Broken Law: Ohio County Hides Actual Vote Count

soficrow, taking those words of mine completely out of context serves no purpose - I included the dates mandated by Ohio law in respect to vote counting and indicated the requirement of a full count certified by December 1st.

Thats why I said people are jumping the gun.

This topic and several responses point out that there are those at ATS who want to uncover and discover, and those who seek to cover up.

The cover-uppers don't know that they no longer live in any model of democracy. Therefore they will pay no mind at all, obviously, when their civil rights have been completely eroded and their voice is gone.

Still wondering why Kerry conceded so early and easily. Hint: it wasn't because he didn't want to further divide the nation.

If there was a hint of fraud, why didn't the legions of lawyers descend upon Ohio in their Lear jets and briefcases, like was threatened?

I think it will be finally exposed for what it was - shenanigans on both sides, except the Democrats hand are a little dirtier, and thus their first round dive to the matttress.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
This topic and several responses point out that there are those at ATS who want to uncover and discover, and those who seek to cover up.

MA where were you and what was your stance on voter registration fraud. How about the SBVT allegations and form 180. What about major media collusion with the campaign. What about 527's, just to name a few of the many issues that were heavily sandbagged here and elsewhere.

And you want to lecture on "uncover and discover" that is a laugh

The only thing worth uncovering is that which already fits your preconcieved world view IMHO.

My additions to this post were not partisan to the treatment of the issue and added fact to the fiction some were posting.

Its an intellectual disconnect to ignore the facts presented and continue pell mell onwards with assertions already discounted - thats your perogitive though.

Logic as dictated makes the next statement a truism.

The Kerry campaign and its lawyers must now be considered complicit in the conspiracy of cover-up as well as the avowed expert on E-voting machines - phew! that guy George Bush must be a sheer genius in your eyes assembling a team so fully capable of pulling off the grandest conspiracy ever to grace these pages I just never gave him enough credit - I'll have to work on that.

On a serious note I do agree in the main that e-voting as it exists is not the panacea to our voting problems in this country and that they just add another dimension to the issue.

People of all parties and beliefs should indeed lobby their Senators and Congressman/women to effect the changes needed to secure the voting system from all outside influence no matter the source.

Whats your solution?

Bye the Bye I live in a Republic not a Democracy

Even Donna Brazile (another secret Bush convertee:lol refutes manipulation of the results,

"There was no overwhelming reason to cast doubt on the outcome of this election," seconded Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, the campaign manager for Al Gore's 2000 campaign. "George Bush got more votes this time."

ABC News (now - Amalgamated Bush Channel)

The world is upside down - they're all turncoats

Hmmm, one has to ask is the light of day too bright for a balanced investigation - are democrats in the "know" squelching things in lieu of having to cover a scandel of their own making. Maybe there is a cover-up afterall.

Things are getting very suspicious with these hardcore claiming everything is on the up and up.



[edit on 9-11-2004 by Phoenix]

On Friday, officials in Franklin County � which includes state capital Columbus � acknowledged that they may have improperly counted votes for Bush because of a touch-screen 'voting' system malfunction. A precinct in the county reported that a 4,000-vote margin won by Bush appeared to exceed the number of registered voters. The touch-screen system in Franklin County is among the oldest and least reliable electronic voting machines in use, said David Dill, a Stanford University computer expert. Based on reports that Dill's organization � Verified Voting.org � has received, one precinct in Youngstown, Ohio, recorded a negative 25 million votes, which was discarded from official results. And it was widely reported after Nov. 2 that a North Carolina precinct lost 4,000 votes when a recording device used up all its memory but voters continued to cast ballots on the machine.

LA Times

On a much, much lighter note:

My additions to this post were not partisan to the treatment of the issue and added fact to the fiction some were posting.

Its an intellectual disconnect to ignore the facts presented and continue pell mell onwards with assertions already discounted - thats your perogitive though.

The issue: NO TRAIL, VOTES COUNTED FOR & NOT MEANT FOR, NO VIEWING OF ACTUAL COUNT TABULATION!!!

But to give our proud neo-conservative credit, the techniques have not deviated one iota - grasp a grain of truth and turn that into the gospel of a new religion! I hope you all walk away with thinking that Rubin is the Comp Sci expert that drives the Democratic initiatives on this issue; some one has worked hard to reinforce that!
If only the non-partisan claim were true; too bad the searh for post function is at the bottom of every post:

Well this just means that more voters will have to be reincarnated from the dead, more felons will have to found, more illegal immigrants will have to be transported to the polls and more democratic precincts will have to have OVER 100% voter turnout!

I forgot to add that polling place hours are to be extended to midnight in dem stongholds while those in repub districts must close promptly at 6:00 pm as the alpabet channels prematurly announce Kerry the winner.

Voting machine conspiracy...predictions

Back in May of this year, you were nearly spot on; you just had the party & candidate wrong! Republican employed every single thing you predicted, and they even put a cherry on top by claiming "Homeland Security" and hiding away the tabulation. Although, you were off on the immigrant thing; they took the mentally handicapped & elderly into the booths & helped them vote!

How many has seen the 30 min. preview of the comming Documentary on www.votergate.tv?

How many has seen the movie from www.votescam.com ?

Maybe a fresh injection of new information is what this thread needs?
There will be lots of hard facts to discuss afterwards....trust me!

Many of you will watch in disbelief...
The sad state of our world is depressing, so we need to inform ourselves and take some responsibility.
They can only win if we believe them when they explain why 95% of the population can't win over the 0,01% of those in power who manipulate for their own gain.

Are we going to let them manipulate us? There are those who already has done the hard work of investigating and documenting it in movies and books, all we have to do is to watch and read, and react!


sincerly

Cade

Originally posted by Phoenix

Hold on a minute

Its way to premature to make these claims anyway and just serves to stir people up.

soficrow, taking those words of mine completely out of context serves no purpose - I

Phoenix - my point is that your argument is used to silence discussion about everything from climate change to epidemic health crises, on the grounds that open discourse might cause panic or chaos.

I disagree with your argument whether it's applied only to this issue or to other concerns (Ie., "in" context or out).

I believe in education, making mistakes and taking responsibility.



.

4000 extra votes. 88 counties. 352,000 VOTES (or 7% points). the gahanna problem was that the software forgot to disperse them around the county in the 1200 precincts. (3.2 votes per precinct easy to hide. 4000 in one precinct, a little harder.
This is why the exit polls were so far off. Lets find one of those Diebold programmers with a conscience.

Originally posted by soficrow

Phoenix - my point is that your argument is used to silence discussion about everything from climate change to epidemic health crises, on the grounds that open discourse might cause panic or chaos.

???? Actually I've not posted either for or against climate change nor epidemiology on ATS so I don't know where you come to that conclusion unless you are making assumptions like many others in this post.

At least BT and others are posting facts as they see them which is more than I see in your contribution.

Back on the subject, I still think e-voting is a bad thing but I also think the claims of a stolen election are not warranted at this time.

Turn the tables and think what your efforts would be then neo-liberals, can you guys honestly say you would be just as adament to prove this point or would you become silent as I suspect.

E-voting is something that any political party, organization, individual or for that matter an outside interest could corrupt and I have said earlier in this thread that all should contact their representitives about this matter.

The rub I have right now is that this issue IS being used as a vendetta politically by liberals to discredit Bush when the statistical numbers do not support your case - my gosh even the losing candidate, his party and pundits say so - what more do you want.

Yes its a vendetta waged by a vocal and extreme minority that has latched onto this in a self-serving attempt to validate rejected political dogma.

Its cheaper and easier to get a therapist as Floridians have recently discovered.

PS: BT my "proud neo" tag line was in honor of a post response by and to RANT, I've been a Republican conservative for 32 years and can hardly be considered "neo" or "new" as you are bent on making me out to be.

Just wanted to clear that up. Go! PNAC

Like Jo. Stalin said:

it doesn't matter who gets the most voes, it matters who counts the votes

(or something close to that)

Irregularities, scams and mistakes happen in many elections. I just read the Votescam web site and nothing those guys posted is unbelievable.

Years back, when I thought I was a political hack, it took one election for me to realize this problem (vote scams) is not going to be corrected from within.

� pints of wine or whiskey, a few bucks, mandatory rides to the polls, assistance voting, open machines, pre-filled ballots and the all important vote count.

This time (I always vote) poll officials waived their friends in without registration, allowed assisted voting, had no booths and very few tables, talked back and forth about candidates and issues and generally ran a -anyone can come in- poll.

I ALWAYS complain when things are not what they should be (world according to Garp) and write letters to politicians and the media. It is not frustrating.

The first 15 years were frustrating.

Voting is more important than electing someone. Voting tells elected officials and bureaucrats that you matter, that you vote! Go see one to ask for something. If you have voted chances are someone with authority will assist you. If you have not voted then you'll be lucky to be given a brochure.

With the American election over- reflect and search out what can be done for the next time.

*always carry a camera

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Like Jo. Stalin said:

it doesn't matter who gets the most voes, it matters who counts the votes

(or something close to that)

Irregularities, scams and mistakes happen in many elections. I just read the Votescam web site and nothing those guys posted is unbelievable.

Years back, when I thought I was a political hack, it took one election for me to realize this problem (vote scams) is not going to be corrected from within.

� pints of wine or whiskey, a few bucks, mandatory rides to the polls, assistance voting, open machines, pre-filled ballots and the all important vote count.

This time (I always vote) poll officials waived their friends in without registration, allowed assisted voting, had no booths and very few tables, talked back and forth about candidates and issues and generally ran a -anyone can come in- poll.

I ALWAYS complain when things are not what they should be (world according to Garp) and write letters to politicians and the media. It is not frustrating.

The first 15 years were frustrating.

Voting is more important than electing someone. Voting tells elected officials and bureaucrats that you matter, that you vote! Go see one to ask for something. If you have voted chances are someone with authority will assist you. If you have not voted then you'll be lucky to be given a brochure.

With the American election over- reflect and search out what can be done for the next time.

*always carry a camera

I'm happy to see that you took the time to read their website.

If just one of you order the VoteScam video and watch it, you will be so shocked that you will pass it around to your friends and family, and this is what I hope will happen.

They have it on camera, people pushing holes in ballots etc. the camera guy eventually get's thrown out of the building when they discover he is not "one of them".

This has been going on for more than 30 years! They spent 25 years to write the book.


If we don't take the time to comsume this information and react in a proper manner, I fear that all will soon be lost.


I'm thinking of putting that book and movie under the christmas tree this year, I don't know about you, but a strike for our democracy is as good a christmas gift as any.

Now, I live in Europe, so why do I care about US elections? Because either we are all free or none of us are free. We all breathe the same air according to one of your finest presidents, Kennedy. Wake up to the votescam, correct what has gone bad, and bring back the kind of leaders that used to get VOTED into the white house so that we all can look to america with respect and honor.

It's like Rammstein sings: We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, It's wunderbar !(check out the video for "Amerika".


Sincerly

Cade

Cade
I've ordered the (votescam) book and video!
Did the authors ever find out what Janet Reno said to Ellis Rubin?( at Queer Day)

Interesting that Rubin defended the Watergate burglars yet Reno spooked him so badly he dumped the authors of the book.

Good web site also. Interesting that those guys are from Taos (NM). Must have gone into hiding from Florida?

Great!

Let us all know what you think!

The watergate incident is not something I know much about I'm sorry to say. At that point in time I was a happy European who didn't care about anything political. The event that changed this was when Bush stole the election in 2000. I watched it all night, this really woke me up. Made me realize things were not as they seemed.

Then came 911 (FBI, CIA, MILITARY, WHITE HOUSE)
Then came this election (www.votergate.tv and www.votescam.com)

I'm awake now, how do we wake the rest?


Cade

Officials at the FBI, which oversees anti-terrorism activities in southern Ohio, said they received no information about a terror threat in Warren County.

"The FBI did not notify anyone in Warren County of any specific terrorist threat to Warren County before Election Day," FBI spokesman Michael Brooks said.

A spokeswoman for Ohio's top homeland security official, Public Safety Director Ken Morckel, knew of no heightened terror warning for either Warren County or any other Greater Cincinnati community on election night..

Cincinnati Enquirer

So then, on whose recommendation or information did the Republican Commissioner decide that the threat was a "10 on a scale of 1 to 10 in severity"? Not Homeland Security or the FBI....then who?

Originally posted by Bout Time
So then, on whose recommendation or information did the Republican Commissioner decide that the threat was a "10 on a scale of 1 to 10 in severity"? Not Homeland Security or the FBI....then who?

It's obvious to all intelligent individuals this whole election was a scam. The problem is that the candidate we know would have won a legitimate election, wants no part in exposing the scam. Even when addressing the questions we all have, Kerry's camp seems to be categorically saying the outcome is not in question, way before the votes were even counted. Doesn't that seem strange? To me it paints a clear picture, Kerry was not running to win, but to maintain the illusion of democracy.

Purloined from Bout's sig.

As democracy is perfected, the office of President represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 � 1956)

(the guy must have been psychic)

27jd what makes you think the Dems don't also have a little hiding to do? I agree with you on the illusion.

The election this year was similar to every election, lot's of wrong doing all around. Now when we all get little implants with chips and have to be scanned to vote then things will get - - - - better? J/k

My standard is to vote against the incumbent. In every race unless things government is acceptable I vote anti-incumbents. If there is no opponent I write one in.

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
27jd what makes you think the Dems don't also have a little hiding to do? I agree with you on the illusion.

I do think the Dems have some hiding to do, that's what I meant.

Originally posted by Bout Time
Officials at the FBI, which oversees anti-terrorism activities in southern Ohio, said they received no information about a terror threat in Warren County.

"The FBI did not notify anyone in Warren County of any specific terrorist threat to Warren County before Election Day," FBI spokesman Michael Brooks said.

A spokeswoman for Ohio's top homeland security official, Public Safety Director Ken Morckel, knew of no heightened terror warning for either Warren County or any other Greater Cincinnati community on election night..

Cincinnati Enquirer

So then, on whose recommendation or information did the Republican Commissioner decide that the threat was a "10 on a scale of 1 to 10 in severity"? Not Homeland Security or the FBI....then who?

Your closing in on the truth...keep going.

Cade

Text Black

So this is American "Democracy", hardly democratic when all votes don't count, then the count is obfuscated, not transparent.
Why bother with the Presidential Primaries, and the wasted $Millions, when all you have to do is fiddle the vote count.
Why can't America with all its technological power, financial power or should I say ( financial debt?), why does it not have a truly Federal Election programme with the same rules and voting proceedures in all States.
The States could have different proceedures for State voting, as it would appear that the States would be violently opposed to any watering down of State power, but surely the same Federal rules could apply to the Sates as well.
The current situation only leaves the present "democratic"? system liable to all sorts of possible fraud, glaring mistakes, and the devlopement of conspiracies.

What you actually expected them to count votes?!?!?

Thats almost like giving the people a say in who runs the show.... what a silly idea!


Democracy... yeah right.

Democracy could kick the American public between the legs and no one would notice.