

So you were there with God before creation?

God is Infinitely everywhere. There is no place you can go that God isn't there. Since I pre-existed prior to the body, as did you all, then we were all there w/ God in one way or another.

Blasphemy beyond anything i have ever heard, this one takes the cake.

I am willing to die for the Sake of the Lord and also for the sake of remembering pre-existence. It is Truth.

The "blasphemy label" sounds like a you were infused with Bias based on Westernized Fundamentalist Dogma.

If you do your homework, you'll find that there were quite a number of Christian Saints, theologians, Desert Father's and numerous others who remembered pre-existing. It happens even today in the Eastern Orthodox monasteries .....a denomination that actually holds the cleanest roots to Christ and the Disciples.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you......."

Christian my left foot.

Your labeling and accusations remind me of the one's against Jesus that came out of the mouth's of the Saducees and Pharisees. Good luck with that!!!! You are not one to judge who is and isn't a Christian....

Scriptures establish that there is only one who ever pre-exists and that is Yeshua.

Jer 1:5 ...... besides not everything is covered in scripture. Jesus was "dumbing it down" to the Jews. He wasn't teaching the advanced stuff. That's the whole purpose for 1 john 2:27. When you get the gifts/faculties instilled in you by the Holy SPirit, then you remember that you pre-existed.

There are people here on ATS that aren't Christians and remember pre-exiting.....

You people all make yourselves out the be the One who Was and Is and Is to Come.

Did I say that? Where? I am not Christ and I am not God ......just a soul passing through working out my salvation, ego death, (Not I, but Christ in me....) surrender, letting go, meditation, non-judgment, love ....etc.

I have heard enough of this foolishness.

foolishness is relative. I can show your rely/post to quite a number of people who will say that you spoke from the ego and not from the heart, and that it was your post which revealed the fool. Since foolishness is relative, we can't both be right. Who is the fool then?

If I am a fool, I am a fool for the Lord, the Spirit, Infinite and Absolute God himself.....

By the way, did I tell you lately that I Love you? For I know the real you......

Originally posted by templar knight
My problem with reincarnation is that there are more people alive today than have died, so some mathematically cannot be a reincarnation. Unless 1 previous soul can occupy more than one new soul.

there is no objective proof of that especially if not native here... Good point however

EVER SEE MOVIE SERIES THE EVENT...

Overview[edit]

Near the end of World War II, a craft of undetermined origin crashed in the Brooks Range of northern Alaska. It carried passengers who appeared outwardly human, but were eventually determined to be of extraterrestrial origin. Their DNA is slightly less than one percent different from humans, and they age at a much slower rate. Since ninety-seven captured survivors refused to disclose information to the US, they were held in a nearby government facility, located on fictional Mount Inostranka. The remaining survivors, also known as the Sleepers, were able to escape the crash scene, as they, unlike those who were captured, sustained minor injuries. Those who escaped ended up hiding among the regular populace.

In the present day, President Martinez learns of the facility's existence shortly after his inauguration and decides, after meeting the leader of the detainees, to release them and disclose their existence to the world, despite the objections of the intelligence agencies. His plans are put on hold when an assassination attempt on him is foiled by means beyond human technology. The CIA realizes there are other extraterrestrials and secretly plans to find and detain them. Unknown to the agency, the agent chosen to head the effort is himself one of those extraterrestrials. The escaped extraterrestrials, upon learning of the CIA's plans, have mixed reactions: some want to try to salvage attempts to peacefully assimilate, while others want to fight against the populace.

Caught in the middle of these events is Sean Walker, whose plans to propose to his girlfriend Leila on a Caribbean cruise are cut short when she mysteriously disappears from the ship. His investigation eventually leads him to uncover the assassination plot.

NAMASTE*******